MSNBC: Record numbers now licensed to pack heat-Firearms deaths fall as millions obtain permits to c

[RamboLiberal]

Waving a chromed semiautomatic pistol, the robber pushed into the building in the bustling Five Points neighborhood of Columbia, S.C., just before 11 p.m. on April 11, 2009. “Gimme what you got!” he yelled, his gun hand trembling.

Attorney Jim Corley was one of four people in the room, the lounge area of a 12-step recovery group’s meeting hall. “He said, ‘Give me your wallet,’” Corley recalled. “So I reached around to my back pocket and gave him what was there.”

Unfortunately for the gunman, later identified as Kayson Helms, 18, of Edison, N.J., that was Corley’s tiny Kel-Tec .32, hidden in a wallet holster and loaded with a half-dozen hollow points. Corley fired once into the robber’s abdomen. The young man turned. Corley fired twice more, hitting him in the neck and again in the torso. Helms ran into the night and collapsed to die on a railroad embankment 100 feet away.

Reports filed by officers who arrived at the scene a short time later called it an “exceptionally clear” case of justifiable homicide. Following South Carolina’s “Castle Doctrine,” which allows the use of deadly force in self-defense, police did not arrest Corley. They did not interrogate him. Corley was offered the opportunity to make a voluntary statement, which he did.

-----

From its beginnings in the 1980s, the “right-to-carry” movement has succeeded in boosting the number of licensed concealed-gun carriers from fewer than 1 million to a record 6 million today, according to estimates from gun-rights groups that are supported by msnbc.com’s research. And while hotly debated, the effect of this dramatic increase is largely unknown.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life/

[shadowrider]

1. Good for him. He's spent time at the range.

Now I'll await the arrival of anti-gunners who will insist this was excessive force and everyone should have given the robber what he wanted, AND insist he'd not have harmed them.

They'll be here in 3, 2, 1..

[terrell9584]

4. A gun is a tool just like anything else

Rifles and shotguns are primarily for hunting but can be used for self defense. You buy them with the intent to actually use them outside of the practice realm

Rapid fire rifles and pistols are primarily for self-defense. When you purchase them you buy them with the idea that you never want to have to use them for their intended use. You only want to use them on range and in competitions. However, you do the range and competitions so if the unthinkable happens and that split second arrives you will be able to use them for defense.


And kudos to this guy. I bet this story will spread like wildfire around that town and least for a few weeks, you'll see crime attempts on innocent targets drop dramatically.

[zipplewrath]

6. Sorry to disappoint

I guess I'm not really an "anti-gunner" since I find the vast majority of gun control laws to be horribly ineffective. I'm not exactly a "pro-gunner" either however. I'm more of a "10th amendment" guy than a 2nd. But I've often pointed out to my more left leaning friends that typically, the guy willing to take the time and effort to get a permit is often the guy you most want to have one. If there is an antidote to stupidity, it is training. And all of the folks who I've known that take the training, they've really enjoyed the trainer. Most folks don't know nearly as much as they think they do about weapons and their use.

If I had any critique, it would be more about the shots after the first. It wasn't clear to me how far away the subsequent shots were made. If the guy is running away, at somepoint one has to become concerned about whom else is in the field of fire.

[shadowrider]

7. Rule #2

Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

[msongs]

2. the inmates r taking over the asylum, better get a gun to protect ourselves nt

[SteveM]

19. No, just a rather defined group of HyperPunks threatening others. nt

[rfranklin]

3. This is one way to keep capital punishment popular...

And it's not subject to any appeals.

[shadowrider]

5. The only one to blame for the bad guys demise

Is the bad guy. Had he not been committing this crime, he'd still be walking around.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. He in effect committed suicide it wasn't capital punishment.

[slackmaster]

35. That makes absolutely no sense, rfranklin

:shrug:

[sharesunited]

8. Guns as solution to guns. Zero points awarded.

[shadowrider]

9. Excellent shot, MANY points awarded

or would you prefer the bad guy have killed all 4 victims, since he had a gun, probably an illegal gun carried illegally, but that's against the law.

[cowman]

21. Dumb as a solution to dumb

100 points awarded

[spin]

31. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it ...

I believe that it is great to live in a country with free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.

[proteus_lives]

38. SU's standard non-logic. Zero points awarded.

Further, 25 points taken away because of failure to recognize reality.

[katandmoon]

11. More gun porn.

[X_Digger]

12. awwww, have a balloon

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. May I again suggest a nice strong pot of lavender-chamomile tea?

Really, it's quite relaxing with some stevia or agave syrup as a sweetener. It'll soothe your nerves in no time at all...

[SteveM]

20. Maybe just some nice strong pot.

[cowman]

22. Yeah

we just love that porn, it just pisses you off doesn't it

[spin]

32. That's not gun porn, this is gun porn ...

S&W Model 460XVR Hunter


S&W Model 627 .38 Super 8-Shot


S&W Nickel model 24-3

[Callisto32]

46. MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Daddy like.

Except, I'm not fond of the "thing in the trigger" photography method......

[Euromutt]

49. Eh. Revolvers don't really do it for me.

Any revolver with a cylinder that swings out to the left is by definition southpaw-unfriendly, and unfriendly ergonomics are a turn-off to me. De gustibus non disputandum and all that, it's just not my cup of espresso.

[DonP]

50. Charter Arms has a Leftie Revolver

The cylinder swings out on the left side for reloads with your weak (right) hand.

I know they have a version of their .38+P Undercover 5 shot. They may have a version of their .44 Special for lefties too.

I picked up a used Undercover a few years ago ($125), had my wife try it out on the range and haven't seen the gun again since then. Except when I'm cleaning and she brings it out for me to spiff up for her.

[Euromutt]

51. It's true, they do, but it's not a model that interests me

Charter Arms has one left-handed revolver, the "Southpaw," which is a left-handed version of their Undercover Lite; aluminum frame, 2" barrel, .38 Spl+P only. (I'm not counting the pink-framed version as a separate model.)

I have to make clear upfront that I first shot handguns during my military service, so I'm accustomed primarily to semi-autos, and the prospect of having to conduct clearance drills doesn't deter me. But when it comes to advising friends on choosing their first handgun, the model I've recommended looking at first (I probably don't need to tell you you can't pick a gun for someone else; at most, you can suggest certain models for them to try out to see if they like them) if their preference went towards a revolver would be a Ruger SP101, chambered in .357 Mag with a 3.06" barrel; it's less expensive than a S&W J-frame, has the flexibility of being able to use .38 Spl while still being able to upgrade to .357 Mag, and you can get Crimson Trace laser grips for it (of which I'm a big fan) if you want. The 3" barrel gives more muzzle energy and accuracy without any appreciable loss in concealability.

And while I understand the current, fourth, incarnation of Charter Arms is significantly better than its two predecessors, I'm still leery of buying a self-defense gun made by a company with an unproven track record. And self-defense is really all the Southpaw is good for; small and light as it is, it's not going to be much fun at the range.

[old mark]

13. I used to have a KelTec .32 and I am thinking about getting one again -

they are so small and light, I used to carry it in my tee shirt pocket, actually fell asleep with in there more than once.
Very reliable.

mark

[GreenStormCloud]

14. Get the Kel-Tec P3AT. Same size gun, but in .380. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Some statistics on carry and crime, from the article

In the 1980s and ’90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of “shall-issue” and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006.

Crooks don't want to get shot.

The highest gun homicide rate is in Washington, D.C., which has had the nation’s strictest gun-control laws for years and bans concealed carry: 20.50 deaths per 100,000 population, five times the general rate. The lowest rate, 1.12, is in Utah, which has such a liberal concealed weapons policy that most American adults can get a permit to carry a gun in Utah without even visiting the state.

Crooks don't want to get shot.

The decline in gun homicides also comes as U.S. firearm sales are skyrocketing, according to federal background checks that are required for most gun sales. After holding stable at 8.5 to 9 million checks from 1999 to 2005, the FBI reported a surge to 10 million in 2006, 11 million in 2007, nearly 13 million in 2008 and more than 14 million last year, a 55 percent increase in just four years.

Those are a LOT of voters that we don't want to make angry. We need to be nice to them.

[RamboLiberal]

16. Lot of nice .380s out there as well now

I got a Ruger LCP that fits perfectly in a pocket in a pocket holster. And it seems like almost every major handgun manufacturer has or is coming out with a pocket .380.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Yes. They are what's hot.

I saw an ad in American Rifleman today. Taurus is bring out a compact .380 with a little pouch that looks like a PDA pouch and clips onto your belt.

[cowman]

24. I like my

compact Firestar .45, conceals nicely and has quite a punch, only 6 in the mag but I carry 2 xtra mags with me

[Callisto32]

47. I can't figure out why they are so popular with ammo so expensive,

when you an even get it.

I'm going to suggest 9x18. Just because I like it, and the guns made for it. They aren't quite a slim and trim as a modern .380, but a p-64 is pretty freakin small.

[Glassunion]

26. I love to carry the LCP, But...

I hate to shoot it. Stings like a bee. When at the range I usually only shoot about 2 to 3 mags out of the LCP, then I go through about 5 boxes of ammo with my 9mm Glock 26.

Love to carry... Hate to shoot. But I can conceal it anywhere.

[RamboLiberal]

28. Agree about the LCP not being that fun to shoot

I usually carry a Glock 26 & have the LCP as backup, but at work I like to walk at lunch time, sometimes in a wooded park area. Little tough to be out in the parking lot trying to put the Glock in a concealment rig. But the LCP and Nemesis holster I can just slip into my jacket or pants pocket. I also got a little belt pouch with a front cell phone pocket that should fit it perfectly.

[Glassunion]

29. I think we just had a moment...

We both carry identical tools...

How sweet... :sarcasm:

[DonP]

23. Can be a little ammo sensitive

I've had one for years. Sent it to KelTec for a factory "fluff and buff" but after a few hundred rounds it's very reliable.

The biggest risk with it is "limp wristing" it because it is so light. Our 95 pound daughter tried it and kept getting jams until I watched her. She was letting it recoil in her hand and wasn't gripping it firmly enough. As soon as she firmed up her grip, no problems.

Like people say, "a .32 may not be much of a round but I've never seen anybody that wanted to get shot in the face with it from across the street."

[safeinOhio]

25. Check out the cadillac of 32s

the Seecamp. I have one with a laser light. Gives it a square imprint in your pocket.

[cowman]

27. Nice

I'm jealous

[jazzhound]

30. This article provides a good reminder that

it's not a bad idea to carry a pocket pistol. Our robbery victim probably didn't have the option of going for a pistol in an IWB holster.

It also draws attention to the fact that cc permit holding citizens actually think through scenarios like these and prepare for them. So much for the lame argument that you can't protect yourself against an armed criminal with a gun.

[spin]

34. A pocket pistol is a good choice for concealed carry ...

my son in law carries a Ruger LCP, he also has a compact Glock 40 cal, but the Ruger is far easier to carry.

I like revolvers and I carry a S&W model 642 in my pocket. It's a compact light little powerhouse that fires .38 special +P rounds. It's not a weapon that I would recommend to a newbie shooter as it has a nasty recoil and you have to master double action shooting as it has a fully enclosed hammer. It only holds five rounds so it's not a weapon to take on a Zombie hoard.




The biggest advantage of pocket carry is that if you find yourself in a suspicious situation, you can calmly place your hand in your pocket on the firearm. If the shit hits the fan, you can quickly draw the weapon. Most pocket pistols and revolvers are "belly guns" and extremely hard to shoot at long ranges. But shooting at a attacker at 25 yards will probably get you in a lot of trouble unless you have an EXTREMELY good reason. Since most serious encounters occur within 21 feet, the pocket pistols and revolvers are adequate.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. If you have to, a revolver can be fired from INSIDE a pocket, and not jam.

Try that with an autoloader and you turn it into a one shot pistol, and likely injure yourself from the slide. I solve the limited ammo problem by carrying two guns. The S&W 642 in a pocket and a Bersa Thunder .380 (Extended mag 9+1) in the waist with two seven round mags in the other pocket.

[RamboLiberal]

42. That's a good reason too if carrying a gun in a purse or bag

A revolver is a good choice since it can fired from inside the purse and won't jam like a semiauto will.

[DonP]

3 yards, 3 shots, 3 seconds

I'm sure it's a gross over simplification but my Cop BIL said that's the usual reality in most defensive shootings. From what I read in other places, probably not far from the truth.

Close range, quick - usually not involving a reload.

I just picked up "the poor man's J-Frame" a Taurus 605 in .357/.38. A bit bulkier than my KelTec P-32 but a whole lot more juice.

[GreenStormCloud]

41. That is true.

Most self-defense gunfights involve three shots or less. I have read somewhere that half are so close that they leave flash burns on the other person.

[spin]

44. Looks like a great self defense weapon. (n/t)

[jazzhound]

52. Good points made here, spin

I live in CA, so I abide by the law and don't carry. Nevertheless my little 5 shot S&W .357 completely disappears in the deep pockets of a pair of canvas shorts I frequently wear. You want to talk about recoil.......YOW! (with.357)

[oneshooter]

33. My preference is my SIG220, 45's RULE!!! n/t

[Callisto32]

48. Yikes, spendy.

Again, when you can find them.

[proteus_lives]

37. And from the Antis? .........Crickets.

Facts are like Kryptonite to them.

[SsevenN]

40. Cognitive dissonance...

It must be truly horrible, when the rational side of your brain knows what's real, but your emotional side is so self-absorbed that you can't even face yourself.

In a way I feel bad for them.

[Jackson1999]

39. This reporter....

his name is Mike Stuckey, is one of the few reporters out there covering gun issues the right way. He takes the radical journalistic approach of covering all sides of the issue, and following up on claims made by the different interest groups with his own research. Amazing.

[spin]

43. I agree. It's amazing to see an unbiased report on firearms. (n/t)

[jazzhound]

45. I believe Mr. Stuckey's integrity should be worth an e-mail to MSNBC

In fact I will do that.......tomorrow. Now I'm going to sleep.