Eight home invasions in less than a year.

[one-eyed fat man]

Washington state medical marijuana farmer shoots burglar after taking fire.

Legal marijuana home invasion

Thought all the dopers were supposed to mellow out and wait on Domino's to bring the munchies if weed were legal. Maybe it's scumbags who think they have the right to steal what other people work for are the problem.

I am sure there will be one or two right along who will claim the down economy, endemic poverty, historic racism and lack of opportunity forced the shitbag into stealing dope to ease the suffering of his glaucoma stricken mother. Who, of course, we will be quickly reminded by wailing female relatives on the 6 o'clock news, he loves dearly. That he's really a good boy, except for that shotgun wielding armed robbery stuff, who had been working hard to turn his life around since he found religion and got out of prison the last time.

[doc03]

1. This used to be a very low crime area, we have had

several home invasion recently, it seems to be the thing to do now. Here is the most recent: http://www.timesleaderonline.com/page/content.detail/id/516753.html?nav=5010

[obxhead]

2. wow! got a twofer. can bash guns and pot

First, I see nothing about the robber trying to steal for his sick mommy. The more likely reason they were there to rob this home was to sell the pot on illegally. A few counties in a few states legalizing pot does not mean there will not be crimes associated with the drug trade. I have a feeling that if these kids would be working their green thumb, not a gun, if it were legal to grow your own pot everywhere in the country.

It is after all what most pot heads dream of, having a field all their own for constant pot production.

As for the defender of his home, I can't blame him a bit. I wouldn't have had a sorry ass .22 cal handgun though. I would have the shortest legal 12 gauge I was allowed to own. He had a right to defend his property from invaders also toting weapons.

[one-eyed fat man]

4. wait a little longer

There's a half a dozen or so posters here who spring to the defense of every burglar who gets shot by saying stuff like stealing shouldn't result in the "death penalty"

They are also the ones who think criminals never CHOOSE to be be burglars, stick up artists, rapists, etc. that they are also forced into their lives of crime by socio-economic circumstances the victims of their criminal behavior are too insensitive to understand.

They never met a thug they couldn't excuse.

[obxhead]

5. unless

the thug is a corporation, especially an Obama backed corp.

:hide:

[shadowrider]

3. ROFL you nailed it

"I am sure there will be one or two right along who will claim the down economy, endemic poverty, historic racism and lack of opportunity forced the shitbag into stealing dope to ease the suffering of his glaucoma stricken mother. Who, of course, we will be quickly reminded by wailing female relatives on the 6 o'clock news, he loves dearly. That he's really a good boy, except for that shotgun wielding armed robbery stuff, who had been working hard to turn his life around since he found religion and got out of prison the last time."

Seems like that's the exact mantra to explain the good boy who fell in with the wrong crowd and it ain't his fault.

As far as your s/n goes, my dad (who almost turned professional pool player back in the 40's) would take us out in his older years and kick our asses. He used to smirk and say, "Not bad for a one-eyed fat man." LOL, brings back memories.

[rrneck]

6. Was he a shitbag when he was born? nt

[shadowrider]

7. Oh, that's right. Forgot about that

It's not his fault he refused to study in school and get an education. It's not his fault he didn't have the grades necessary to get into college, after all, the teachers stressed self-esteem and not enough science and math. It's not his fault he started hanging out on the street. It's not his fault he developed the wrong friends. It's not his fault he illegally acquired a gun and it's not his fault he tried to commit crimes with that illegal weapon.

Not his fault at all. He's just misunderstood. He grew up making choices. Right or wrong, yes or no. He had every chance in the world to get on the right path. He chose the wrong path. How is that anyone's fault but his regardless his status when he was born?

[rrneck]

8. Damn, I missed out.

I shoulda chosen to be a millionaire up to my ass in hot wimmin. I fucked up. Can I start over?

He broke into the wrong house and got shot for his trouble. Who knows how many people he hurt before he ran across somebody who could hurt him first. He made a ton of bad choices in his life. But he made those bad choices from a range of choices, most of which were all bad.

This is not the land of equal opportunity that is advertised. In fact, thanks to the authoritarians here income disparity it is as bad as it was in the late nineteenth century. Income disparity equals opportunity disparity. Opportunity disparity equals choice disparity.

Everyone could do better. Some of us have the advantage of a loving family, a well funded school system, a safe neighborhood, and responsive social services. Many don't. Those that don't missed out because too many of us have been willing to say, "if he can't figure it out, fuck him."

[one-eyed fat man]

9. who knows?

Maybe the apple didn't fall far from the tree and he was born into a family of criminals. But poverty only makes people poor, it does not make them crooks. Being wealthy doesn't prevent people from becoming crooks either. But rich or poor, low bred or to the manor born, fence post ignorant, or degreed Renaissance man, the individual chooses to abide by certain social conventions or not.

Stealing is stealing. And most folks resent being victimized. If you had surveillance footage of the petty bastard who steals co-workers' lunches from the office refrigerator, you would post it on the company bulletin boards, You Tube and anywhere else you could to humiliate the low-down son-of-a-bitch!

You can make excuses for it, you can rationalize it, you can do everything but say the miscreant had NO CHOICE.

Choosing to stick a gun in someone's face and demanding their stuff can be an illegal, impulsive, ill-advised, even an eminently regrettable choice, but it was a choice they made, and sometimes it's one they don't live to regret!

[rrneck]

10. If you're poor enough

it can make you a crook. If people have no money, they will steal to eat. But that's an extreme example. Or is it?

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/FoodSecurity/
In 2008, 85 percent of U.S. households were food secure throughout the entire year, and 14.6 percent of households were food insecure at least some time during that year, up from 11.1 percent in 2007. This is the highest recorded prevalence rate of food insecurity since 1995 when the first national food security survey was conducted.

This is supposed to be the richest country in the world and fourteen percent of the population doesn't know where the next meal is coming from, even occasionally? That's a hard way to live. I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of career criminals who commit the bulk of violent crime come from homes in that fourteen percent.

The guys that tried to rob that house no doubt had a long history of violence. They no doubt had been in and out of the criminal justice system - after getting in trouble in school - after getting in trouble at home. That is, if anybody gave a shit about them at all when they were kids. I'm sure a lot of people gave them a lot of instruction regarding how to live in a civilized society, most of it in the form of sticks rather than carrots. Coming down hard on people makes hard people.

Being poor doesn't make people criminals. Treating them like cultural cannon fodder can do it. Slap people around enough and sooner or later they will slap you back.

[one-eyed fat man]

11. Like these guys?

Burglars plunder food bank

No doubt they only broke into the food bank out of desperation to feed their families because its hours of operation conflicted with their work schedule.

While I have no doubt there are folks who truly, through no fault of their own, have no where their next meal is coming from I doubt that hold-up men or burglars would amount to a significant number of that group.

They could be the unwanted bastards of some drug-addicted prostitute, abused mentally, physically and sexually by her endless string of pimps and pushers, unschooled, unsupervised, left to their own devices since they could walk, but I doubt it. They just bullies and psychopaths who revel in terrorizing others.

[rrneck]

12. At what point

do they become bullies and psychopaths? What made them that way?

If they were born that way they should be permanently institutionalized for the good of society. Or maybe they should be killed at birth. Is there some way to genetically determine who the bad guys are?

If they weren't born that way, something made them so. What is the difference between a gang banging bully and a hard charging pillar of the community businessman? This is the same nature or nurture debate all over again.

Ultimately, the mindset that is willing to declare anybody "just plain bad" leads to Eugenics or something like it.

Take any given kid and put him in a place where he is neglected intellectually, emotionally, and financially and he will probably grow up to become a thug. Take the same kid and impair him intellectually and emotionally, but give him all the advantages that money has to offer and you will likely get - George W. Bush. Take the same kid again and give him intellectual and financial benefits but treat him like furniture or worse and you likely get Dick Cheney. Not always of course, but treating people like shit generally makes shitty people.

[one-eyed fat man]

14. why make excuses?

What makes someone smoke their first cigarette?

Kids are more likely to try if their parents smoke. They are more likely to try if all their "cool" friends do. But ultimately, THEY CHOOSE!

No one held them down and forced them to smoke.

In most cases, noone forced nascent thugs to steal or hurt people. They did it, got away with it and liked it. They will keep doing it because they like it. They get gratification from seeing the fear in their victims' eyes. They don't engage in their anti-social behaviors because they HAVE to, to do it because they WANT to.

Criminality is just another self-destructive behavior on long list of dumb choices a person can make. But that's just it, it IS a choice. No one is born to be a thief, rapist or murderer. It is a choice they make. Might some circumstances encourage such behaviors, certainly. Might there be some intervention that could save them, probably.

Are there some who won't quit until they are laying face down in the street, shot through by an inartfully chosen victim? Absolutely!

[rrneck]

15. Why make excuses indeed.

Why make excuses for a system that exploits the poor and desperate for profit? Instead of recognizing the rotting infrastructure of our culture we simply find a way to make money from failure.

We design school systems to teach people to be good consumers instead of good citizens. Our health care system is designed to profit from illness rather than prevent it, and the same holds true for social services in this country. Rather than help people be better people, and hence better citizens, we simply medicate them. Big pharma is the most powerful drug cartel in the world.

We are living in a second Gilded Age in this country. Each and every man, woman, and child is only seen as the source of a revenue stream for investment capital, and they will provide it one way or another. Everyone's life choices are being narrowed by a culture that views people as a source for revenue rather than as human beings. The vast majority of choices offered people aren't really choices at all, just options that all profit our "betters". Intellegent life choices are becoming increasingly difficult for everyone, and those that have the least access to adaquate information and support are those that are most likely to fail. Unfortunately, we are living in a culture that has found a way to profit from failure as well.

How many choices for right living do you think people had in Germany in the thirties? Or in Russia in the twenties? Or in the southern United States during reconstruction? It would have been very hard to do the right thing then. We're nowhere near that bad off yet, but we don't live in the egalitarian utopia we think we do either.

There will always be sociopaths, bullies, and other social failures. But to say that people simply made bad choices and leave it at that is to accept our culture as perfect when it is not. And to do that is to avoid making it better for the people that live in it. We, as citizens, are responsible for our culture and the others that share it. That means that we are required to assume responsibility for our failures as well as our successes.

Anything less is uncivilized.

[Mike K]

13. This type of activity is predictable -

- and occurred during alcohol prohibition, though much more violently. Repeal put an end to it.

[SsevenN]

16. Pot is a perfect

grab item. Lightweght, valuble, easy to sell on the 'black market'. It's an extremly easy item to fence, makes for the "perfect" crime.

Of course, the legalisation of pot in general would do MUCH more to eliminate the demand for it as a fencible item than the hiring of addtional jack booted thugs will.

But we've known this for a while.