Zero tolerance--5 yo expelled for making gun with hand and pointing at ground

[TPaine7]

YAKIMA, Wash.- Manuel Alvarez eats breakfast and gets ready for school. He's eager but nervous. He was expelled Monday from Barge Lincoln Elementary for making a gun with his hands. His mom says it's a hand gesture that could have easily been corrected.

...

"I got a call from the School saying he's not raising his hand or speaking up. He's scared after we talked about not doing any gestures, he probably doesn't want to to do it because that could be a gesture. It might get him pulled out for two days," said Hurtado.   

Manuel's mom doesn't see anything wrong with her son putting his hands like this and shooting down at the ground. She doesn't think it poses an immediate threat to the school or Manuel's classmates. We took the issue to School District employees and asked them about their policy.

"When students are at school they should be concerned about learning….safety shouldn't be a concern at school, we have a zero tolerance policy," said Dr. John Irion, from the Yakima School District. 

Source: http://www.kndu.com/global/story.asp?s=11979866

Manuel's mom is trying to clear his name--she still thinks he's a good kid. How cliche.

[my2sense]

1. Interesting how we have "Zero Tolerance"

in schools for even making gestures, yet we have laws allowing folks to buy all types of firearms and in some parish in Louisiana the sheriff is passing out firearms and basically forming himself some type of damn possee lookigng out for "terra-ists".......

We seem to be living in la-la land. We glorify violence in our advertising/media, then when the kids mimick this violence we act shocked?

Bossier Parish Sheriff Larry Deen, who's banded together a citizen militia of ex-cops to ready the parish for counter-terrorism, natural disasters and general doomsday scenarios, is now citing intel of local terrorist "cells" as partial justification for its "Operation Exodus." Ed Baswell, a spokesman for the Bossier Parsih Sheriff's Office, told national news blog Talking Points Memo that while 9-11 was the original inspiration for instituting the program, there has since been evidence of Islamic terrorist activity closer to home.
"We understand, based on some intelligence that we've collected over the last year, year and a half, that there have been cells and people operating even within our parish that have been trained as terrorists or went overseas to be trained as terrorists. So this is not something that's far, far away. This is something that is a possibility here in Bossier Parish."

Baswell told TPM the sheriff's office worked in conjunction with the FBI on tracking any terrorist activity. He then added: "We didn't get the impression they were plotting an attack. We got the impression they were in training or headed for training overseas. We don't believe in any way shape or form that there is any sort of imminent threat.

"Islamic terrorists have been in and out," he added. "And we've had intelligence information that confirmed that for us." The FBI has yet to confirm its involvement.

Deen's office announced "Operation Exodus" earlier this week and has gathered approximately 100 volunteers, a rag tag collection of retired police and patriotic jingoists (as is evidenced by the video below) to sign on for hand-to-hand combat training and other preparations.

more here: http://www.theind.com/news/5832-miltia-forming-sheriff-cites-terrorist-cells-in-bossier-parish

[shadowrider]

2. and in some parish in Louisiana the sheriff is passing out firearms

Would you care to provide a link that proves he's simply passing out firearms instead of making sure these citizens have gone through NICS making sure these firearms are legally obtained?

I'll wait

[my2sense]

5. Google is your friend

I have no idea what he checked before he began arming his "citizens" with firearms. I've provided a link to the story and have since started it's own thread. I suggest you post what ever additional info you have on the topic.

[shadowrider]

6. The people he's "passing firearms" to

have been carefully chosen and undergo training. The first sentence of your OP seems to indicate anyone that wants a weapon just needs to go to the sheriffs office and "git a gun".

From the article:

quote
Nearly nine years later, Deen put out a call to prospective volunteers, and "Operation Exodus" finally became a reality. Some 300 of Bossier Parish's 110,000 residents responded, and of those, 200 have been chosen for training. The first classes began this week.
unquote

Article here:
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/lousiana-sheriff-larry-deen-forms-operation-exodus-paramilitary-group/19385750

[my2sense]

7. Thank you for your contribution

I don't understand how this quote proves anything about the "volunteers" qualifications or backgrounds. Have they had psychological testing? Are they afficliated with any hate/militia groups? Do they suffer any type of severe mental illness, etc.

[shadowrider]

8. I would bet my bottom dollar

they are thoroughly, thoroughly checked before gaining approval to join (it's not a militia, more like un-deputized deputies in case of local emergency) this group. I'd also bet they receive thorough training, after all, you just don't grab a .50 and start shooting without knowing what you're doing.

[my2sense]

9. Based on the incompetence

I see everyday in both the private sector and public sector, I wouldn't bet a dime that anything is being done to properly check these poeple out. I guess I'm just expecting the worse....it seems to be the norm these days.

I hope you are right.

[shadowrider]

10. Your opinion, mine differs

no harm, no foul. :)

[pipoman]

51. There are only 104,000 population in the parish

this isn't New Orleans, it is a small county. The sheriff in a small county such as this most likely personally knows each person recruited or can very quickly find out about that person. Again, if you are coming from an urban perspective, it may be hard to understand how things work in a small, rural parish in Louisiana.

[FourScore]

39. I can't help but wonder how people would react if it were 195 black men. eom

[rhett o rick]

37. How could you have missed it. They were carefully choosen. You feel better now? nm

[Hissyspit]

21. The 195 old white guys out of 200 have been carefully chosen. LOL

By the right-wing loon sheriff.

It's called 'Operation Exodus' because Obama is the "pharoah" and this nut-case and all the good "Christians" are going to "protect" us and lead us to the Promised Land with their 50-caliber machine gun mounted to a pick-up truck.

Good god...

[shadowrider]

26. I see nothing in the article to indicate the sheriff is right wing

Could you point it out to me please?

[Hissyspit]

28. "Operation Exodus" nt

[shadowrider]

34. So?

Since when do democrats not believe in God or the Bible? Simply the name of the operation does not provide proof of your claim he's right wing.

[Hissyspit]

36. I'm sorry. I meant to say survivalist goofball. My bad.

You win the argument. I concede. Bad choice of words. And Operation Exodus is in NO WAY a name choice full of connotations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x440060

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/gun-rights_extremists_praise_operation_exodus_sher.php

[shadowrider]

41. It wasn't an argument

It's a discussion with no winners or losers (My ex-wife kept serious score on all "disagreements", I just don't do that).

You may very well be right, who knows. He's just a guy who is doing what he thinks is best for his Parish.

[FourScore]

40. Yep. I agree. n/t

[Wilber_Stool]

49. Yeah, I saw a story about it

on my picture machine a few days ago.He was teaching some geezers to lift one foot off the floor. I think they were supposed to be kicking something. Several of them seemed to be doing pretty well. Except for the kicking part.

[Fire1]

4. Double standard, hypocritical or whatever. This country is

crazy as hell.

[TPaine7]

19. "kids mimick this violence"

If a teen or an adult pointed a finger "gun" at another person that could be a theat of violence. If a 5 yo pointed a finger "gun" at someone, that could be an immitation of violence.

But a 5 yo pointing an imaginary gun AT THE GROUND?

IMO, that is neither a threat nor an immitation of violence.

[burrfoot]

30. I'm with you here-

if anything, I'd give this kid an Eddie the Eagle award for keeping his muzzle pointed in a safe direction!

[reggie the dog]

31. as a child I played cops and robbers

we had toy guns, at school, during lunch..... none of us ever shot up anything.....

[Katya Mullethov]

47. We made rubber band rayguns with a -BANDSAW-

Had to stand on a wooden coke flat .

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. Gotta prevent the invisible blood on the playgrounds, amirite?

n/t

[PavePusher]

50. I just don't get it with the anti-gun folks.

First they bitch about people not being part of a 'militia', then they bitch about people organizing 'militias'.

There's just no friggen' pleasing some people.

[Mz Pip]

3. Yeah, those finger bullets

are a real safety hazard. :eyes:

[TPaine7]

11. Especially when "fired" into the ground.

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. Well, it *could* have been even more of a hazard...

...he could have been going "pew, pew, pew" while doing so!

[X_Digger]

24. *gasp* Lock him up in a mental institution..

.. obviously the next Columbine in the making.

:sarcasm:

[Xenotime]

12. CPS might want to look at Manuel Alvarez's mom too.

She "doesn't see anything wrong," and "doesn't think it poses an immediate threat," is a reckless argument that calls for investigation.

[shadowrider]

13. How can making a gun with your hand

And "firing" it into the ground represent an immediate threat that would cause the mother to be put under investigation?

Just curious

[TPaine7]

15. Methinks the answer is... "sarcasm" n/t

[shadowrider]

17. Hard to tell sometimes

[TPaine7]

43. True enough

Many anti-gun arguments are impossible to mock for that very reason, being so inane as stated.

[TPaine7]

14. You're right! She's almost certainly an unfit mother. n/t

[SteveM]

18. Obviously a member of a terrorist cellulite.

[Katya Mullethov]

35. That's a looong and bumpy ....... if not slippery slope .

[cowman]

38. You are

absolutly nuts. My daughter was handling & shooting guns at age 5 and she is one hell of a shot. She is now a Police Officer. As a society, we have become way to politically correct. CPS, what, are you, nuts?

[proteus_lives]

46. Wow.

That's foolish.

What did the kid or his mom do wrong?

[madrchsod]

16. "zero intelligence"

it`s really difficult for so called adults today to make a judgement, so the best thing to do is make no judgement at all!

i guess "common sense" is a thing of the past.

[oneshooter]

23. It is not a thing of the past

It just ain't as common as it used to be.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Leftist Agitator]

25. Good thing he didn't bring a squirt gun to school...

They'd have locked him up until he was 21.

[shadowrider]

27. I used to do that when I was little

and we'd have squirtgun fights during recess.

[reggie the dog]

32. me too back in the eighties

[WheelWalker]

45. Squirt guns don't squirt people, kids do. n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nannah]

33. yakima is a community with significant gang activity

there are many gang shootings. perhaps that has intensified people's reactions and fears. i googled finger guns and interestingly there is quite a history of finger guns being considered evidence of violent intent.

[TPaine7]

42. Finger guns are serious threats when gangbangers point them at judges,

not when a 5 yo points one at the ground.

[nannah]

44. my personal opinion is the expulsion was inappropriate

however, the fear of random gun violence is high in yakima. the article below is from 2/24/2010

http://www.kimatv.com/news/local/85313147.html

By Stacy Lilienthal
Watch the story
"YAKIMA COUNTY --- Violence is still the number one thing killing kids in the Yakima Valley. It's a problem police and parents say they're trying to prevent.

Too often police have picked up the gun shells, while families pick up the pieces. The Yakima County Coroner said of the kids younger than 18 killed since last January, most were from violence like gun and stab wounds.

"I think we're all realizing that this isn't something we can enforce our way out of," Yakima Police Lt., Mike Merryman said. Police have been going into schools and mentoring them after school to prevent it. But there have been 13 kids murdered in the last year. That's about the same as the year before. "The message is to make that impact early on in a kid’s life so that they make good decisions."


I am still not condoning the expulsion because it draws attention to the problem in ways i don't think are helpful. i think it is a response to the elevated fear levels. there is much to be learned and understood about how fear alters our response to situations and why it is such a useful tool to manipulate people.

[Katya Mullethov]

55. The over use of newspeek might make the problem seem confusing

As it isnt guncrime or gunviolence that they have a problem with .

[jody]

48. Parents should teach their children to point with the "middle" finger not the "index" finger.

[Euromutt]

52. Sometimes I find it hard to resist the thought that there's a conspiracy afoot

The object being to instil in future generations an idea that civil liberties count for naught, and can be violated on a whim if it's in the interest of "safety." As the parent of a three year-old, I'm perturbed by the trend among schools to adopt "zero tolerance" policies for every little thing, and to handle the slightest infraction with suspension, expulsion and arrest by law enforcement.

I get the feeling that if I pulled the stuff in an American elementary or middle school today that I pulled in primary school in England and the Netherlands thirty years ago, I'd be constantly suspended, if not worse. And I wasn't particularly a hell-raiser.

[AwakeAtLast]

53. I could get a kid suspended every day in my school with a rule like that

We have no tolerance for the behavior, but if we see it, we take care of it and move on.

[TPaine7]

54. There's really nothing to "take care of"...

the system is the entity with the problem, not the kid.

Pointing a finger "gun" at the ground is not a problem. Pointing it at another student isn't even a problem, unless it's done in actual anger as an actual threat--as opposed, for instance, to playing cops and robbers.

An insane system that treats kids playing cops and robbers as if they were a terrorist threat is the problem.

[JoeyT]

56. Good thing he wasn't thinking

about drugs when he did it, or they'd have called in the SWAT team.

The only thing Zero Tolerance is good for is making stupid adults happy by creating a system which requires no thought whatsoever.