"Zogby American Values Survey 2004" = pro-fair issue CCW!!!

[Romulus]

http://client.xntec.com/clientpages/oleary/report0104.html
O’Leary, Zogby, SMU’s Tower Center
Zogby American Values Survey I - 2004

The O’Leary Report in conjunction with Zogby International and Southern Methodist University’s John Goodwin Tower Center conducted a survey from December 15-19, 2003 of 1,200 voters nationally with a margin of error of + 2.9%.

*snip*

The poll asked the question:

“Currently, 36 states have laws that allow residents to qualify for a permit to carry a firearm to protect themselves if they pass a background check, if they participate in firearms training and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Do you feel this is a good law or a bad law?”

Americans now feel this is a good law by a 79% to 18% margin. This result represents a significant improvement from 2001 when we asked a nearly identical question in which 66% agreed with the right-to-carry position. Support for right-to-carry is very strong across all precincts with better than 70% of those polled in virtually every demographic in favor of the law.

(Red States support = 80%)
(Blue States support = 77%)

*snip*

Voters nationwide believed by a 66% to 31% margin that there are enough laws on the books and what is needed is better enforcement of current laws.

*snip*

Perhaps more surprising is that 68% of liberals and 70% of moderates disagree that gun manufacturers should be sued when a criminal uses their product in a crime.

*snip/end - TONS more*

:evilgrin:

[beevul]

1. This might be a doozie...

Other poll questions relivant to this forum:

"“Which of the following two statements regarding gun control comes closer to your own opinion? Statement A: There needs to be new and tougher gun control legislation to help in the fight against gun crime; Statement B: There are enough laws on the books. What is needed is better enforcement of current laws regarding gun control.”"

And


"“Do you agree or disagree the NRA is right to fight gun control legislation on both the federal and state levels?”"

And

"Do you agree or disagree that insurance companies should be allowed to ask questions and retain files of answers that are not necessary for granting homeowner’s and life insurance, such as questions about gun ownership or lifestyle choices?"

And

"Do you agree or disagree that American firearm manufacturers who sell a legal product that is not defective should be allowed to be sued if a criminal uses their products in a crime?"

And

Which of the following statements comes closer to your opinion? Statement A: Killing wild animals for food or sport is an American tradition and an essential part of wildlife management. Statement B: Hunting is a cruel sport and should be outlawed.




This could get interesting. I gonna have to get some popcorn for monday morning.:evilgrin:

[alwynsw]

2. I like it.

I agree. I'm getting out the popcorn and waiting for the spin to begin!:evilgrin:

[CO Liberal]

3. Bear One Thing In Mind

Zogby polls are always referred to as Gospel truth by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and other right-wing assholes.

[Wcross]

5. Zogby polls are always referred to as Gospel truth by Rush ....

Your point is? He also swears by oxicotin (sp), doesn't mean people in pain shouldn't use the drug does it?

[MrBenchley]

8. And if you do enough hillbilly heroin

maybe right wing propaganda begins to make sense....

[alwynsw]

15. Careful, MrB

I'm one of those hillbillys and I resent the terminology.

[MrBenchley]

19. Gee, that's tragic

What a shame that became the slang term for oxycontin. Perhaps it came about because of the sort of person who listened to a flabby junkie push right wing propaganda like this on the air.

http://www.wordspy.com/words/hillbillyheroin.asp

[davidinalameda]

30. I am too

and it is an accepted slang term

I've seen the term used in newspapers back home and back home is West Virginia.

[alwynsw]

41. Not to put too fine a point on it

But accepted slang does not make it correct or acceptable language. I can recall a time in my youth when the "N" word was acceptable in parts of the country.

[MrSandman]

42. Thank you

[MrBenchley]

43. Hell, hang around with the NRA board of directors....

The "N" word still seems to be perrfectly acceptable to them....

For that matter, open racism can be found on lots of gun owners' internet forums...with nary a dissenting word from the assembled "enthusiasts."

[MrSandman]

46. I'll take your word...

Never met them. Missed those other forums, too.

[MrBenchley]

47. Hahahahahaha...

It's fairly common knowledge.....

[alwynsw]

75. Common in what circles?

Certainly none that are concentric to mine.

[alwynsw]

60. And I suppose that Karl Malone is the worst offender?

Yup. He would hate those nasty folk.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/bios01/malone.html

[MrBenchley]

61. Too fucking funny...

Next tell us how Clarence Thomas proves the GOP aren't racist shits....

[alwynsw]

70. Who mentioned Clarence Thomas?

I thought we were discussing the NRA and CCW. Silly me. Must be in the wrong forum.

[MrBenchley]

73. Hahahahahahahahhahaha.....

"WASHINGTON, (UPI) -- President George W. Bush on Monday defended his decision not to attend the NAACP's 93rd annual convention being held in Texas this week during an afternoon news conference with White House reporters.

The president was in the midst of answering questions, when Dallas Morning News reporter Bob Hillman asked the president to respond to criticism that he has not attended a NAACP convention since his election and that his administration's civil rights record was not considered stellar.

Bush paused briefly and with a slight smile, answered Hillman's question.

"Let's see. There I was, sitting around the table with foreign leaders, looking at Colin Powell and Condi Rice. Yeah," Bush said.

Hillary Shelton, director of the NAACP's legislative office in Washington, reacted with some surprise.

"He said that?" said Shelton from the group's convention in Houston."

http://www.caymannetnews.com/Archive/Archive%20Articles/July%202002/Issue%20210/Bush%20Defends.html

[alwynsw]

74. And this pertains to?

Clarence Thomas isn't mentioned in the article, but that's beside the point.

Who mentioned Clarence Thomas, excepting you, on this thread concerning CCW and the reasonable inclusion of the NRA as a CCW cheerleader?

Will you answer the question?

[MrSandman]

17. Yeah, that is a little close to...

uh, intolerance.
I would like to know what would have been said if that remark came from the other side of the issue?

[MrBenchley]

20. Hahahahahaha....

http://www.cafeshops.com/bettybowers.8863776

[MrSandman]

21. I know that it is a common slang.

Does that make it less perjorative? I find it insulting none the less.

Pro-RKBA are hillbillies, racist scum, or a$$holes and thus are not credible.

If this is not what is meant, it would be more convincing if arguments did not sound like that is the substance.

[MrBenchley]

22. Hahahahahahaha....

"Until I found out Limbaugh was an addict on Hillbilly Heroin, which means you can call him a junkie, I couldn't understand how he could keep repeating the same lies day after day.� Suddenly, we find that it wasn't Rush the right-wing radical talking.� This was just a junkie's babble you're hearing.� And in ceaseless, banal language.
How could it be a surprise to find something the matter with Limbaugh? All these talk radio guys, or other phoney moralists, usually come up lousy.� You can't be as mean and willing to lie and not be lousy.�"

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1571/a06.html?1629


"Pro-RKBA are hillbillies, racist scum, or a$$holes and thus are not credible. "
Far be it from me to argue with you on that. But look who it is trying to peddle this dishonest right wing propaganda from Rush's favorite pollster....

[MrSandman]

23. And 36 states have bought it.

Please don't peddle for me.

[MrBenchley]

24. Yeah, it's amazing what blood money and GOP scumbags

can do....

[MrSandman]

31. Vermont, New Mexico, West Virginia

All Democratic Legislatures. I'm sure there are more.

[Romulus]

58. Virgina was Dem/Dem in 1997

when the fair-issue law passed. . .

[alwynsw]

51. Funny thing

Kentucky was controlled by a Dem governor and Dem majorities in both houses for 32 years and CCW passed in the middle of that 32 year period.

[MrSandman]

52. TNX. I was sure of more...

[Wickerman]

25. Moderation note to all

There isn't a DU ruling on the use of the slang, "Hillbilly Heroin" I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it could be seen as offensive and that as sensitive DUers we should refrain from using it now that someone has articulated offense at the expression. I believe both parties have made their case ala Rush. Lets get back to the discussion of what the poll means. Further discussion of oxycontin in the slang will result in a locked thread and as the language escalates, RN's - which, of course, do go down on your permanent record.

Thanks for your time,

Lunabush

[alwynsw]

50. Many thanks

[Romulus]

26. Hahahahahah indeed

Posted by MrBenchley

"Pro-RKBA are hillbillies, racist scum, or a$$holes and thus are not credible. "
"Far be it from me to argue with you on that. But look who it is trying to peddle this dishonest right wing propaganda from Rush's favorite pollster...."


Bench calling ME an a$$hole (must be, since I'm neither a "hillbilly" nor a "racist," but am indeed posting info from the Zogby poll)!!

That's rich!:evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

28. Rush's favorite pollster....

and right wing propaganda....the credibility just oozes....

and go back and see who it was who said "Pro-RKBA are hillbillies, racist scum, or a$$holes and thus are not credible. "

Hahahahahahahahaha......

[Romulus]

29. I know who said it sarcastically

And I sure as hell know who then said this about it:

"Far be it from me to argue with you on that."

Mr. B calls ME and a$$hole!!

Man that's RICH!!! :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

32. How are we supposed to know it's sarcastic?

Given that we're in a thread started by the RKBA crowd cheerleading for a phony poll produced by Rush Limbaugh's favorite pollster and a fucktard that used to do direct mail for the NRA that breaks America into "defenders" and "non-defenders." (Guess in which camp they'd put the GOP chickenhawk brigade?)

The poll says that the country thinks abortion is manslaughter, that the entire nation wants a "religious president," and that we've lost our moral compass because schoolkids aren't forced to pray in public school. Yeah, ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight.....

Sounds more to me like some people are volunteering that the description fits them just fine. And far be it from me to keep the RKBA crowd from climbing into bed with those they want to climb into bed WITH.

[MrBenchley]

7. There's a reason for that...

"Media coverage of polling results often neglects to mention the self-interestedness of the sponsor, and John Zogby is a leading enabler. Today, Zogby International's polling reputation may be second only to that of the hallowed Gallup Organization, which makes having a Zogby Poll extremely desirable for advocacy groups across the political spectrum. Animal rights is a lefty cause, but one recent Zogby Poll conducted for the libertarian Cato Institute found that "two-thirds of likely voters support personal Social Security accounts" -- i.e., partial privatization. Another, conducted in 1997 for the anti-tort group New Yorkers for Civil Justice Reform, found that Empire State citizens "overwhelmingly believe that the cost of lawsuit awards is too high." And a Newsmax.com/Zogby International Poll, conducted for the right-wing Newsmax Web site, found in late 1999 that two-thirds of Americans wanted Congress to consider a second impeachment proceeding against then-President Clinton. It helped that the poll primed respondents with speculative allegations that the president traded nuclear technology to the Chinese in exchange for campaign cash.
What these polls have in common is that they reveal "findings" that their sponsors wish the public to believe as facts. And Zogby's standing as a reputable pollster buys instant credibility.
There's nothing new about dubious surveys: An infamous Roper Poll released in 1992 came to the wild conclusion that 3.7 million Americans had likely been abducted by aliens. And Zogby International isn't the only firm available for advocacy groups, candidates and corporations in need of creatively framed findings and message testing. But among high-profile pollsters, Zogby is unusual in the extent to which he has blended partisan and interest-group polling with credibility-enhancing contracts for media outlets such as Reuters, NBC News, MSNBC, and numerous newspapers and television stations.
Rush Limbaugh bestowed on Zogby the "my favorite pollster" mantle, a kind of calling card for use among political conservatives. By October of 1998, Zogby had reiterated in National Review his findings about the public's opinion of the Lewinsky affair. That year Zogby also did some 60 polls for the Republican Congressional Committee. It's no wonder that many today still think he's a Republican pollster.
More precisely, Zogby is a pollster who works with a lot of Republicans, and in ways that are not always disclosed. Most journalists were probably unaware that some of Zogby's so-called American Values Polls were a joint venture with an organization called Associated Television News, which has a very strong Republican pedigree. Associated Television News is run by Bradley O'Leary, a longtime Republican consultant known for his legendary fundraising abilities and for doing direct mail for the National Rifle Association (NRA). Zogby told the Prospect that O'Leary's role in the surveys wasn't always made apparent but, "Anyone who asked, to the best of my knowledge, was told." However, when columnist Arianna Huffington asked Zogby about the funder of an American Values Poll in April of 2000, according to her column, he responded, "I can't say who it is, but he publishes a newsletter in which he prints the poll's results." Presumably that newsletter would be the O'Leary Report. "

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/1/mooney-c.html

[Romulus]

27. *yawn*

from the same article:

"In the last election, however, John Zogby brazenly polled for a Democratic opponent to Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), paying out of his own pocket because he wanted to provide a "fresh challenge" to the Republican House whip."

[MrBenchley]

33. Now tell us what it says about his O'Leary polls

like this freshly deposited pantload...

[Romulus]

10. You should ask them why, CO

http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwh00111505.html

2000 Elections Seen as Stunning Success for Arab Americans
". . . Zogby, a Democrat, was an adviser to the Gore campaign . . ."

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1282/5_54/83591400/p1/article.jhtml
Arab American in Chief: (And a big Democrat, too).
National Review, March 25, 2002, by John J. Miller

"Zogby is probably the most important Arab-American leader in the country -- but he's also running an organization that for all practical purposes is an arm of the Democratic party. Journalists reporting on his activities typically neglect to mention this important fact. In February, when the Washington Post described Zogby's recent criticisms of attorney general John Ashcroft -- including the suggestion that Bush fire him -- it merely cited Zogby's affiliation with his Arab American Institute, which it called "influential." This is accurate, but the Post failed to note an even more important fact: Zogby campaigned hard for Gore and has given thousands of dollars to Democrats, all the time using the Arab American Institute as his base of operations."

http://www.zogbyworldwide.com/int/readinthemedia.cfm?ID=5568
In U.S. Politics, Jews and Arabs Are Now in Play - Traditional Loyalties Shift,As President Bush's Tactics Scare Some, Comfort Others

"Sensing an opening, Democratic presidential contenders have reached out to Arab voters, speaking at an Arab-American Institute conference this fall in Detroit. Arab American Institute President James Zogby, a Democrat, quipped: "They didn't come because we have pretty brown eyes.""

I don't know abouy O'Leary's background, but if he's a RW, then a poll conducted with Zogby should be fairly neutral.

Some people should get over it. Too much spinning will make a person dizzy. :evilgrin:

(Edited to add):

Zogby feels comfortable enough about the same poll to have it listed on his own website:
http://www.zogbypoll.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=775

America Culturally Divided; Blue vs. Red States, Democrats vs. Republicans - Two Separate Nations, New O'Leary Report/Zogby Poll Reveals


The O'Leary Report /Zogby International poll of Red States (those that voted for George W. Bush in 2000) and Blues States (those that supported Al Gore) reveals a nation deeply divided by party, ideology, the presidency of George W. Bush, and values.

The survey was conducted by Zogby International commissioned by the O'Leary Report.

*snip*

The poll reveals that as we enter what promises to be a very contentious 2004 presidential contest, George W. Bush and his Democratic challenger will be campaigning in two different, yet parallel universes.

*snip*

There are significant differences in gun ownership. A majority (51%) of those living in the Red States say they own a gun, while 64% in the Blues States do not.

*snip/end*

I don't know why, but that was all the firearms info that Zogby had in the press release. The complete Zogby report costs $50!!, so if someone wants to pony up the $$$ we can see Zogby's analysis of the CCW questions. Somehow I don't think they probably would get much play in the report if Zogby's thesis is "a cultural divide in America."

[MrBenchley]

14. You should read the American Prospect article above

it would answer your question...

[MrBenchley]

4. Wow...an anti-Dean survey

Who'd have thunk the RKBA crowd would be posting Republican propaganda AGAIN? Well, by now, pretty much everybody who isn't part of the RKBA crowd expects it.

"That polarization today has been enhanced by Gore, Clinton and Dean in their insistence that rather than coming together after the election and supporting President Bush they insist that the 2000 election was stolen...The Clintons used their eight years of the presidency polarizing four, if not six, of the socio-economic precincts we�ve identified leaving Democrats with an impossible political situation..."

Amazingly this piece of shit poll also sez that America is wildly opposed to abortion, thinks millionaires pay too much tax, and want to driull in the ANWR. And it's worth noting, for example that it's question on campaign finance reforrm contains an outright lie.

By the way, wonder who this O'Leary guy is when he's at home? Just ask WorldNut Daily....

http://wndbooks.com/Authors/BradleyOLeary.htm

Or ask that bigoted piece of shit Michael Savage's publisher...

http://www.thomasnelson.com/thomasnelson/authordetail.asp?creatorid=2455
http://www.thomasnelson.com/thomasnelson/authordetail.asp?creatorid=2370

[MrBenchley]

6. TONS more

Yeah, let's see how many tons this scumbag O'Leary generates out of his ass...

"From the O'Leary Report and Zogby International:

Most of the polls you read in the press seem to indicate that the Republican plan to develop a tax rebate does not have support among the American public.� To the contrary, we found that not only do the American people feel the current tax system is unfair to the rich..."

http://www.nodeathtax.org/press/poll.htm

"A Zogby Poll conducted in conjunction with The O�Leary Report found that 72% of Americans would prefer to have George W. Bush in the White House rather than former President Clinton (20%)..."

http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/gt-report/Report84.htm

"Bush Tax Cuts Validated in New Poll
A new poll conducted by Zogby International for The O�Leary Report and The John Tower Center at Southern Methodist University found that a majority of Americans think the Bush tax cuts were good for them. "

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/1/prwebxml97808.php

By the way, here's a grimly hilarious one from this Nazi turd that apppeared in one of the Reverend Moon's idiotic rags.

"Without reference to candidates, the Aug. 17-19 poll of 1,007 voters asked what they considered the most important political, social and economic priorities into the next millennium, according to the O'Leary Report, which cosponsored the poll. It shows a huge fear of terrorism, with 97 percent of respondents saying protection against terrorism should be a priority. "

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1571/39_15/57155875/p3/article.jhtml?term=

Guess not even Republicans believe this ass O'Leary.

[RoeBear]

9. Do you have a problem with O'Leary...

...or his results?

[Romulus]

11. take a wild guess, Roebear.

Spinning makes a person dizzy, you know. . . :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

13. We can tell

thew whole RKBA crowd spinns so furiously that they post right wing crap again and again.

[beevul]

12. So now we find out...

That Zogby is a Democrat.

I'll be back, I'm going to get my popcorn NOW!! :evilgrin:


On edit:

I have a feeling this is gonna be more fun than watchin Godzilla stomp tokyo!!

[alwynsw]

16. My money is on RODAN!

[beevul]

18. Hahaha

If were talkin old humorous godzilla-the one that flips other monsters the bird- I'll say even money.

If your talking newer gen godzilla (beginning in "Godzilla 1985), I'll lay 10 to 1 on Godzilla.

Hes evil!!:evilgrin:

[alwynsw]

72. Can you imagine

the property insurance rates in Tokyo with all the monster riders? Rodan, Godzilla, King Kong (we couldn't keep him all to ourselves), Mothra, etc.

[CO Liberal]

34. Zogby Himself Is Gonna Be On Hannity's Radio Pukefest Today

FWIW.

[MrBenchley]

35. Interesting....

He seems to be a "Democrat" the way Zell Miller, Alan Colmes and Tammy Bruce are.....

[milliner]

36. MOST Interesting

is that after 28 hours (working with the time stamps) and a load of posts, I fail to find any fault of the study.

The messenger has been tried, convicted, and crucified, but the facts are NEVER disputed.

After 28 hours the only conclusion is, the poll is right, a lot of people take a certain liking to the 2cnd amendment, and would much prefer people keep their noses out of their personal choices.

[MrBenchley]

37. Hilarious.....

"after 28 hours (working with the time stamps) and a load of posts, I fail to find any fault of the study."
You mean other than it's a right wing piece of shit?

"the facts are NEVER disputed."
You mean you really think that a majority of Americans yearn for a "religious president" and consider abortion a form of manslaughter?

[RoeBear]

38. As long as I don't 'think' the results ...

...are true I can dismiss them with no evidence, is that correct?

[milliner]

39. Most confused

When I read the post that started this thread I assumed the subject was how the populace responded to the questions regarding guns and the right to keep, and bear them.

Although I did not see the word 'yearn' in a question asked by the poll I would think that a majority would prefer a president with some religious foundation. That's a yes.

And do most of the polled think abortion is a form of manslaughter.
I guess thats what the poll says, your welcome to forward evidence of the contrary

You also alluded to the fact that some poll extrapolated the fact that 3.7 million people believed that they were abducted by aliens.

If that was just the U.S. and the population is 250 million that means that, a small fraction over 1% of the people polled thought they were abducted by aliens. I've never conducted a poll but I would think I could get 1% to agree with any question

[MrBenchley]

40. Hey, I rest my case....

[milliner]

44. Agreeeeed You have no rebutal

But thanks for caring

[MrBenchley]

45. None needed....

[DocSavage]

48. Standard Hooey

Dont' you get it? If Zogby had reported the opposite results, He would be a hero. One of the "Majority" that wants more regulations. However, in this case, Zogby could have been JFK's personal pollster after apprenticing with FDR, now he is just a "Tool of the NRA and the Gun Lunatics on the Right!

It is the same with any journalist that writes a positive story about guns. Worthless right wing Hitler loving, racist hillbilly, sister marrying pant load. But put the same person writing a piece is not positive on guns, well, give em the Pulitzer prize.

Maybe the candidate, whomever that may be, needs to stand up and say something that takes this argument off the table. Keep the status quo, enforce the laws on the books, call the AWB exactly what it is, a piece of crap and get on with it.

[MrSandman]

49. My grades

At least one candidate is attempting this. As Iowa is being predicted so close, who knows who will be the nominee?


"After that, I would let the states decide for themselves what, if any, additional gun safety laws they want. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing federal law and fixing a few loopholes and problems."

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

Dean: B+


"Help law enforcement use existing technology to fight crime. Ballistic fingerprinting is already helping the FBI and local law enforcement agencies identify guns that are used in crimes. We should require such fingerprinting of guns before they are sold, and create a national database of such information. If we are serious about preventing gun violence and terrorism, we need to embrace technology that will help prevent criminals from remaining anonymous"

http://clark04.com/issues/gunsafety/


Two states do this. Have any crimes been solved by this? How much money have these two states spent?

Clark: C


"Standing with Law Enforcement to Keep New Hampshire Safe
<>
Former Manchester Chief of Police Peter Favreau and Strafford County Attorney Janice Rundels announced their endorsement of Kerry at the event. They were joined by Beverly Bacon, Member of the Board of Directors of the New Hampshire Million Mom March and Lenore Patton, Member of the New Hampshire Million Mom March."

A former Chief of Police, a county Attorney, ine special interest group.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/crime/police.html

Kerry: I(ncomplete)

[MrBenchley]

53. Too frigging funny

"in this case, Zogby could have been JFK's personal pollster after apprenticing with FDR"
Yeah, but he isn't, is he? Instead, he plays kissy face with dishonest scum like Limbaugh and Hannity. Wonder what real progressive polls show?

"It is the same with any journalist that writes a positive story about guns. Worthless right wing Hitler loving, racist hillbilly, sister marrying pant load."
Gee, you mean people like Mary Rosh, David Horowitz, and Ann Coulter?

Remember, a couple months ago the RKBA crowd were trying to pass off Nazional Review's sports columnist as the official voice of the National Geographic...

"Maybe the candidate, whomever that may be, needs to stand up and say something that takes this argument off the table."
Or maybe he needs to keep standing on principle and opposing the corrupt and disgraceful gun lobby, instead of climbing into bed with turds like Ted Nugent and Larry Pratt.

[slackmaster]

54. And therein lies the rub

MrBenchley criticizes every poll he disagrees with as biased, preferring instead to accept the results of "real progressive polls".

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Big clue coming:

Well-designed polls aren't supposed to be biased, MrBenchley. If it's biased IN ANY DIRECTION the results are worthless as a means of taking the pulse of the electorate, much worse if used as a basis for party policy.

[alwynsw]

56. I'm certain that Zogby does the polls for free

just to get his far right, lunatic asswipe opinions out to the public. That's why I went into business: not to make a living, but to provide my service at no charge.

[beevul]

55. Real progressive

"Instead, he plays kissy face with dishonest scum like Limbaugh and Hannity. Wonder what real progressive polls show?"

Also played "kissy face" with Al Gore. So what? Sara Brady played "kissy face with dishonest scum" like the republican party, but thats never stopped the anti-gunners from spewing brady venom as if it were the gospel.


"In February, when the Washington Post described Zogby's recent criticisms of attorney general John Ashcroft -- including the suggestion that Bush fire him -- it merely cited Zogby's affiliation with his Arab American Institute, which it called "influential."(see post #10 for link)

This just goes to show where the priority of some anti-gunners is. Its not enough that Zogby is a Democrat. Its not enough for him to criticise ashcroft -- including the suggestion that b*sh fire him.
Its simply not enough no matter what you do, unless you are also anti-gun as well.

Sounds verry tolerant and liberal to me. Real progressive.:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

57. Right wing horseshit from Rush's favorite pollster

"Sara Brady played "kissy face with dishonest scum" like the republican party"
Actually, almost all of the Brady Center's donations since 1990 have gone to Democrats. Furthermore, the politicans Brady gave suppport to also supported a whole bunch of liberal causes, while the donations of the gun lobby went to the right wing scum of the earth.

But hey, don't let any facts get in your way while you're ranting about how awful it is somebody pointed out what a stinking load of Republican propaganda this crap-ass poll is..

"This just goes to show where the priority of some anti-gunners is."
Gee, it isn't us trying to pass off transparently right wing horseshit as fact...it's the RKBA crowd. AGAIN.

"Its simply not enough no matter what you do"
You mean like produce an absurdly slanted poll in conjunction with a humhole who used to do direct mail for the NRA?

"Sounds verry tolerant and liberal to me."
Yeah, but YOU'RE trying to pretend this crap from Limbaugh's favorite pollster is liberal.

"The poll results suggest that the U.N. most likely harmed itself on its decision to not assist the U.S. with respect to Iraq."

�Do you agree or disagree that by removing prayer in school, by removing the words under God from the Pledge of Allegiance, and fighting the display of the Ten Commandments or a nativity scene, we have eliminated our moral compass in daily decision-making?�

"Gun owners were considerably above the national level in their belief that abortion is manslaughter by a 59% to 31% margin. Non gun-owners were more evenly split on the question with 47% thinking abortion is manslaughter and 40% who felt it wasn�t manslaughter."

Good thing it's not a biased poll, or anything....in a pig's eye.

[slackmaster]

59. Let's see if I understand the logic here

Rush Limbaugh often quotes Zogby polls, ergo every poll the Zogby organization produces is biased in favor of the far right.

:shrug:

[beevul]

62. Al Gore must be a winger too...

Hell, Zogby worked for Al Gore.

I'm sure he was thrilled to have a far right pollster working for him.:eyes:

[slackmaster]

63. It's a weak position even for a genetic fallacy

One way to deal with cognitive dissonance is to selectively ignore input. It's a good strategy for those pesky situations where evidence for a conspiracy is scant.

[beevul]

65. LOL

Dang...got some dew on the KB there.


:)

[MrBenchley]

64. Amazing

How assiduously the RKBA is focusing on Zogby while utterly ignoring O'Leary, the far right wing asswipe who drew up the questions and paid for this steaming pantload.

You don't suppose they're ASHAMED of the fact that O'Leary used to do direct mail for the NRA, do you?

It certainly couldn't be that they're trying to be deceptive in any way (chortle). That wouldn't be why they're trying to pretend Al Gore has something to do with this horseshit. (snicker)

[slackmaster]

66. Speaking of direct mail from the NRA

You've never explained how you got on their mailing list, MrBenchley.

What kind of "sporting goods" did you buy mail order?

[beevul]

67. Amazing

How assiduously the anti-RKBA is focusing on O'Leary while utterly ignoring Zogby, the pollster who worked for Al Gore as an adviser in his campaign.

You don't suppose they're ASHAMED of the fact that Zogby used to be an advisor for the Al Gore , do you?

It certainly couldn't be that they're trying to be deceptive in any way (snicker). That wouldn't be why they're trying to pretend Al Gore has nothing to do with this horseshit. (chuckle)

[MrBenchley]

68. Could you get slightly lamer, beev?

It's sad enough that the RKBA crowd is recycling right wing propaganda...and devoid of original thought in every other way.

"How assiduously the anti-RKBA is focusing on O'Leary while utterly ignoring Zogby"
Gee, it was CO and I who pointed out that Zogby sells out to right wing causes, with the result that he is Limbaugh and Hannity's favorite pollster. He's a Democrat the way Tammy Bruce and Alan Colmes are.

"That wouldn't be why they're trying to pretend Al Gore has nothing to do with this horseshit."
So are you trying to tell us Al Gore has something to do with this horseshit survey? What would that be, beev?

[beevul]

69. I like exactly-as-lame-as, thanks.

"How assiduously the anti-RKBA is focusing on O'Leary while utterly ignoring Zogby"-me


"Gee, it was CO and I who pointed out that Zogby sells out to right wing causes, with the result that he is Limbaugh and Hannity's favorite pollster."

""That wouldn't be why they're trying to pretend Al Gore has nothing to do with this horseshit."
So are you trying to tell us Al Gore has something to do with this horseshit survey? What would that be, beev?"-MrBenchley



Thats sort of what I meant bench. Gore has exactly the same thing to do with this survey as limbaugh, hannity, Bruce or Colmes have to do with it. As little or as much as YOU make it.

If your logic is to fit, it must fit everyone equally.

[MrBenchley]

71. Who the hell are you trying to kid, beev?

It's a right wing puddle of pus, no matter how desperately you try to spin it. And it's hilarious to see somebody tryinng to pretend it has Al Gore's imprimatur solemnly spouting off about "logic."

[beevul]

76. Amazing

Zogby worked for Al gore as an adviser, criticised attorney general john ashkroft -- including the suggestion that Bush fire him, and now we find out that "Bush once again drops under 50 percent in Zogby poll!". That dirty right wing pollster!!!:eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1037113

I predict that thats still not good enough for some, because Zogby and his poll aren't rabidly anti-gun. I predict more handwringing over the messenger, and total disreguard of the message.

[MrBenchley]

77. Yeah, amazing how utterly dishonest the RKBA crowd is

"See http://www.pollingreport.com
and he loses to a generic Dem by 4 points, and loses the "deserve to be re-elected" question by 7 points."

Be sure and go up there and put THIS right wing piece of shit on the board.

"Nationwide, 48% of the electorate still supports the President�s position while 45% support what is becoming the Dean and Democratic Party position."

http://client.xntec.com/clientpages/oleary/report0104.html

[MrSandman]

78. Following your link...

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

Zogby America Poll. Jan. 15-18, 2004. N=1,000 likely voters nationwide. MoE � 3.2.

.

"Do you think George W. Bush deserves to be reelected as president of the United States, or is it time for someone new?" Trend includes slight variations in wording.

1/15-18/04
.
41 % yes 48% Someone new


But this is more biased B.S., I assume

[MrBenchley]

79. Now go on up there

and tell the board that America thinks women who have abortions should be prosecuted for manslaughter, according to Zogby.

Even funnier, go up and try to pass this piece of shit you've got here off as the same poll.....