ABC News - Understanding the 'Guy With the Gun' (Open Carry)

[RamboLiberal]

Ed Levine said he remembers when people at his favorite restaurants used to know him as "the guy with the gun."

It's a label that's faded, the Virginia man said, as more people like him have chosen to openly carry their handguns while running everyday errands. Levine said he carries his 45-caliber pistol nearly everywhere he goes, from his local Starbucks to his community pool, and he rarely draws attention.

"It's like putting on your socks -- you do it every day," he said. "Someone doesn't run up to you and say, 'Oh, you're wearing socks.'"

The practice of "open carry" at retail stores -- carrying a handgun in plain sight -- has come under fire from anti-gun activists in recent weeks after open carry proponents tested California's gun laws by bringing their guns with them to several Golden State stores, including Starbucks.

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While the Starbucks controversy may soon force more businesses to confront their gun-carry policies -- retail analyst Lori Wachs says that, until now, most chains have opted to avoid the hot button issue -- it's also raising the profile of the open carry movement and groups like OpenCarry.org.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/gun-owners-tout-open-carry-rights/story?id=9981534

[wtmusic]

1. Socks don't kill people, people do.

:silly:

[rrneck]

2. Yes.

If there's a foot in the sock.


http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html#table2_9

Murder Victims
by Weapon, 2000-2004

Weapons 2000 2001 1 2002 2003 2004
Total 13,230 14,061 14,263 14,465 14,121
Total firearms: 8,661 8,890 9,528 9,659 9,326
Handguns 6,778 6,931 7,294 7,745 7,265
Rifles 411 386 488 392 393
Shotguns 485 511 486 454 507
Other guns 53 59 75 76 117
Firearms, type not stated 934 1,003 1,185 992 1,044
Knives or cutting instruments 1,782 1,831 1,776 1,828 1,866
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 617 680 681 650 663
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) 2 927 961 954 962 933
Poison 8 12 23 9 11
Explosives 9 4 11 4 1
Fire 134 109 103 170 114
Narcotics 20 37 48 44 76
Drowning 15 23 20 17 15
Strangulation 166 153 145 184 155
Asphyxiation 92 116 100 131 105
Other weapons or weapons not stated 799 1,245 874 807 856

[SteveM]

26. Wait, you should take a whiff of mine.

Are you, what's the expression, "living in fear" of this guy?

[hlthe2b]

3. So, do concealed carry advocates on DU also favor open carry?

It might make an interesting poll, but for now, I'll just ask?

[slackmaster]

5. I am in favor of having the option to carry openly

I have that option, but don't exercise it myself.

[TPaine7]

9. Carrying openly is THE right.

As Heller made clear, and as understood when the Second and Fourteenth were written, there is no Constitutional right to carry concealed. Concealed carry permits are not unconstitutional.

Ultimately, New York, Chicago, and California can force you to carry openly, but not to go unarmed. And that is where the Court should land when all the dust settles, IMHO.

[PavePusher]

11. I disagree.

The Second does not state a preferred method of carry, it does not even imply one. It states, "shall not be infringed", which when contrasted with the Tenth, "reserved to the States respectively, or to the people", indicates that the choice should be left to the individual, as the State(s) have no proven basis to preempt restricting method of carry.

'Course I could be way out in left field on this.

[TPaine7]

12. I'm basing that on historical context.

Similar to my understanding that the First Amendment was never intended to cover slander, perjury, illegal military orders, criminal conspiracies, threats of illegal violence, disclosure of military secrets or the like. The First does not mention any of those exceptions, but they are and were well understood.

Similarly, the Second didn't need to mention that concealed carry was not being protected, IMO. The Court seems to have followed this logic in Heller.

I would agree that changing times have changed public perception of concealed carry--it is no longer associated with assassinations (or with very unusual legitimate circumstances)--but that has nothing to do with the right intended to be protected by the ratifiers of the Fourteenth or Second Amendments.

[Statistical]

14. Historically concealing a firearm was considered a crime.

If you are honest what do you have to hide.
There are laws on record making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon as far back as prior to ratification of the Bill of Rights.

Rights aren't absolute. Banning hiding weapons has never been found unconstitutional and there are centuries of opportunity to challenge it.

A little history.

VA never "legalized" open carry. Open carry has always been legal because laws don't define what is legal rather they define what is illegal and bearing arms has never been illegal in VA.

However for a period of time carrying a weapon concealed was illegal so when CCW laws were passed many people accepted that as the "normal" despite the fact that open carry requires no license and has existed as long as the Commonwealth has.

[X_Digger]

8. I'm with slackmaster on this one..

I couldn't see me doing it all the time, but having the option would be nice. (Having to change one's wardrobe to concealed carry on one's body isn't fun, especially for an old fart who never sets foot in a mall or clothing store if he doesn't absolutely have to.)

[mvccd1000]

10. Absolutely.

It's the only way I carry, in fact. I'm waiting for Arizona to pass "Constitutional Carry" before I conceal.

It just grinds me too much that I'm required to pay the government for a permit to put my jacket on when the evening cools off. I refuse.

[benEzra]

13. I believe people should have the choice, but it's not a choice I would often make.

I much prefer discreet carry, for multiple reasons. I prefer not to be an object of others' focus while in public, and prefer to stay in the background of people's awareness (the "gray man" thing); if I do find myself in a threatening situation, I want at least some element of tactical surprise on my side, instead of giving an attacker the ability to plan around my defenses; and if one open carries, one pretty much has to use a retention holster and compatible belt and dress around it.

Having said that, I have open carried in the woods before, and would open carry at a gun rights rally where legal if I thought it were helpful (circumstances would dictate that choice) or where required by law.

One thing that many people miss about the California open carry movement is that in most of California, the only way to get a concealed carry license is to become a close personal friend of the sheriff, make large donations to the sheriff's campaign, or accrue enough wealth/power/fame that the sheriff wants to kiss up to you. For everyone else, it's open carry of an unloaded firearm, or nothing.

Another interesting bit of trivia---the Mulford Act, which bans open carry of loaded firearms in California, was passed by the conservatives and signed by then-governor Ronald W. Reagan, at the time the most anti-gun governor in CA history. The intent was, of course, to mollify paranoid whites by removing lawfully carried guns from those icky "wrong color" hands. :eyes:



After all, only rich white people should be allowed to own guns, which is why the Brady Campaign and others support the right to own $2000 skeet shotguns and high-zoot big-game hunting rifles but not inexpensive small-caliber carbines, and why California ended up with some of the harshest gun laws in the nation.

[hlthe2b]

16. What is the point of open carrying an unloaded firearm?

re: your comment that in California, "for everyone else, it's open carry of an unloaded firearm, or nothing."

What is the point of open carrying an unloaded firearm? (if the point is self-defense, I guess you'd have the gun with you (and presumedly the ammunition where you could get to it, but it certainly wouldn't seem like a ready means of defense :shrug:)

[Abq_Sarah]

18. For many people

It's preferable to no defense. It really doesn't take that much time to unholster a pistol and pop a magazine in the well or speedload a revolver.

[benEzra]

21. Giving the finger to the "Caliban," perhaps?

Reminding Sacramento that not all noncriminal gun owners have been driven out of the state yet? An act of (legal) defiance against the puritanical gun-haters that run the state?



An unloaded magazine-fed firearm with magazines on the person does have at least some potential defensive utility, but I suspect this is as much about speaking out as it is about self-defense (perhaps more so).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. People often forget the racist roots of gun control

[TheWraith]

28. +100.

"I much prefer discreet carry, for multiple reasons. I prefer not to be an object of others' focus while in public, and prefer to stay in the background of people's awareness"

While I don't oppose people being able to open carry, personally it's not something I would prefer to do. (Not that it's an issue for me, being illegal in NY.) There are too many situations where carrying openly would attract too much attention, and places where it's inappropriate. Last summer I attended a political event where there was a decent sized crowd of angry teabaggers being held out at the road by the local police--if I'd owned a pistol, I might well have carried it just for protective reasons. But I also didn't want to be wandering around an event featuring a United States Senator with a pistol on my hip.

[Abq_Sarah]

17. Open carry is generally the rule

Instead of the exception when it comes to firearms law.

I don't open carry because it freaks out a certain percentage of the population and makes non-gun owners view you with suspicion. It's really kind of silly because someone out on the street with a properly holstered firearm is not likely to be a threat as opposed to the person with a pistol shoved down their pants without a holster. While it is my right, I'd rather carry concealed because it prevents misunderstanding and resentment. For me it's just not worth the hassle of having to educate the ignorant.

[Euromutt]

20. I support the principle (and I'm broadly in agreement with TPaine7)

The way I see it, for various reasons, the government cannot require a license for a private citizen to carry a firearm for self-defense, meaning that government has to permit a form of unlicensed carry. Government can require a permit for--or completely ban--either open or concealed carry, but then the other option has be left legal without a permit.

All other things being equal, I'd rather open carry be the unlicensed option, because few (if any) people with nefarious intent will avail themselves of it. The reason handguns are the preferred firearm for violent criminals is because it can be concealed; similarly, short-barreled rifles and shotguns are heavily regulated under the National Firearm Act of 1934 because they can be concealed.

I'm not inclined to carry openly myself, but I have no issue with people who do. One of leading lights of the open carry movement in Washington state is Lonnie Wilson; Lonnie is gay, and at some point he decided he was sick and tired about having to hide any part of his identity from anyone, be it his sexual orientation or the fact that he carries for self-protection. And more power to him, I say.

[oneshooter]

24. In Texas there is no open carry

I have nothing again it, but personally I prefer concealed carry.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. You must really get around... assuming, of course, your information is firsthand. n/t

[cayanne]

7. Guns don't scare me

Some people do.

[WheelWalker]

15. +1 X 10 to the 99th

[Katya Mullethov]

22. That will show

At that power setting , is it even possible to maintain bladder control ? That has got to be like getting hit with a bull primer !

[WheelWalker]

25. It is not. I am easily overcome

by my passion for the truth as it is revealed to me. Diapers are.

[benEzra]

23. Wow, given that there are only ~10^80 atoms in the observable universe...

That's some serious post rec'ing, there... :hi:

[WheelWalker]

27. There's more to the picture, Than meets the eye.

Rock and roll can never die... Hey hey, my, my...

Out of the blue, and into the black.....