New Jersey .50 Caliber Ban

[funkyflathead]

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2002/Bills/A3500/3942_S1.HTM

Dang! Now NJ satellites are gonna have to be shot down from PA instead!:nuke:

[jmowreader]

1. They saved the muzzleloaders!

I am glad they put in the "do not fire fixed ammunition" clause. Black powder muzzleloaders don't fire fixed ammunition, but they're bigger than .50 caliber. And they're a lot of fun to shoot.

Besides, who ever heard of pulling a drive-by with a musket?

[billbuckhead]

2. Way to go New Jersey. Stand up against sniper worship.

Stand up against stupidity and terrorism.

[MrBenchley]

9. There's no reason for any civilian

to have a 50 caliber howitzer...

[aztx55]

14. Emotional response

The 50 cal is nowhere near being what a howitzer is. Fearmongering, MrBenchley?

[MrBenchley]

15. Next ask me

if I care whether it's technically a howitzer.....there's no reason this should be on the civilian market.

[MrSandman]

17. Why?

Prior restraint demands justification in a free society.

[TexasMexican]

28. "there's no reason this should be on the civilian market"

So in America we should outlaw things that have no reason to be on the civillian market?

That being said there are reasons for this to be on the civillian market. First of all, there is a demand from civillians for these.

[MrBenchley]

37. Yeah, when they pose a danger

as these do.

[the_acid_one]

38. Mr Benchley is right.

Dont you know .50 BMG is one of the top criminal calibers according to FBI data.

I'm sure at least 2 or 3 people have been shot with a .50 cal in the past 15 or 20 years. Public menace indeed!

[slackmaster]

48. The backers of the NJ measure have presented no evidence

To show that .50-caliber firearms pose a danger to anyone. The "arguments" in favor of the ban consist entirely of appeals to fear.

[slackmaster]

41. Notice how the "there's no reason" crowd presents only opinion

Opinion based on fear, and not a trace of logical argument.

[MrSandman]

47. But opinions full of

preemptive restrictions

[SmokingLoon]

49. BENCH!

Do you believe that any firearms should be on the civilian market? If so, what firearms?

[MrSandman]

16. There is no reason for any civilian

to have a 50 caliber howitzer...

but these are not howitzers. Howitzers are designed to fire over battlements. The guns that this law illegitimizes are designed for targets in the line of sight.

These guns are not 50 caliber. They are .50 caliber.
Now, what about those .458's? Or those long range .25-06's?

in the opinion of the CA and now it seems NJ legislatures. Don't even consider they have been lawfully owned for about 20 years and have been in involved in many, uh, multiple, uh, a few, uh imagined, yeah imagined crimes.

[slackmaster]

40. We defeated a .50 caliber ban in California last year

Killed it in the Senate Public Safety Commitee. Once in a while logic prevails.

My condolences to the people of New Jersistan.

[Liberal Classic]

42. Obviously you don't know much about military arms

Calling a rifle an artillery piece is either ignorant or dishonest, or both. In your case I'm betting on both. Obviously your point is to scare people by comparing it to a cannon since you cannot come up with a logical argument against it.

[MrBenchley]

43. Next ask me if I give a crap

[slackmaster]

45. Ah, a "don't bother me with the facts" response

Real productive.

:eyes:

[SmokingLoon]

46. A .50 cal howitzer

wouldn't be very effective.

[alwynsw]

52. Howitzer?

Those start at about 75mm (roughly 2.5 inches). How long have you been buyinbg size 14 shoes for those size 3 feet?

[aztx55]

13. Worship?

These fifty cals are overwhelmingly used for long distance target shooting competitions, not used in crime.

[the_acid_one]

20. Beating the ban.

"Ronnie Barrett, of Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc announced the development of .458 BMG rifles and ammunition in light of recent legislation attacking his .50 BMG rifles. "

"The round consists of a specially made .45 caliber bullet seated in a modified .50 BMG shell casing that contains the same ammount of propellant as the .50 BMG. The smaller caliber of the bullet prevents legislation against .50 Caliber firearms from effecting the new round, effectively exploiting a loophole in the legislation ."

More

[Wcross]

22. But thats going against the "spirit" of the law..........

I bet thats the response when 60 minutes asks why this law is as much of a failure as the "assault weapons ban"?

[funkyflathead]

24. SWEET!

Standing up for RKBA. Go Ronnie!

[demsrule4life]

27. I still like the

.499 fuck you. More of a ring to it.

[-..__...]

32. Go Ron!

Dear Chief Bratton,

I, a U.S. citizen, own Barrett Firearms Mfg. Inc., and for 20 years, I have built .50 caliber rifles for my fellow citizens, for their Law Enforcement departments and for their nation’s armed forces.

You may be aware of the latest negative misinformation campaign from a Washington based anti-gun group, the Violence Policy Center. The VPC has, for three or so years, been unsuccessful in Washington, D.C. trying to demonize and ban a new subclass of firearms, the .50 caliber and other “too powerful” rifles. This type of nibbling process has been historically successful in civilian disarmament of other nations governed by totalitarian and other regimes less tolerant of individual rights than the United States....

...When I returned to my office from Los Angeles, I found an example of our need for mutual cooperation. Your department had sent one of your 82A1 rifles in to us for service. All of my knowledge in the use of my rifle in the field of law enforcement had been turned upside down by witnessing how your department used yours. Not to protect and serve, but for deception, photo opportunities, and to further an ill-conceived effort that may result in the use of LA taxpayer monies to wage losing political battles in Washington against civil liberties regarding gun ownership.

Please excuse my slow response on the repair service of the rifle. I am battling to what service I am repairing the rifle for. I will not sell, nor service, my rifles to those seeking to infringe upon the Constitution and the crystal clear rights it affords individual to own firearms.

I implore you to investigate the facts of the .50, to consider the liberties of the law-abiding people and our mutual coexistence, and to change your department’s position on this issue.

Sincerely,
BARRETT FIREARMS MANUFACTURING, INC.

Ronnie G. Barrett
President



http://www.barrettrifles.com/ltr_bratton.htm

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSandman]

4. Who ever pulled a drive-by with a Barrett

[DoNotRefill]

33. heh...who ever heard of pulling a drive-by with a...

30 pound single-shot rifle that'll break out all of the glass in the car if fired inside it?

Given the size of these guns, it's hard to imagine criminals using them, unless the criminals in question are big enough to hide a boat anchor under their jacket.

[MrSandman]

3. Have you seen the VPC outcry about the danger of .50's to

airliners?

Look at how badly WWII aircraft would be shot up and RTB. And that was with automatic cannon fire at low relative velocities and better fire control systems.

ed for spelling

[Wcross]

5. Feel safer now?

I don't. When law makers act on fear and propaganda,it scares the hell out of me. Have fun New Jersey!

[MrSandman]

6. Hey, Isn't that how we got...

Patriot Act...
Iraq War Resolution...

[Wcross]

7. Yeah....

Fear sells I guess. Wait til they start fearing rapists! Off with your penises Jersey men! Were afraid you "might" use it to rape someone!

[MrBenchley]

10. Wow....somebody sure bought a pantload full of fear

And I want everyone to note that I am not going to say a word about anyone mixing up a penis with a popgun....

[MrSandman]

12. Didn't see them mixed up...

Didn't see them mentioned together in any previous post.
post 5...no guns
post 6...no guns
post 7...no guns

whodathunk?

[funkyflathead]

23. Disarming Democrats one gun at a time

Yeah I feel safer just reading the bill's text. NOT!

[DocSavage]

8. Very Tall Criminals

The gun of choice of 9 ft tall robbers. They are able to fit the gun under thier dusters when they yank a bank.

I don't know what the big deal is, most of the mags are 5 rounds. Well within the AWB regs.

Never saw one used on the Sapranos, wonder what gave the legislature the idea to ban them.

[The_Camp_Ninja]

11. .50 Cal.

As long as it was done for the children.

[Wcross]

18. I fired a friends Serbu .50 over Thanksgiving

It felt like someone whacked me in the sinus cavity with a pool cue every time I fired it. It weighed almost thirty pounds, imagine trying to carry that for any distance!

I guess this is one of those "feel good" laws, solving a nonexistent problem in the hopes of doing "something" about nothing.

[Romulus]

19. I think this includes *shotguns*

The bill comment seems to indicate that 12 gauge shotguns (and maybe 20 gauge?) would banned under this law, because they fire "fixed ammo"
greater than .50 caliber.

There you go, "hunters and sportsmen." Try telling us you weren't warned.

[the_acid_one]

21. I think any shotgun bigger then .410

would be covered, or so i heard somewhere.

[MrSandman]

26. Once you outlaw one class of firearm...

it is only a small reach to outlaw any firearm.

Wouldn't this cover any .60 plus muzzleloaders too. Ahh to be in the land of the free.

[Withergyld]

29. I agree, shotguns are not specifically exempted

:wtf:

[the_acid_one]

25. By the way....if a pistol grip...

...is used only to "spray fire from the hip" then what the fuck are they doing on every one of Mr Barrett's rifles? Including the models that are single shot bolt action only.

Seems to me that if a pistol grip is so you dont have to aim, they wouldnt be on a single shot rifle.

Would the VPC lie to us?

[MrSandman]

30. No, No, No, A pistol grip is essential to

the action of a spraying hose gun. It is also advantageous on a sniper rifle, or I am sure I will hear. I wish I had on on my .250 Savage. I could shoot half as far as a .50 BMG?

[the_acid_one]

31. Apparently.

When telling how the post-ban Bushmaster rifle was still an assault weapon the VPC said something along the lines of it has a "sniper grip".

So it's an inaccurate spray firing gun, unless it's not.

I love the VPC.

[TROUBLE_MAKER]

34. Made My Own

All you need is an army surplus 50 cal MG barrel, and there's plenty of those for about $80.00

[the_acid_one]

35. Pretty ingenuitive.

I like it.

If I could work any tool but a hammer, I might try it. As is, I think i'll just have to buy one ;)


here's a .50 BMG kit for all you do it yourselfers



For those of you that arent familiar with the awesome power of the .50 BMG, check out this video. Maybe they should be banned afterall.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/videos/birdman_nuke50.wmv

[7th_Sephiroth]

36. i, as the owner of a .50 cal weapon am apalled

my desert eagles have never been used in a crime, so why criminalize them?

[funkyflathead]

39. It's scary

The Israeli Desert Eagle is scary- at least to Garden Staters.

[7th_Sephiroth]

53. if they want scary

get me a pickup truck and a .22 rifle, those can cause alot more fear than my desert eagles

[MrSandman]

44. I forgot about the Desert Eagle

[demsrule4life]

50. AUN: Sponsor of gun bill won't pull trigger yet

A proposed new law that could have banned the sale or purchase of many muzzleloading rifles and the possession of many shotguns is being pulled from the state Legislature calendar and will not be introduced, said its sponsor.

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/107302627723390.xml

[slackmaster]

51. Good news - and a fact that seldom gets mentioned

The bill would have changed the threshold for being a "Destructive Device" in New Jersistan from .60 caliber to .50 caliber. However under FEDERAL law any firearm that takes fixed ammunition and has a bore of more than half an inch is already a DD. The definition of Destructive Device came in withthe Gun Control Act of 1968. There is an exception for sporting rifles, e.g. large-bore English calibers like 600 Nitro Express.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

The law ain't broke. Nobody has presented anything resembling a reasonable argument to lower the bar from where it is right now.

Kudos to the NJ legislature for having a moment of clarity.

:toast:

[SmokingLoon]

54. Yet another reason to stay away from NJ.

My parents got out long ago, "Praise Jeebus".

[MrBenchley]

55. You won't see NJ shedding many tears either....

[-..__...]

56. How thoughtful!

Insulting the pro-gun posters here is one thing (I find it amusing in a odd sort of way), but resorting to insulting a persons family is a low blow; just the sort of thing I'd expect from the anti-gun crowd.

(yeah, I know "ask me if I care").

[slackmaster]

57. I expect civility and respect from the anti-gun crowd

But it seems some of them choose not to practice it. Too bad their bad behavior on these boards reflects poorly on the Democratic Party.