Non-NRA firearm training?

[gorfle]

So I've joined my local chapter of Students for Concealed Carry, and we are considering having all of our members obtain some kind of "official" or "professional" training to lend legitimacy to our group.

To avoid partisan issues, we would like to get official training from someone other than the NRA. But the NRA is the only certification I know of.

Does anyone know of any other options?

[MineralMan]

1. Without knowing where you are, it's impossible to make a

recommendation. However, I understand the military offers firearms training to young folks, and they even pay you for it. That'd be my recommendation. Let me know your city, and I'll give you the number for the recruiting office there.

[John N Morgan]

2. Go down to the Army recruiters office ... they give weapons training

Anything else is just wanna-bee

[HillbillyBob]

5. So are you a Vet? I am

Or are you one of those who 'Service is fine for everyone, but me' wannabes?

[benEzra]

12. Most MOS's won't get much civilian-applicable pistol training...

and you darn sure won't get much on civil self-defense law even in a combat arms MOS. But you knew that, right?

Military pistol training and tactics, outside of a few specialized units, is generally inferior to the training that is available on the civilian/LEO side. That's because the pistol in the military is primarily treated as a last-tier weapon issued to REMF, is generally carried chamber-unloaded and unconcealed, and is employed under military rules of engagement, not civilian self-defense law.

[Statistical]

20. When I was in Iraq we carried both M-4 and M-9 as backup in a drop holster.

The M-9 didn't make me feel safe at all as we are required to carry ball ammo. I guess in a pinch using a whole magazine might do something.

The irony is we got a lot more attention drawing a pistol than we did from raising M-4 or even having turret gunner yell from behind the Ma Deuce.

The respect/attention came from:
a) Iraqi's see lots of heavy weaponry every day. There is no "holster" for M-4 so it is out in the open. Drawing the M-9 was something different and usually indicated urgency.
b) Saddam was cheap. Pistol ammo is cheap. Pistol was preferred weapon of Republican guard for executions.

So it isn't just REMF (or Fobbits) that carry sidearm.

Still I agree with everything you are saying military training on pistols tends to be limited to shoot silhouettes at 3m to 10m and some walking while shooting. Not exactly cutting edge defensive stuff. Generally in military if it comes down to engaging the enemy with the M-9 a whole host of shit already went bad that day.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

22. wrong reply. delete. n/t

[PavePusher]

27. Well, that's nicely inflammatory.

Try not to be an ass. Try real hard.

[jeepnstein]

3. Appleseed is an option.

I think they're NRA affiliated but the politics gets left at the door. It's all about shooting with them. Even going CMP will eventually land you with a tie to the NRA. CMP is a great program and you should really look into it for your group.

You could also go to a training facility like Lethal Force Institute. Actually I think LFI comes to you as a sort of traveling road show. It's really hard to find any training that doesn't have some element of NRA involvement because that's what they did before they got on the PAC money raising gravy train. The only other certifications I can think of that don't have NRA ties would be a state's police academy.

[HillbillyBob]

4. I don't know where you are , but in NC to get a concealed

it is a course given by the local county sheriff.
You can call them and see who gives lessons that is not NRA connected.
AHSA is the 'opposite' of NRA, its a dem based gun group.http://www.huntersandshooters.com/

[Statistical]

8. AHSA is not a guns rights group. It is astroturf of the highest degree.

Democratic candidates in "pro-gun" states have publicly rejected endorsement of AHSA.

[gorfle]

11. I can find no training or educational services on their web site.

I went to the AHSA web site, but I can't find any mention of any training or educational services offered.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

24. That's because gun control groups aren't concerned about gun safety.

ironic, huh?
AHSA - A rose by any other name...

[Statistical]

6. Hard to beat the national recognition of NRA training.

The instructors tend to care about what they are doing (nobody gets rich being an NRA instructor).
They have a "brand" to protect so they tend to respond to complaints quickly.
NRA and NRA-ILA are to separate organizations (required for tax purposes) so any funds will go to NRA and not NRA-ILA.

While I understand your reluctance to support the NRA it is unlikely you will find a national training program with as much recognition as NRA. If you are training up a lot of student you could screen trainer ahead of time. Tell him/her you expect the focus to be on firearms and safety and to leave political issues at the door. Some may buck but most won't. There may be more than one NRA course offered in your area.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/index.asp (search engine for courses offered)

If you are 100% set against NRA training I assume your state requires some training to get CCW right?
Check their requirements. That might point you in another direction.

[Statistical]

9. One other thing...

It isn't entry level training but I consider it very useful as a supplement.

See if you have IDPA chapter locally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Defensive_Pistol_Association

Shooting defensive pistol competition is the best thing IMHO to get comfortable and confident about carrying weapon defensively.

[gorfle]

13. Thanks.

I'm not against supporting the NRA (I just renewed my membership today), I just know that pushing for CCW student carry on a college campus will be all the more difficult with such a perceived-partisan organization tie such as the NRA.

As I understand it, alabama does not require any training for CCW permits, only a background check and some money.

I'm considering becoming an NRA instructor myself. But it's a bit expensive at $275 a class.

[doc03]

16. I took the NRA course and the instructor had to get in

all his political spin. I just kept my mouth shut since I figured I was the only Democrat in the group.

[visigoth]

18. That's unfortunate.

I'm an NRA accredited instructor and I really try to avoid those conversations. In fact during my instructor training course they really tried to impress upon us the need to stick to the facts.

[X_Digger]

19. And my NRA certified instructor didn't talk politics..

And heck, I'm in Texas, heh.

[RichS]

28. That's unfortunate...

As an NRA-certified instructor myself, my concern is that my students absorb and understand the material, ESPECIALLY the rules for safe firearms handling. I'm happy to talk about my views on firearms, concealed carry, and politics in general with my students outside of the classroom setting; but there is no side of politics served alongside my course material.

[shadowrider]

25. I got NRA training and politics never, ever came up

It was about gun safety, period.

[Abq_Sarah]

30. The fact is

NRA certification has a "value" that surpasses most other cert programs. It's recognizable by every state because the instructors are required to adhere to a strict training standard.

And no.. I have never taken any NRA certified course including instructor level that was "political". We're into training, not indoctrination. ;)

[slackmaster]

7. Two options come to mind, though neither will necessary be devoid of NRA connections

- Your local police or Sheriff's department,

- Local shooting ranges often offer training. One in my area employees a few retired law enforcement officers as trainers.

[benEzra]

10. What state are you located in? (n/t)

[gorfle]

14. alabama. n/t

[Old Codger]

15. I am not

A fan of the NRA but I would recommend their training, basically they have the most experience and are the most widely accepted, in something as serious as this you want the best you can get... Most instructors are going to be NRA certified, many gun clubs offer training classes from intermediary to advanced self protection courses to law enforcement level.

[mvccd1000]

17. Have you visited OCDO?

The OpenCarryDotOrg (OCDO) forum at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/ has a Campus Concealed Carry group, as well as groups for each state. I know a couple of people here also post there (Hi PP!), and there is a lot of good advice to be had on that site.

[Remmah2]

21. Campus Public Safety

On my campus police force/public safety, there is a full time LEO training person. He and I regularly talk and he's offered to take me shooting. Is there a training person as such on your campus. For liability purposes they'd have to do it as a private citizen, non the less it might be worth asking there. FWIW.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

23. I've atended two NRA pistol courses (one for ccw). Neither was partisan in the least.

Both classes were very affordable too. under $50.

A good protion of the instruction was watching videos and reading legal material. The videos are policically correct.
The actual instructor protion covered holster laws, holster selection, firearm handling, and legal stories.
The instructor could have been a teabagger or a harline liberal... I have no idea. Gun courses can be very apolitical.

The right wing talk usually occurs during breaks or at the water cooler from other class members.

[oneshooter]

26. The question that has not yet been asked is the most important

What type of "official or professional training" are you looking for?

Basic Safety

Basic Shooting

Basic care and maintenance

The NRA is THE best training available, it is, despite stories to the contrary, given in a non political way. The cornerstones of the philosophy is safe handling, safe use, care and maintenance, and the right to own. The NRA teaches more police officers, security officers, and yes even military personnel than any other organization. Its training is recognized world wide.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

And yes I am a NRA certified trainer in rifle and handgun.

[aikoaiko]

29. Check out Continuing Education on campus or Local Sheriff. `

I received my basic handgun training certification from campus police via continuing education.

I hear our local sheriff puts on training sessions too.

Check out a local commercial range.

All these folks might be NRA members or trained, but the programs wouldn't be NRA.

Of course, the NRA training programs are pretty good.

[Pavulon]

31. Xe, gunsite,others offer extensive sidearm training. It is VERY expensive.

1500 ish a person plus $300 - 500 or so for 9mm 1000 - 1500 rounds.

[proteus_lives]

32. Google it!

Local ranges often hold safety classes. Try YMCAs, Community centers and civilian/LEO outreach programs.

[Lurks Often]

33. I suspect that you are going end up having to using a NRA trainer

If you are looking for someone to teach the group and provide documentation that you passed a certain level of training, then the NRA is likely to be your only choice. I am sure that there are a number of NRA instructors available in your area, just make it a point to mention before picking one to mention that the course needs to be non-political. It is also almost certainly the least expensive of the available options. Most of the shooting schools start at $500 per person and up and the person is responsible for supplying his/her own weapon, ammo and related equipment.

IDPA does not "teach" range safety as it's primary impetus, it's required of course, but IDPA exists to offer shooters a chance to compete in match in something approaching "real-life" conditions.

I have taken Lethal Force I, which is more of a course on when you are legally justified in shooting, along with the likely legal aftermath. I certainly recommend the course, but it is VERY serious, especially the classroom instruction. There are other well regarded private shooting schools around the country, but the impression I get from reviewing their various websites, is that a certain level of preexisting experience or competence is expected or even required.

To put it in college terms, NRA Basic Handgun is English 101 with the various shooting schools and competitive organizations being 300 or 400 level courses, with some of the advanced classes at the shooting schools being master level or above work.

Of course, like any analogy it goes only so far, since while English 101 may be a mandatory prerequisite, NRA Basic Handgun is only a strongly recommended prerequisite.

To give you a basis on where I come from, I shoot competitively at the local and sometimes the state level (mostly plate shoots, bowling pin matches and some IDPA/IPSC style stuff) and have been for about 15 years now and there is a world of difference between a basic safety course and competing (which is a lot of fun).