2 cop-killer bank robbers convicted in Philly, may get death.

[old mark]

See link:http://whyy.org/cms/news/regional-news/2010/07/29/convicted-cop-killers-may-face-the-death-penalty/42759

2 of the 3 felons who got early release from prison, immediately robbed a bank using stolen guns and killed a Philly cop were convicted of murder on 7-29-10. They may face the death penalty. The actual shooter was killed in a shoot out with police after the robbery took place.

Their crime-within days of their release from state prison for violent crimes- led reform of PA's parole system.

All three felons had had gun posession charges dropped in plea bargaining before their earlier sentencing - if those charges had been added, they would still be in prison and the cop would still be alive.


mark

[old mark]

1. I see the link was bad - here is another to a different version of the story:

Link http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/99478894.html?cmpid=15585797

This is a later story with more detail.

Points - The guns they used were stolen-they had NO LEGAL RIGHT to posess a gun, but breaking one more law did not deter them from their crimes. They all had been previously charged with illegal gun posession, and those charges bargained away in plea bargaining - this should never happen - no plea bargains for gun offenses for violent crimes. All were in early release from state prisons for previous violent felony convictions. This should not happen, either. One of the killers walked away from a halfway house here n Reading, PA to participate in the robbery planned by his pals from prison.They vowed to kill anyone who tried to stop them before they started out for the bank.
They evidently were not "rehabilitatd" by their prison experience...

mark

[T Wolf]

2. I find the collective punishment of the two surviving NON-SHOOTERS interesting in comparison

to the principle that is followed when cops attack and kill civilians.

In this case, the shooter was killed in the event. But the two accomplices are also charged with murder and could be killed by the state in revenge.

Contrast this with how meticulous the cops are, in an parallel event where a gang of cops attacks a citizen, to identify which cop hit the victim how many times. Usually no one is ever punished, but even in the rare cases when the main (if there is one) uniformed assailant is sanctioned, his "accomplices" always escape punishment.

Some animals are more equal than others - even in the eyes of the law.

[one-eyed fat man]

3. Felony murder

While not all states have "felony murder" it is a pretty simple concept. You commit or participate in a felony and somebody dies it's caught in your trap. This is true even if running out of the bank you trip and fall and shoot your accomplice, the shopkeeper keels over from a heart attack from the stress, or someone running from the scene steps in front of a Greyhound bus.

As for the trio of scumbags, they don't rate a lot of pity.

Howard Cain was the trigger man. You can see his fifteen page criminal record here. Howard Cain
Look at all the violations of the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act that Cain has been arrested for. Keep in mind, these are only gun charges. Over Cain’s criminal career he had thirteen arrests for unlawfully carrying a firearm, that were listed "Nolle Prossed," meaning the prosecutor chose not to bring charges. In a further eleven arrests for violations of Pennsylvania’s firearms laws, the charges were either withdrawn or dismissed. In only three cases was he prosecuted and either plead guilty or was found guilty. On weapons charges alone, he could have done 12 years in prison, in which case he would not have been on the streets to kill a police officer.

You can find Levon Warner’s criminal record here. Levon Warner
His is only six pages. Warner is facing three charges for being a felon in possession of a firearm, and for unlawfully carrying firearms, in his latest arrest for conspiring to murder a police officer. Do you think Ms. Abraham’s office will make them stick this time? Previously, the Philadelphia DA’s office thrice declined to prosecute Warner for gun law violations. The Philadelphia judicial system chose not to try him for six other violations of Pennsylvania’s gun laws.

And last, but certainly not least, Eric Floyd. Eric Floyd
Again, hopefully this time, he’ll actually face weapons charges, in addition to the murder charges. But again, in 1994, he was arrested for robbery, and the prosecutors declined to prosecute him for carrying firearms illegally in two counts. Also in 1994, the courts declined to try him for two counts of carrying firearms illegally.

Now keep in mind, this is only weapons charges. The rap sheets of these scumbags total twenty six pages, and contains all manner of things that should have kept them off the streets for good. Maybe you should look at about how absolutely and utterly broken the City of Philadelphia’s criminal justice system is. It's not like there's a shortage of criminals, why the hell practice "catch and release?" Are they throwing back the "little ones" until they get a "real killer" they can be proud to hang on the wall?

That Floyd and Warner are looking at the death penalty is not overly heart-rending. My only real objection to the death penalty is the execution. If they sentence those two to life without parole we only have to support their worthless lives until they die of natural causes. If they are sentenced to death we will have to support them and a few dozen parasitic lawyers through endless appeals until they die of natural causes.

[T Wolf]

6. I DO UNDERSTAND the way the laws are written. That the statutes says "A" (as in ALL guilty)

does not make it correct or fair.

Why does not the law say that all cops involved in a beating or civilian murder should be charged and punished to the maximum that ANY of the thugs-in-uniform are guilty of?

But no! Officer A only shot the person in the leg, so does not get charged with murder if Officer B shot him in the heart. Seems a little inconsistent to me.

This has nothing to do with the existing laws or the relative (subjective) worth that people here are putting on the lives of the individuals involved. I am merely stating that the inconsistent manner in which guilt is allocated strikes me as unfair.

[Statistical]

4. I think you misunderstand felony murder statute.

The concept being that all three decided to willfully violate the law in a violent felony. They knew that death was a likely outcome of their actions. Who actually pulled the trigger was immaterial. If a bystander had been killed by a cop in the shootout any surviving criminals would also be liable on under felony murder statute even though none of them pulled the trigger that killed the bystander.

Simply put they set in motion a chain of events that resulted in a homicide. Had they not robbed that bank nobody would have died. Thus their felonious actions result in a homicide charge.

[old mark]

5. Added: They stated to each other that they would KILL ANYONE

who interfered with them before they started out. The city and county of Philadelphia have gone far out of their way to make owning a gun very difficult for law abiding citizens; Mayor Nutter proposed laws so restrictive that then DA Lynn Abraham stated she would NEVER ENFORCE THEM because they were patently in violation of PA state law, yet the legal system let ALL of these guys off free on many gun charges...It is senseless!
Philly city and county gun ownership/carry laws are different from the rest of the state's, even though there is no legal reason for this. I can carry there because my PA license was issued in another county, but if you live there, it is nearly impossible to get a license to carry a firearm despite a SHALL ISSUE law.

FWIW, a life sentence in PA for a violent crime MEANS life - they would be in prison till they are carried out in a box. The penalty phase will weigh the mitigating factors vs the aggravating factors - one of them may get life because of possible brain damage, but I really think it is all up in the air...

mark

[jeepnstein]

7. I don't support the death penalty at all.

[SteveM]

8. I don't support the death penalty either...

It's just hard to convince anyone of my stand when a thug gets "life sentence," but is paroled/pardoned later. The pro-death penalty citizen has a point when he/she believes the public is subject to a continuing threat due to lack of truth in sentencing.

[Statistical]

9. That bothers me also.

Life should be life. Period. If you live 1 more year or 10,0001 more years you will never see the outside of the prison.

Very long sentences with parole should simply be in years. 25 to 50 years or 30 to 60 years.

Life should mean barring escape there is absolutely no reason you will ever get out of prison:
* no compassionate release
* no parole
* no sentence reduction due to overcrowding
* no release for illness/disability

[oneshooter]

10. Throw them in a cell and weld the door shut. n/t