IL: Concealed carry supporters see reason for optimism

[GreenStormCloud]

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/carry-25846-concealed-illinois.html

Illinois concealed carry advocates might have a chance of seeing legislation pass that would allow residents to carry hidden firearms.

Almost 8,000 people marched to the Capitol this week for Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day to show their support for such a measure, which has been brought up before by lawmakers only to usually die in committee.

SNIP

Rep. Dan Beiser, D-Alton, has co-sponsored House Bill 462 and Rep. John Bradley, D-Marion, has sponsored House Bill 245, both of which are concealed-carry bills.

The Illinois Sheriff's Association has passed a resolution supporting House Bill 245 (Family and Personal Protection Act) and this week, the House Agricultural Committee again approved House Bill 462.

Under both bills, concealed firearms would not be allowed inside bars, police stations, prisons, government offices, courthouses, airports, schools, riverboats, amusement parks, arenas, stadiums or churches.

However, the Beiser bill includes an amendment that might prove problematic for some businesses. It specifies that if a business keeps someone from carrying a gun in the establishment, the business owner would be liable for injuries in armed robberies to gun owners who are disarmed.

SNIP

The Greene County Board, for example, unanimously passed a resolution in August 2008 to place an advisory question on the ballot asking Greene County voters whether they wanted a concealed carry law enacted. Voters overwhelmingly voted yes.

[PavePusher]

1. Awesome spine on Beiser... on at least this issue.

I don't know the man from Adam.

However, I have to wonder why someone could be trusted in public with a firearm, but not in "airports, schools, riverboats, amusement parks, arenas, stadiums or churches".

No-one ever really explains that one.

[sharesunited]

2. Way too much gun love. Would hate to see us turn into Virginia.

Plagued with mass shootings is the last thing we need.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Mass shooting only happen in gun-free zones.

So CCW won't be an issue. We don't carry where it is illegal to carry. Only criminals do that, just as they do now.

[elleng]

8. Yea, like Great Britain.

[SteveM]

12. THAT explains all that kicking around in my gun cabinet.

Shotguns! Rifles! Pistols! Oh my! Never thought my deer rifle would have the hots for that old Stevens 311D. Ugh, miscegenation.

[oneshooter]

26. I finally had to separate my rifles.

American, French, and English battle rifles in one safe, and German, Japanese, and Italian rifles in another. Too much rattling around with the French and Italian rifles trying to surrender, and the English and German rifles ordering them not to.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Jackson1999]

35. Yeah, it would suck if Illinois were like Virginia

Murder rate in Illinois: 6.1 per 100,000

Murder rate in Virginia: 5.2 per 100,000

[Ildem09]

3. as long as they grant the empire of Chicago an exemption

I have qualms but not as many

[Ildem09]

4. just make FOID cards $1000 a piece renewed every other year

[X_Digger]

6. How about $1000 to vote?

Or $1000 to open a church? $1000 to stand on a street corner and demonstrate against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Pavulon]

10. I spent that on booze today.

for some friends. is that a problem for you? should we have to pay to play?

[SteveM]

14. One of the myriad Jim Crow solutions. This one had unintended consequences...

"...(Alabama's white sportsmen) asked for a resident license law taxing every gun not less than five dollars a year; for a shortened season, a bag limit, and a complete system of State wardens (to reduce unregulated hunting by blacks). Unfortunately, a lot of white farmers were in the same (economic) range as the blacks, and being hit, too, they raised a great outcry. The result was that the Alabama sportsmen got everything they asked for except the foundation of the structure they were trying to build, the high resident license or gun tax which alone could have shut out three dollar guns and saved the remnant of the game."

Our Vanishing Wildlife, William T. Hornaday, New York Zoological Society, 1913, p. 113

Some geese in Alabama didn't like what the gander got.

[cowman]

23. FOID card

Once again, I'm so glad I live in a state that trusts its citizens. Where I live, we don't even register our guns.

[bossy22]

18. chicago is about to lose its exemption from many gun related things

im predicting late june for this to happen

[Bold Lib]

5. Let the people of the state decide. I'm a

Texas resident and I said YES - on more than one occasion. Too bad Ann Richards did not get the message, otherwise we may never have had to deal with "W".

[PavePusher]

9. Sorry, I do not support the individual states deciding...

which Civil Rights they will support.

Would you support a state that decided, by popular vote, that they no longer wanted to abide by the 13th Amendment?

[jaxx]

11. 1/2 million dollars in start up costs

There is nothing set up in this bill to allow the ISP to receive funding from the Citizens Safety and Self Defense Trust Fund for costs associated with this system. Firearms & Information Resources Bureau (FIRB) would need the additional personnel and equipment: two additional personnel and equipment required to assist sheriffs for prohibiting issues (approximately $120,000.00 salary/benefits funding required). (1) FOID Mainframe and database modification = $350,000; (2) Application to apply development = $20,000; (3) 2 personnel = $120,000; Total Estimated Start Up Costs = $490,000.<< http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=462&GAID=10&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=40807&SessionID=76&GA=96


NO.

To start with IL is broke. We don't have 1/2m to placate the gun owners. They have their guns, carrying them around isn't necessary or wanted by those of us who don't own them. The idea of people running around with their concealed carries, just waiting to save the world from the bad guy....no thanks. I'll take my chances.

edited to add link

[shadowrider]

13. no thanks. I'll take my chances.

Then you won't mind if you're the victim of a violent crime and I, who happen to be carrying and have the ability to attempt to stop the crime and save you from who knows what, just walk on by thereby honoring your anti-gun position.

Just curious

[jaxx]

15. Yep, you're off the hook.

This isn't the fear factor and everyone isn't out to get the other guy. I'll take my chances.

[shadowrider]

16. You are entitled to your position

No harm, no foul

[jaxx]

17. Thank you.

I live in IL and have spoken to my rep. about this subject.

[armueller2001]

19. Just out of curiousity,

what is your major objection with allowing people the choice to exercise their rights after properly fingerprinted, background checked, and trained?

You do realize that CCW holders are over 5 times less likely to commit a violent crime than the general population, right?

[shadowrider]

21. You don't need to be fingerprinted here

A background check is required (NICS) but it's good for 5 years so no further checks in case I purchase another gun (I'm looking at a Taurus Judge for home defense. A shotgun in convenient revolver form).

There are no required training courses but I took one anyway since my PT140 is the first semi-auto I've owned (My previous were revolvers).

[jaxx]

24. My main objection is that I don't care to have every tom dick and harry

hiding a gun on themselves. Do I have any rights?

[PavePusher]

27. You do not have the "right" to infringe on the Rights of others.

You are welcome to try to Amend the Constitution...

And their bearing of arms in a legal and peaceful manner is not an infringement of your Rights.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary...?

[jaxx]

30. LOL

But you do?

[PavePusher]

32. I'm not sure what you are trying to say...

but I do note that your post is evidence-free.

[TPaine7]

37. Of course no he has no right to shoot you,

or to point a gun at you, or to use his weapon to threaten you--asuming that there is no defensive reason, of course.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. Yes, you have rights, but not the ones you think you do.

You do not have the right to demand that others surrender their rights to make you feel good.

Forty states now have shall-issue concealed carry, and it has not been a problem in any of them. What makes you think it will be a problem in Illinois?

[eqfan592]

40. Ummm, what right are you speaking of?

A right to "feel" safe by denying others the ability to effectively defend themselves? Newsflash, no such right exists.

[PavePusher]

22. Just to be intellectually consistent...

You should refuse aid from any armed police as well. They have a worse history than Citizens.

[jaxx]

25. This is where the gun people go wrong.

Now you're getting pushy and I'm not buying.

[PavePusher]

28. "Pushy"? How so?

I'm simply suggesting that you not be hypocritical.

Normally I do charge for that, but in your case, it's a freebie.

[TPaine7]

29. I don't get what's pushy

To be intellectually consistent
You should refuse aid from any armed police as well. They have a worse history than Citizens.


This makes a point based on data. It is a fact that citizens do better than police officers in defensive shootings. Tom, Dick and Harry are less likely to shoot a bystander, more likely to stop or kill the bad guy, and less likely to get hurt themselves than officer Smith. Those are the facts. Factually speaking, you are safer to be around one of Tom, Dick or Harry's defensive shootings than around a police officer's shooting.

Politely pointing out reality--even reality that is difficult for you to intuitively grasp or accept--is not pushy.

You give the distinct impression of being angry because your worldview is being challenged--NOT because you have any objective faults to pick with claims being made.

[jaxx]

31. You just got pushy again.

In trying to cyber-psychoanalyze me you have said "even reality that is difficult for you to intuitively grasp or accept" and "being angry because your worldview is being challenged". Unfortunately you are wrong to suggest I'm an idiot and that your worldview is better than mine.

[PavePusher]

33. He provided evidence that he assumed you were not aware of.

Or perhaps did not want to accept.

I guess for some, fact-based debate is now "being pushy".

Facinating. Something I didn't know before.

See? We're all learning something here.

[TPaine7]

34. I don't "push" logic.

I do highly recommend it, though.

I also accept everone's absolute right to reject it.

[TPaine7]

38. I said nothing that remotely implies that you are an idiot.

Many of the consequences of relativity are impossible for me to grasp intuitively. I do not therefore conclude that I am an idiot. Nor do I reject the evidence of reality; on the contrary, I conform my beliefs to reality.

And worldviews that comply with reality are, by that very fact, superior to worldviews that do not.

[PavePusher]

20. You certainly assume a lot about gun owners.

And you do not understand the concept of a Civil Right at all.

[PavePusher]

36. So do Vermont-style carry.

Won't cost a dime.