Bill Effectively Prohibits African Americans and Hispanics From Buying Guns (Illinois)

[shadowrider]

Law-abiding African Americans and Hispanics would take it on the chin under a bill now moving through the Illinois General Assembly. Sponsored by Rep. Harry Osterman (D-14), HB6123 would prohibit any person or entity from selling a firearm to a so-called "street gang member."

--snip--

Given that the provisions of HB6123 establish no test for determining 'street gang' membership, and given the harsh penalties for violating the proposed law, it is understandable that retailers would shy away from selling firearms to persons whose speech, dress, mannerisms, or taste in music reflect the urban lifestyle."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bill-that-would-effectively-prohibit-african-americans-and-hispanics-from-buying-guns-advances-in-the-illinois-general-assembly-87643887.html

The law of unintended consequences strikes again. I seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt any gang member with any type of crime on their record would try and purchase a weapon from a FFL dealer AND undergo an NICS check. It's far too easy to obtain untraceable weapons on the street.

[Callisto32]

1. I doubt these consequences are unintended.

It is Illinois, after all.

Someone should kick their high executives down the steps of some grand public building in full view of the "authorities"....oh wait....

[mwrguy]

21. Disparate Impact n/t

[Possumpoint]

2. I Hope

that the SCOTUS kicks Illinois' teeth in when it comes to gun ownership. The whole nanny government attitude pisses me off.

[jody]

3. SPLC lists a number of white gangs in IL.

Hate Map

American Renaissance/New Century Foundation White Nationalist Chicago
Council of Conservative Citizens White Nationalist Chicago
Creativity Movement Neo-Nazi Zion
Ecclesiastical Council for the Restoration of Covenant Israel (ECRCI) Christian Identity Chicago
H.O.M.E. Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment Anti-Gay  Downers Grove
Illinois National Socialist Front Neo-Nazi Peoria
Illinois National Socialist Front Neo-Nazi Perkins 
Illinois National Socialist Front Neo-Nazi Palatine
Iron Rain Nationalists White Nationalist Chicago
Jewish Defense League General Hate Skokie
Knight Riders of the Ku Klux Klan Ku Klux Klan Harrisburg
Nation of Islam Black Separatist Peoria
Nation of Islam Black Separatist Rockford
Nation of Islam Black Separatist Bloomington
Nation of Islam Black Separatist East St. Louis
Nation of Islam Black Separatist Chicago
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Ku Klux Klan Chicago
National Socialist Movement Neo-Nazi Schiller Park
National Socialist Movement Neo-Nazi Belleville
Northern Hammerskins Racist Skinhead 
Supreme White Alliance Racist Skinhead 
United Northern and Southern Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Ku Klux Klan Chicago
United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan  Ku Klux Klan Beardstown 
United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan  Ku Klux Klan Belleville
United White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan  Ku Klux Klan 
Vinlanders Racist Skinhead 
Volksfront Racist Skinhead Chicago
White Boy Society White Nationalist 

[shadowrider]

4. Agreed

It isn't only blacks and hispanics, although the article singles these two groups out.

[jeepnstein]

9. This guy looks OK.

Just like any old guy with a tracheotomy. You'd have a hard time figuring out who he hung with unless he told you.

[shadowrider]

16. Sonny, founder of the Hells Angels

[hex29a]

11. If it were up to me, I'd add the Teabaggers to that list

shrug

[cowman]

14. I see

so people with a different opinion than you doesn't deserve the same 2nd amend rights? That's real progressive of you

[hex29a]

20. It's just a list...of thug types. I never said they shouldn't have civil rights!

My comment was only to compare them idealogically with those on that 'list'...(not that they'd ever have to worry about their 2A rights!)

I gotta learn the lingo here better...sorry.

[jody]

15. And Teabaggers would probably add you & I and all DUers. Isn't democracy great? n/t

[dashrif]

18. yep

one that train starts it never ends

[Euromutt]

19. I don't think you meant to list "Nation of Islam" there...

Not as a white hate group, anyway.

Of course, the SPLC doesn't keep track of gangs whose primary motivation for criminal behavior is monetary gain, as opposed to animosity toward and eradication of any particular ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. and I think that's more what the legislation has in mind.

[jody]

24. I listed all on SPLC's page at the cited link. n/t

[Hoopla Phil]

23. Great, bald white guys are on that list. . .

[SteveM]

5. When Jim Crow moved north, this was the result:

"to shut off weapons access to blacks... while leaving over-the-counter purchases to the affluent." Robert Sherrill, journalist and early advocate for gun control, commenting on the purpose of the Gun Control Act of 1968. There is no evidence that he supported this intended consequence.

[Glassunion]

6. I don't know who this Bill guy in Chicago is.

But he has been a real asshole lately...

"Bill Effectively Prohibits African Americans and Hispanics From Buying Guns"

[hex29a]

12. His middle name is Dick

;-)

[spin]

7. How does a person determine that someone is a street gang member?

Racial profiling would be the only way.

Gun control has racist roots and bears racist fruit.

[DonP]

10. Easy answer - Daley will tell you who is and isn't a gang banger

I bet they had to scramble like hell to add some white gangs to the list so it wasn't quite as obvious.

His father used to blockade and close all the underpasses between the project housing along the Dan Ryan and the old Comiskey Park so "the wrong sort of people" wouldn't be able to bother the fans. The barbed wire barricades stayed up until the early '90's.

Daley comes from a long tradition of intolerance and racism. His old man refused to provide Martin Luther King Jr. with appropriate police protection for his March through Marquette Park in the 60's. That's where King was hit in the head with a brick.

So you can be sure a Daley can spot "outside agitators and troublemakers" with no problem.

He has learned how to put a few high profile minorities in office so he can give the appearance of tolerance and fairness, but don't ask him about putting more cops in minority neighborhoods or why he's closed fire stations in places like Englewood or Pilsen but building new ones in his new Dearborn Park neighborhood.

[jody]

13. Why discriminate against "street" gangs and not other gangs unless its racial, i.e. black & latino?

[spin]

17. I definitely would not want to sell one of my weapons to a member ...

of a white supremacy group.

edited for spelling

[dashrif]

8. we can just say what it is right

Following the Civil War, several southern legislatures adopted comprehensive regulations which were known as the "Black Codes," because, fearful of race war and retribution, the mere sight of a black person with a gun was terrifying to whites. These codes denied the newly freed men many of the rights that were enjoyed by whites. In 1867, the Special Report of the Anti-Slavery Conference noted that under the Black Codes, blacks were "forbidden to own or bear firearms, and thus were rendered defenseless against assaults." By way of example, the Mississippi Black Code contained the following provision: "Be it enacted... hat no freedman, free Negro or mulatto, not in the military... and not licensed to do by the board of police of his or her county, shall keep or carry fire-arms of any kind, or any ammunition... and all such arms or ammunition shall be forfeited to the former...."

Legislative intent to disarm blacks can also be found in the voiding of a 1941 conviction of a white man, where a Florida Supreme Court Justice stated that "The was passed for the purpose of disarming the Negro laborers . . . never intended to be applied to the white population."

from
http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_markdis.html

[Indy Lurker]

22. I don't see how this law will fly.

To own or purchase a gun in Illinois, you must obtain a state issued Firearms Owner ID card (FOID card).

If the State of Illinois has insufficient reason to deny an individual a FOID card, what grounds will a shop keeper have to invalidate the state's decision?

Granted, if an individual with a FOID card discusses a straw purchase, or an intended crime, there is a duty for the shopkeeper to prevent the sale, but this is not what we are talking about.

I believe this law also has other constitutional issues, as it makes an otherwise legal action (selling a firearm) a criminal act, based solely on what organizations the purchaser belong to, and not a violation of the law, and certainly without the due process of law.

[Mike K]

25. I agree.

There is only one positive indicator of street-gang membership which might be justified as a reason to refuse sale of guns and this is the presence of certain specific tattoos. Aside from that, what else is there but subjective opinion on which to base a refusal to sell guns? There are certain dress styles and colors that denote gang membership, all of which are subject to reasonable dispute.

A dealer who refuses to sell a gun to someone on the basis of an ambiguous or subjective impression, such as a clothing style, a shaved head, etc., is leaving himself open to a lawsuit.