GUNS IN THE NEWS--January 7, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er or violations of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

1. Woman Shot; Officials Question Boyfriend (TX)

"An 18-year-old woman was shot in the head inside a northwest Houston home late Tuesday night.
Homicide investigators told News2Houston several people were inside the home in the 1200 block of Campbell when the shooting happened around 10:30 p.m. But authorities said the victim's boyfriend was the only person in the same room when the gun was fired.
Several people inside the home were questioned; however, the boyfriend was taken in for further questioning as a possible suspect. He has not been arrested.
Homicide investigators are not sure if the shooting was accidental or an attempted homicide. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040107/lo_kprc/1946421

[MrBenchley]

2. Gun bought Christmas Eve (AL)

"On the night before Christmas, Farron Barksdale was browsing at Larry's Pistol and Pawn in Huntsville.
He left not with a sleigh full of toys, but with a deadly assault rifle. He used the rifle nine days later, according to Athens police Capt. Marty Bruce, to kill two police officers and to sadden an entire community.
Barksdale, who turned 29 today, went home with an SKS assault rifle — the same rifle that police say he used Friday to gun down officer Tony Mims, 40, and Sgt. Larry Russell, 42. Barksdale hired Decatur lawyer John Edmond Mays to defend him against six counts of capital murder.
Seven bullets hit Mims before he exited his vehicle, according to Limestone County District Attorney Kristi Valls. Two bullets hit Russell as he got out of his vehicle. The ammunition was so powerful that one of the bullets that missed Russell went through his front windshield, through the seats and out the trunk. The bullet did not stop until it pierced the outside wall of a house across the street, Valls said. "

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/040106/gun.shtml

[demsrule4life]

8. If any of you guys or gals ever visit Huntsville

Make sure to stop by Larrys Pistol and Pawn on North Memorial parkway. They normally have at least 5000 guns in their inventory. They have a very nice indoor pistol range and they give discounts to police officers, armed security and military cops to practice on their range. I have bought five guns from this store and each and every time all federal and state laws were complied with during the sale.

[MrBenchley]

9. And best of all

as we see from the current tragedy, they don't seem to give a rats' ass whether their customers are crazy or shit-faced...

"Larry Barnett, owner of Larry's Pistol and Pawn and a connected shop called The Ammo-Dump, both on Memorial Parkway, refused to confirm or deny that he sold Barksdale the gun. Instead, Barnett deferred questions to his lawyer, Mike Fees.
According to Sheriff Mike Blakely, Barksdale of Decatur has been involuntarily committed to mental health institutions on at least two occasions.
Blakely said Barksdale conceded after the shooting that he used drugs and was on an alcohol binge when he fired the weapon. "

[demsrule4life]

11. Where you should be directing your anger

is where the records in this country are not centralized so guys like Barksdale are allowed to slip though the NICS checks.

[MrBenchley]

12. Gee, dems, who kept them from being centralized?

Oh yeah, the GOP and the corrupt gun industry.

<sarcasm>Guess Larry doesn't bear any responsiblity when a crazed druggie turns up at his counter with cash in hand.</sarcasm>

[Superfly]

15. Yet another unsubstantiated assertion from

our esteemed colleague.

[SmokingLoon]

20. Are you surprised

that certain PGC's (Pro Gun Controllers) would make unsubstantiated claims?

[MrBenchley]

26. Too too funny....

Nice to see how desperate the RKBA crowd can actually get.

[demsrule4life]

19. Something to ponder upon

Barksdale had to drive 20 miles out of his way to buy a gun at Larrys when there is a gunshop (Bradfords) about a mile from where this shooting took place. I think an intelligent person would think that Barksdale drove all that way because the people at Larry's wouldnt know him and that the people at Bradfords did.

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, you mean you think it was because

he was known as the town nutcase?

"the people at Larry's wouldnt know him"
Guess a shit-faced lunatic didn't stand out even slightly among the usual customers at Larry's....glad you pointed that out.

[Superfly]

10. I'll be sure to do that.

NT

[RoeBear]

13. splain this...

..."The ammunition was so powerful that one of the bullets that missed Russell went through his front windshield, through the seats and out the trunk. The bullet did not stop until it pierced the outside wall of a house across the street, Valls said"

It seems that they are describing a downward trajectory for the bullet. How else can it hit the windshield, then the seats which are lower than the windshield and then go out the trunk and proceed to hit a house?

And a for sure mis-truth in the story.

"A 1994 law bans all automatic rifles — machine guns and other rifles that fire multiple bullets with one pull of the trigger."

The AWB of 94 had nothing to do with machine guns.

[slackmaster]

22. Oh yeah, who do you expect us to believe, RoeBear?

The AWB of 94 had nothing to do with machine guns.

Someone who actually knows dick about the subject, or some ignorant news reporter?

:freak:

[RoeBear]

25. Are you stealing someone else's...

...schtick? :D

[slackmaster]

37. Take your schtick and go peddle it elsewhere

Now ask me if I give a crap.

O8)

[RoeBear]

42. OK, that's it!

I'd ask you to step outside, but I have such a pantload right now I can't.

(I'm such an asswipe) :toast:

[MrBenchley]

3. Man Accidently Shoots Brother (PA)

"State police in Uniontown are investigating a fatal shooting between siblings. According to police, Tuesday evening, two brothers were playing around with a gun in their home in Saltlick Township when the gun accidentally fired. The bullet hit 24-year-old Barnaby Shultz in the chest. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040107/lo_wtae/1946072

[MrBenchley]

4. Suspect in shooting remains critical (NJ)

Yeah, gun owners make everybody in the neighborhood safer (in a pig's eye)

"ALEXANDRIA TWP. -- Robert Schaible remained in critical condition Tuesday after police say he fired shots into a Bucks County woman's home, set his house on fire and shot himself Saturday.
Schaible, 37, of the 200 block of Stamets Road, was airlifted to St. Luke's Hospital while Holland Township and Milford firefighters extinguished the blaze at his home.
Earlier in the evening, Schaible fired the two rounds into the front door of the Tinicum Township woman's home, state police in Kingwood said. The woman was uninjured and police are not releasing her name. "

http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/nj/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1073470072290050.xml

[MrBenchley]

5. Police: Quadruple Shooting Was Not Random (MD)

"WHEATON, Md. -- Police believe a quadruple shooting was not a random act.
Four people were shot in a car Monday night on Sawmill Court. An 18-year-old man from Silver Spring was killed.
Authorities said the other victims were shot several times, but are expected to survive."

http://www.nbc4.com/news/2745045/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

6. Lyons man faces charges after shooting over boys' heads (IN)

Another responsible gun owner...

" "Carpenter came out of his trailer and started yelling profanity at them and telling them to get off his property," McDonald stated in his report.
The boys ignored Carpenter, but did notice he had a long gun in his hands. As the boys continued to walk, they saw Carpenter load the gun and point it in their direction.
"Carpenter yelled and fired the gun. (The boys) stated they heard the pellets going through the treetops over their heads," according to court documents.
The woman who had contacted police told McDonald her brother has "threatened other people in the past with guns," according to court documents.
At first Carpenter denied even shooting a gun that day, but then officers found two 12 gauge shot gun shells in his pocket that had been fired."

http://www.dailycitizen.com/articles/2004/01/06/news/lyons.txt

[MrBenchley]

7. Two plead innocent in fatal Taste shooting (MO)

"As two Illinois brothers appeared in court via a computer video broadcast from jail Monday afternoon, investigators scoured the downtown riverfront looking for the gun used to kill Anton Shamon Miller outside the Taste club on Good Hope Street early Thursday morning.
The 25-year-old Miller lived at 411 S. Frederick St. in Cape Girardeau. Samuel M. Houston, 20, of Thebes, Ill., is charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action in connection with the shooting. He pleaded innocent to Associate Circuit Judge Gary Kamp, who set a preliminary hearing for 1 p.m. Jan. 27.
A witness told police the suspect's brother, 22-year-old Shamir Houston, fought with Miller outside the club just before the shooting. Club operator Patrick Buck told police that's when Samuel Houston walked over from a car and fired several times at Miller. "

http://www.semissourian.com/story.html$rec=128083

[MrBenchley]

14. Dog's shooting brings rising crime home (IN)

Maybe the spirit of the wilderness descended.....

"The latest crime numbers for Robert Tanner's neighborhood are troubling, but the 23-year-old nursing assistant said he didn't worry about his family's safety until someone put a bullet in his puppy's head.
Tanner said he was inside his home in the 3000 block of Broadway about 2 p.m. Monday when he glanced outside his window and saw a man with a gun walking up the street.
Tanner's dog, a 6-month-old German shepherd-Akita mix named Peoples, was playing in his unfenced yard with a neighbor's dog. The man walked toward Tanner's house, fired his gun and then continued up the street, Tanner said.
The dog, which had been the close companion of his girlfriend's 1-year-old son, was struck in the eye but still alive when Indianapolis police arrived.
Tanner and his girlfriend, Chassity Newell, could not afford surgery to save the dog, he said, and so had it euthanized."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/109244-3193-009.html

[RoeBear]

16. I wonder how many...

...people went out and bought a gun because of that news story?

[MrBenchley]

17. Man Shot, Killed On Frenchmen Street, Possibly For Car (LA)

"New Orleans police are investigating the first apparent murder of 2004.
The victim was shot and killed Tuesday night in the 2700 block of Frenchmen Street.
Police think victim's car was stolen by the gunman. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040107/lo_wdsu/1946616

[MrBenchley]

18. Police Not Certain Shooting Was Accidental (OK)

"A woman who witnesses said was accidentally shot in the face at an Oklahoma City apartment complex is expected to recover, but police said they are not certain the shooting was unintentional.
Officers were called to an apartment complex at 4614 N.W. 19th St. after a shooting was reported to authorities.
At least three people were inside the apartment at the time, including a baby. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040107/lo_koco/1946917

[SmokingLoon]

21. Concealed carry bill may finally be signed (OHIO)

http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/news/stories/20040107/localnews/180462.html

[Romulus]

23. woo HOO

If Taft signs the bill, it would leave only four states with no form of concealed-carry law: Wisconsin, Illinois, Kansas and Nebraska.

If KS and WI come to their senses, that will leave but TWO "fringe" states.

And the list of fair-issue states increases . . . :party:

Pretty soon only a few "extremist" states will be left to maintain their bogus kindergarden level CCW due process (i.e. "You can't have one because I said so")

[slackmaster]

24. And an anti-gun clown raises the usual Straw Man argument

Toby Hoover, director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, wishes Ohio would remain part of that list.

"This is not going to enhance public safety -- it hasn't anyplace else,..."

So what? As long as shall-issue doesn't hurt public safety (which it hasn't anyplace else), she has no legitimate beef with the bill. It's about giving people choices, putting power back into the hands of individuals.

...she said, adding that the bill "adds to the culture of fear."

She should speak for herself.

[RoeBear]

Her fear might be...

...Hoplophobia.

The fear of guns is as senseless as any other fear.

[iverglas]

41. and

The characterization of someone's arguments in favour of restrictions on the possession of firearms as "fear of guns" might appear to some people to be just as inexplicable as any other characterization for which no basis is offered or otherwise apparent.

And I would expect that there are people who wonder just as much about the reasons for making such an apparently baseless characterization as they do about the reasons for making any baseless characterization.

Some of them might even think that they have an actual basis for speculating about those reasons. Anyone care to speculate about what those speculations might be?

Not me, that's for sure. My new year's resolution is never to question any baseless characterization of anything at all -- or to question anything, at all, ever, in fact. Far be it from me to imply, by asking such bold questions, that anyone engaged in the discussion of an issue of public policy should feel any responsibility not to make baseless assertions, let alone make baseless characterizations of other people and the things they say. Why, for me to do that would be just plain rude, I'm afraid, implying as it might that I harboured suspicion that anyone at all would ever say something that, um, s/he might not have any evidence to support. Certainly if I ever had any such suspicion, the polite thing for me to do would be to keep it to myself, since it is definitely not any of my business whether anyone else does such things. No, I'll just read them and keep my thoughts to myself, that's what. Just to be on the safe side, maybe I should practise not even thinking them. It's a Good Life!

.

[MrBenchley]

43. Never mind

that the rationale for the policy is based on outright fraud....or that the GOP has to engage in lots of extra-legal maneuvers in secret to pass these bills.

[slackmaster]

44. "extra-legal" maneuvers???

Either something is legal or it is not. A legislative body bending or breaking a legislature's own self-imposed rule is not illegal unless the constitution or statutes give those rules the weight of law. State legislatures go against their own rules all the time. If they didn't do it here in California nothing would ever get done.

What LAWS were broken by members of the Ohio legislature?

[SmokingLoon]

29. Toby!

At one point, she was mistakenly indentified by a Toledo paper as the director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun SAFETY!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

28. And, as in Missouri, it couldn't be done honestly

One wonders why, if it's such hot stuff, it has to be done by ignoring and breaking rules...

"Toby Hoover of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence attacked the bill's sudden movement, noting that several legislative rules are being suspended to get it through so quickly.
"There's been an awful lot of manipulating going on without public knowledge just so some legislators can get what they want," said Hoover. "If they really believe this is what Ohioans want, why don't they put it on the ballot? Democracy is not when you do something in secret."
The bill had been on House Speaker Larry Householder's desk since it passed both chambers on Dec. 10. By not moving it along, Householder kept the clock from ticking that gave Taft 10 days to act. "

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1073471404190520.xml

[Romulus]

36. s-u-u-r-e: " just put it on the ballot"

Like the California recall . . . .

Imagine what things would be like if some issues were decided by "puting them on the ballot":

- ending slavery
- memorializing equal protection under law
- ensuring equal voting rights
- allowing all sexes to vote
- outlawing racial segregation or discrimination
- outlawing sexual orientation discrimination

Just imagine . . . .:freak:

[slackmaster]

38. That's why we aren't a pure Democracy

All of the above up to and including gay marriage wouldn't stand a chance if the majority was allowed to decide everything.

[MrBenchley]

40. Hahahahahaha....

Yeah, can't let people actually decide whether they want armed neurotics among them...especially since they clearly don't. And can't actually follow the rules to pass a CCW bill....Koresh knows why.

[MrBenchley]

31. Man kills self in front of police (NC)

"As officers on Tuesday attempted to question a southwest Charlotte man about last week's killing of an 88-year-old McDonald's worker, he pulled out a gun and killed himself, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police said.
The officers did not have a warrant for the man's arrest when they approached him on Bridle Stone Court near where he lives, Sgt. Lee Ann Oehler said. The officers were asking the man if he would agree to talk with them when he suddenly pulled out the gun and shot himself, she said.
The patrol officers wanted to talk to him about the death of Lucille Porter, who worked as a greeter at a southwest Charlotte McDonald's. Porter was found shot Friday just over an hour after she left the restaurant.
Police said the person who shot her left her on the side of Annalong Road, about eight miles from the McDonald's on South Tryon Street near Interstate 485. The shooter then dumped Porter's car in the parking lot of the Wal-Mart in the same shopping center as the McDonald's."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/7649807.htm

[MrBenchley]

32. Catonsville man shot near son dies of wound (MD)

"A Catonsville man died yesterday after being shot in the head Monday night at a gas station while his 6-year-old son sat nearby in their car, Baltimore County police said.
Heath Therone Hamilton, 33, of the 100 block of Rock Glen Road was found with a gunshot wound to the head about 10 p.m. at a Shell station in the 5300 block of Edmondson Ave. near the city line and a few blocks from his home, police said.
It is unclear what -- if anything -- the child saw before, during or after the shooting, said Bill Toohey, a county police spokesman."

http://www.sunspot.net/news/yahoo/bal-md.shooting07jan07,0,6265144.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines

[MrBenchley]

33. El Cajon Shooting Leaves One Dead

"One man was killed and another was wounded in a shooting in El Cajon, and two men are in custody in connection with the violence, police said Wednesday.
Officers were called to the 1300 block of East Lexington Avenue at about 11:45 p.m. Tuesday to investigate a report of someone down in the roadway, El Cajon police Lt. Ron Smithson said.
When officers arrived, they found two men, each with a gunshot wound, Smithson said.
An 18-year-old man was pronounced dead at the scene, Smithson said. Another man was taken to a local hospital with a gunshot wound to the back that was not considered life-threatening."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040107/lo_kgtv/1947284

[Wonk]

34. Curb rage! B'klyn man shot in fight over parking (NY)

Parking is so scarce in one part of Brooklyn that a homeowner defended his driveway with a gun - and his sympathetic neighbors say they might have done the same.

Prosecutors say Baxter Floyd, 68, pistol-whipped and shot neighbor Roshawn Battle, 25, after the younger man parked in his Crown Heights driveway Monday night. Battle, who police say ducked as he was being shot, suffered only a graze wound to the head.

(snip)

Floyd's life-long pal George Richie, 60, said his friend is a good guy.

"Whatever happened, it must have been something that was unavoidable," Richie said.

more...
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/152614p-134362c.html

Ever heard of a tow truck?

[MrBenchley]

35. Didn't you know?

Only a pussy would call a cop. A real man would whip out his gun. In fact, this guy must be a eunuch, because he only used a handgun instead of the assault weapon our RKBA crowd cream their jeans over nitely.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=31904&mesg_id=31973&page=

[Romulus]

39. after living in Brooklyn near Crown Heights for eight years

I can speculate with a good degree of certainty as to what probably happened:

Old guy: "don't park in my driveway"

Young guy: "What'd you say, pops? I don't think I heard you!!"

Old Guy: "I said don't park in my driveway."

Young Guy: "F* you, pops!! I own this street!! You got a problem with that?! You need to learn some respect!!!" <advances on Old Guy>

<Soon after, Old Guy *snaps* and starts shooting *for no reason*>:eyes:


From the article:

Battle had parked his car in Floyd's driveway the day before, then had tried to leave his car in Wilkinson's private spot earlier Monday, Wilkinson said.

Wilkinson said he waved Battle away, but Battle returned and pulled into Floyd's driveway.

Floyd came home and confronted Battle with a .25-caliber pistol, and during a brief struggle, the gun went off, a police source said. No gun was recovered.