Toledo Blade editors wish recent robbery victims had been unarmed...

[spin]

The Ohio media's opposition stance on changing laws to protect innocent people was inexplicable, until now. In the wake of two separate incidents recently where Toledo retail store workers used firearms to defend against armed robbers, The Toledo Blade has finally come right out and said that society would be a better place if criminals, not honest people, had the upper hand in an armed encounter.

In an appalling show of compassion for lawless thugs, editors at The Blade openly argued that responding to a deadly threat with deadly force is a detriment to society. Only by twisting logic can The Blade make the argument that when a bad guy's plan to rob defenseless innocent people is thwarted by an honest citizen, the responsibility for the outcome lies with the victim.

Somehow, The Blade wants people to give the thug setting the situation in motion a pass, and instead wants society to pass judgment on an honest person who took their personal safety seriously.

But, at least The Toledo Blade had the guts to finally admit what many already suspected – the editors really prefer Ohioans to be unarmed victim
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7189

The editorial in question:

Price of a civil society
DO YOU feel safer now?

Twice in just the past few days, seemingly bad guys were shot while allegedly attempting to rob Toledo stores. Although we're glad the robberies were thwarted and thankful no innocents were injured, we're not sure that store owners and employees defending themselves with deadly force is an absolute good.

In the first incident, Allied Music of Ohio co-owner Eric Bilger, who has a concealed-carry permit and has had shooting practice, exchanged gunfire with suspect Steven James, whose rap sheet includes a conviction on four counts of aggravated robbery. James, who reportedly was holding a gun to the head of a store clerk, was wounded twice before collapsing in a parking lot across Byrne Road from the music store. He's in Lucas County Jail.

In the second alleged robbery, two days later at Bengals Food Mart on Airport Highway, a store clerk killed Alfred Evans, a former parolee with a criminal history who reportedly approached the store brandishing a gun. Details are sketchy so far, but at least three people may have witnessed the events.

Being robbed at gunpoint is frightening, and we do not presume to judge, as police would say, the righteousness of either shooting. But it must be remembered that robbery is not a capital crime, and it's only by chance that no one other than the would-be robbers was injured.

***snip***

Some people argue that store owners defending themselves will mean fewer robbery attempts. We fear the result might instead be that bad guys will get bigger guns and be quicker to pull the trigger.

And even if it's true that an armed society is a polite society, we wonder how much collateral damage people will be willing to accept in an arms race to achieve civility through the barrel of a gun.

Instead, it seems to us that when deadly force is used as a first response rather than a last resort, civil society suffers.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100319/OPINION02/3190305

[SteveM]

1. Perhaps the Toledo Blade has... you know... a thing for those hot thugs?

[shadowrider]

2. Holy cow

So I guess these articles from the Toledo Blade, in which people successfully defended themselves, is a disappointment to the editorial staff. Perhaps they'd prefer the people defending themselves had gotten shot and killed. Then they could run an editorial praising these people as morally superior and indicative of the type of response that should be normal. Of course, this is no consolation to the families and friends of the morally superior deceased, but the Blade obviously doesn't care about them.

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100313/NEWS02/3130375

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100314/NEWS02/303149999

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100315/NEWS02/3150325

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100315/NEWS02/100319750

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100316/NEWS02/3160425

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100317/NEWS02/3170327

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100323/NEWS02/3230355

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100323/NEWS02/100329914

One article on how lives are saved by gun owners
http://toledoblade.com/article/20100322/OPINION03/3220313

[SsevenN]

3. Holy cow..

Is right, talk about cognitive dissonance.

[sailor65]

4. Reminds me of the movie "Demolition Man"

near the beginnning, a reporter asks Stallone whether the life one one little girl (The one he had just rescued) was worth the destruction of the Mini-Mall.....

[dashrif]

13. Fu lady

good line

[proteus_lives]

17. Ha, I remember that movie.

"Fuck you, lady!"

"Good answer!"

[Jackson1999]

5. Unbelievable....

"But what if, in the worst case, it had resulted in the death of the store clerk who was being held at gunpoint? And either gun battle could have ended in the deaths of innocent customers inside or passersby on the sidewalk."

But what if, in a worst case, the robber decided to pull the trigger and kill the clerk?

That is really a nutso editorial.

[shadowrider]

6. But what if, in a worst case, the robber decided to pull the trigger and kill the clerk?

And that happens more and more as bad guys don't want a witness that can ID them. They forget about security cameras inside and out which can MAYBE ID them, dependent upon the size of their hoodie.

[katzenjammers]

26. My sister lives just half a mile from this horrible killing in Oklahoma, sent me the story

edit: {{{OOPS, I saw 'Mar' and thought it was 'May' as in today's news, it's an old thread apparently.
Sorry...}}}


from the local TV station. She says this kind of thing has become almost a daily (or nightly) occurence...and it is getting worse! What the hell is going on up there on the mainland?
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12519763

We usually go back to our summer place in June for a few months but maybe not this year...
:scared:

[pipoman]

7. Nothing sells papers like a string of unsolved armed robberies..n/t

[PavePusher]

8. Jesus Christ on a pogo-stick.

"But it must be remembered that robbery is not a capital crime(1), and it's only by chance that no one other than the would-be robbers was injured(2)."

1. Armed robbery is not hugs and kisses, and frequently turns into capitol crimes.

2. There was no "chance" about it. The victims aimed at the armed robbers, not fired randomly to the four winds.



The name of this paper is certainly a source of much irony...

[GreenStormCloud]

9. One sees this type view a lot among the gun-control advocates.

I am reading Hemenways/ Private Guns, Public Health to post reviews of the chapters here, and in the chapter on self-defense he takes the same approach as the newspaper. It is basically advice to not resist the bad guy or you will make him really angry and then he will be worse.

[cowman]

11. That's like

a lot of idiots who say a woman who is getting raped should just lie there and take it because she might get hurt resisting. How asnine is that

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Travis Coates]

25. Now wait just a minute

Is what he posted an accurate quote or not? If so, how is he a "lying piece of shit"?

I'm sorry you had to go through that experience

[spin]

15. On Amazon 10 readers gave Private Guns, Public Health 10 stars ...

7 gave it 1 star. Nothing in between.

Sounds a lot like the Gungeon. I will be interested in your reviews when you post them

[GreenStormCloud]

19. Chapters 1 & 2 are already posted.

I expect to put up another post in a couple of days.

[burrfoot]

10. In my opinion, this

is the most telling line: "we fear the result might instead be....."

They couldn't even gather up the sack to say something like "while we are dismayed by any use of firearms to cause injury...." which, while I strongly disagree, is a least a logically defensible position. They just straight out said it- they are afraid.

I'd love to see Ohioans (Ohioers? What do you call yourselves?) clog up the internet arteries of that newspaper (i.e. lots of people email them) with the stats and graphs showing that gun ownership is increasing, and has shown a negative correlation with violent crime across the country.

Perhaps that will allay the fears of those editors.



:shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. Where are all the gun control folks?

[east texas lib]

16. ...it's only by chance that no one other than the would-be robbers was injured.

It's only by chance that the would-be robbers both had the lousy luck to choose armed victims. Very instructive, though.

[oneshooter]

18. I wonder if they would feel the same

If they were the ones being robbed of their livelihood.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[JoeyT]

20. In the first line the editorial claims

"Although we're glad the robberies were thwarted and thankful no innocents were injured" then they spend the rest of the editorial proving that it's a lie and they're not glad at all.

[Indy Lurker]

21. This editorial is entirely self serving.

The writer is not a store clerk, cab driver, or pizza delivery person. He or She is not concerned with being robbed or killed for the contents of the cash register.

He or she is only worried about being an innocent shopper caught in the crossfire.

This can be clearly seen in the following quotes:

"Mr. Bilger's heroism is unquestioned. But what if, in the worst case, it had resulted in the death of the store clerk who was being held at gunpoint? And either gun battle could have ended in the deaths of innocent customers inside or passersby on the sidewalk."

"Some people argue that store owners defending themselves will mean fewer robbery attempts. We fear the result might instead be that bad guys will get bigger guns and be quicker to pull the trigger."

"And even if it's true that an armed society is a polite society, we wonder how much collateral damage people will be willing to accept in an arms race to achieve civility through the barrel of a gun."

[one-eyed fat man]

22. Wait for the follow up editorial

The editorial staff to commend the "alleged" armed robbers for being resourceful entrepreneurs during the economic downturn. Instead of waiting on some government program to redistribute wealth they took the initiative. They will condemn the centuries of discrimination where thieves have been cast as pariahs in society. Archaic religious strictures commanding Thou shalt not steal" only serve to incite the masses against thieves who are simply using an alternative economic model.

People are not born that stupid, it takes years of devoted effort to get to that level!

[jazzhound]

23. Consider the source.........

The utter lack of integrity of David Hemenway, Philip Cook and Arthur Kellerman (among others) is well encapsulated in Gary Kleck's smackdown of their tactics in defense of his study on defensive gun use:

http://www.secondamendmentlibrary.com/11/kleck1999.pdf

A long read, but very instructive one.