10 year old boy allegedly brings gun onto a bus, tries to mug someone.

[pnwmom]

Shoots himself instead.

How did a 10 year old ever get hold of a gun? Why is it so easy to acquire one that a 10 year old could do it?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012658139_apwametrobusshooting.html

The department said Wednesday that investigators determined the boy was trying to rob a 17-year-old who had been surrounded on the bus by a group of boys ages 10, 12, 14 and 15.

The 10-year-old told the 17-year-old to empty his pockets. The teen feared he was being robbed.

When the 10-year-old reached into his backpack, the teen grabbed him in a bear hug. The .22-caliber pistol went off inside the backpack, wounding the 10-year-old in the arm.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Just glad it wasn't a school bus

That was my first thought.

[Bonhomme Richard]

2. If only the other..........never mind. n/t

[gratuitous]

3. Why shouldn't a 10-year-old have a gun?

In their infinite wisdom, the drafters of the Holy and Sacred Second Amendment (except for that irrelevant first part, and the unfortunate use of the word "infringed" when they clearly meant something else) didn't put an age limit on the Inviolate Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Sits back to enjoy the endless personal testimonies about successful handling of firearms at age 10 and younger that will undoubtedly soon be posted. Don't disappoint me!

[cowman]

4. Jesus

can't you people come up with something new?

[spin]

20. Seriously, you must realize that NO RKBA supporters favor ...

allowing 10 year old children to "pack heat".

It is true that many responsible gun owners teach their children to safely use firearms at a young age. I did.

When my daughter was nine or ten years old my wife and I took her to the range and allowed her to fire a .22 caliber single shot rifle with supervision. She enjoyed the experience but wanted to shoot handguns as my wife and I did.

Obviously she had small hands which rendered firing a full sized handgun nearly impossible. I decided to buy a S&W .22 caliber Kit Gun with a 4" barrel.

Before I allowed her to shoot it at the range, I required her to learn the basic safety rules as well as to be able to be able to name all the external parts of the weapon. Once she passed my tests I took her to range to shoot under close supervision. She was welcome to shoot handguns at the range, but they were secured at home.

As she grew, she desired to fire larger handguns. She eventually decided that my favorite target revolver, an S&W Model 25-2 was also her favorite. I suspect that she picked this firearm as it is the same size as Dirty Harry's .44 magnum and when she walked up to the line with this weapon, every shooter would stop to watch her

One night she stopped an intruder breaking into our home by pointing the Model 25-2 at him as he was forcing the sliding glass door in our kitchen open. He ran. No shots were fired. She was 17 or 18 years old at the time.

Sorry that I can't tell you about a situation where my daughter successfully used a firearm in self defense when she was 10. Still, if I had not allowed her to learn the basic skills of safely handling a firearm and started her on the path to learn competence with a handgun at that age, she might not have survived or would have been severely injured by the intruder.

[Remmah2]

28. How did a 10 year old ever get hold of a gun?

Sounds like a case of lack of quality parenting. Not so much that he got a hold of a gun but where did he ever get the idea he should attempt a robbery?

Perhaps we need to licence parents instead of firearms.

[Bold Lib]

38. You may want to read post #35. Very eye opening.

[PavePusher]

5. Gosh. Out of 300 million people in the country....

you come up with one instance and claim it's "so easy to acquire that a 10 year old could do it".

If it's "so easy", it seems like it should happen far more often.

Maybe it's actually rather rare, which is why it's so uncommon in the news and makes splashy headlines.

You sure don't hear about every podunk car accident on national news, now do you?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

6. Because mummy or daddy, just like the RKBA crowd here,

Refused to put their handguns in a proper safe away from their children. The child probably found it under the pillow or in the bedside table, just like most RKBA posters claim to do so.

[slackmaster]

7. That is a willful misstatement of the position of every regular contributor to this forum

Are you trolling, or just making an unfounded assumption?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

10. No

That's what I've seen in this forum... the firearm is usually unsecured in a drawer, bedside or not, or under a pillow....

And one, not sure which one, said he kept his firearms in his room but locked the door when the kids were over.So no trolling on my part, just basing my opinions on what I've seen here.

[slackmaster]

11. Prove it

Links. Now.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

14. I don't spend much time in the forum but I have seen it

people talking about where they store their firearms. One talked about storing them in his bedroom but locking it when the grandkids came.

Don't be bullshitting me when you don't know these posts occurred.

[slackmaster]

19. LOL! That's pretty lame. I'll be generous and call that "bad assumption based on weak evidence"

Many of us, including me, have long track records of strong advocacy for safe handling and storage of firearms.

Your lexically challenged reply "The child probably found it under the pillow or in the bedside table, just like most RKBA posters claim to do so" amounts to nothing better than a scurrilous attack on a group of people about which you obviously know very little. I'll hazard a guess that it results from your negative preconceptions about American gun owners. You failed to support even your weaker subsequent claim that one person said something like that once upon a time.

Here in the Guns forum we take pride in a higher standard of civility and honesty that is enforced in most other DU forums. Your posts here have demonstrated a lack of candor that will not be tolerated.

Please feel free to stick around and try to defend your prejudices, if you have the backbone for it.

If you have an open mind, you might even learn something.

[Callisto32]

30. That "one" may have been me.

Yes, I keep a loaded gun in the bedroom. My wife and I are the only ones that live there. She knows how to safely handle/use firearms.

I LOCK THEM UP, when certain people are coming, or arrive.

[benEzra]

32. We may have an example of selective memory here?

Here's what I've posted on multiple occasions, e.g. here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=259778&mesg_id=259801

Safe storage means safe from unauthorized access/use, not safe from the OWNER's use.

Here's our system.

Most of our guns are kept in a full-size safe for security, but it can be accessed very quickly (under ~3 seconds). One carbine in the safe will generally have a magazine containing ammunition inserted, with the chamber empty and the rifle on "safe." We may also keep a handgun in a smaller quick-access pistol lockbox, magazine and chamber loaded (my wife and I both own 9mm's). Both alternatives are more secure than if they were trigger-locked in a simple gun cabinet, while at the same time being very quickly accessible. Also, if we so choose, she or I may have a handgun discreetly on our person(s), where it is both accessible and secure from the kids; she did that a while back when we had a couple of home invasion robberies in our neighborhood.

At night, suffice it to say that the kids cannot gain access to the guns, but we can, very quickly. And suffice it to say that we do have an early warning system in place, electronic and otherwise.

You are correct that guns and competence with them are not a talisman that magically shield you from harm. You are incorrect in thinking that we are too incompetent to understand and address the prevention/early warning side of the equation.

[DonP]

8. Well, that's a total crock of shit on several levels.

But you already know that no one here has ever suggested careless storage or allowing children access to firearms.

Anybody here that actually believes in the 2nd amendment considers safe storage a basic part of owners responsibilities. We also tend to think that parents are responsible for safe storage and anything that happens to children or others if they ignore that.

But of course if you can show us anyone here suggesting safe storage isn't important, I'll be glad to apologize. But it seems that the only people that revel in tragedy like this are gun control minded folks.

But then again, it makes you sound so damn "cool" to the three other people that still think gun control is great idea. You kids play nice now, go ahead and keep making shit up.

But ... you left off the part about blaming the evil and all powerful NRA for suggesting that all children should be armed everywhere.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

12. Oh yeah

I've seen it here so it's not the total crock of shit you think it is.

[Euromutt]

25. Even so, a single example is not the entire "RKBA crowd here"

I seem to recall reading the entry to which you refer, so I'm reasonably certain you're not making up that you read it. So far so good.
(EDIT: I see it was spin, which is what I thought I recalled.)

What is a crock of shit it taking that single example--which is of someone who didn't normally have minors in the house and actually took steps to secure his firearms when they were--and assert that that is adequately supports the claim "the RKBA crowd here <refuses> to put their handguns in a proper safe away from their children." You may have come across examples of people not locking their "nightstand gun" away, but I'd be very surprised if they had kids in the house. I do have a small child, which is why my "nightstand gun" resides in a 14-gauge steel quick-access lock box bolted to my bed.

[DonP]

29. Alas! "Oh yeah" - my whole argument is devastated

You sound like you're in 5th grade for heavens sake!

How about "Because" as your next reason?

Listen you (insert appropriate insult).

Do you have anything you can actually point to other than your obviously faulty memory?

Or do you expect everyone to just accept your utterly unsupported "I really, really read it here - and you guys are all irresponsible and dangerous gun owners." Because that's what you clearly imply by claiming that.

In several threads you have been shown FBI, DoJ and CDC reports and you claim they are all just NRA talking points. The only support you seem to believe is the GOP led Brady gun control people.

So far you have jack and spit to support your twisted point of view, and jack just left town.

Now, try and educate yourself on the facts, not your feelings, because nobody really gives a damn about your "feelings" on the issue of the Bill or Rights and gun control.

[benEzra]

33. If you have, it's not representative, either... (n/t)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

15. For what?

Citing what I've read in the forum?

[east texas lib]

13. Oh man, you got it bad...

;(

[FunkyLeprechaun]

16. Got what bad?

I'm only citing what I've read here.

[X_Digger]

17. You haven't 'cited' anything..

A 'cite' would include a reference to where you read it, so that the rest of us could see it.

And no, 'somewhere around here' is not a reference to the location.

[east texas lib]

18. You're offering your version of the events in the OP's article...

As well as your opinion on the RKBA , and this forum. It's not really a proper cite with link though, is it? More of an observation. Peruse the forum and you'll see that a lot of the research that has been done. Enjoy!

[spin]

21. My firearms are secured because I have teenagers in the house...

I have posted this numerous times in this forum.

When I lived alone in Tampa and no children entered my house, I did have unsecured and loaded firearms readily available for self defense. Anytime children (my grand children) were visiting in my house they were secured and unloaded.

Currently I live in an old large home that was once a hotel with my daughter and son in law and my two grandsons, aged 15 and 16. My firearms are secured in a two safes and two locked gun boxes. My grandchildren are unaware of the combination to the any of the safes and gun boxes. While they are well trained in gun safety, they have far too many visiting friends for me to leave an unsecured firearm lying around.

For all I know, you may have read posts by people who didn't secure their firearms around children. If so, please provide some links to the posts.

Most of the pro-RKBA posters on this site appear to take firearm safety seriously, especially when children are involved.

It's very easy to post bullshit, but for all I know (and seriously doubt) you might have read such statements.

You might, for example, quote some of my posts which mention my 17 or 18 year old daughter using a firearm for self defense in our Tampa home. That was many years ago when there was no law in Florida against her having access to a handgun, even at her age. She might well have saved her life because she was trained in firearm safety and very experienced in shooting. The police that responded had no problem with her having access to a handgun. No shots were fired, the intruder ran when she drew down on him with a large caliber revolver.

To add to the debate and to back up your assertions, please post some links.

[jazzhound]

24. You are full of it......mendacious in the extreme.

The regular posters on this board are constantly pushing safety, and would never talk about leaving firearms in the open where children would have access. I recall *one* occasion when a person I had never seen participate in this forum spoke of leaving a firearm in an unsafe location. And that person was confronted by a number of the regulars on this board.

[benEzra]

34. Then cite some.

Meanwhile, I'll cite what I've actually said.

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3139753&mesg_id=3143200

Here: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=259778&mesg_id=259801

Here: http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7093060&mesg_id=7097399

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3369233&mesg_id=3369909

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2264752&mesg_id=2283671

Some advice to a prospective gun owner here (last paragraph): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=151574&mesg_id=151581

A philosophical discussion here (notice that I said "in my gun safe"): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=97165&mesg_id=137940

Or what I said over on Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/benEzra/making-handguns-childproo_b_100237_12954902.html

A safe is honestly the best approach all around. There is nothing you can do to a real gun to make it OK for a young child to play with unsupervised. Even hypothetical "smart guns" would still need to be kept out of the reach of children, and could still be stolen and hacked at a criminal's leisure, so you'd still need a safe even if something like that ever materialized.

The only real drawback to a safe is cost, although a childproof safe is certainly cheaper than a practical fingerprint reader or reliable grip recognition would be. You can get a small quick-access safe suitable for a loaded handgun for $50 to $200, depending on security and features, and a full-sized safe from $300 to $900 depending on size and security level. If you can't afford a safe, a cable lock for guns not in use or on standby is an excellent approach (keeps the gun from being loaded and cycled, something that trigger locks do NOT do).

Personally, I think a tax credit to help working-class gun owners afford a UL-listed gun safe would be a good idea. My wife and I went without a gun safe for years until we could afford one. Perhaps you should attempt to HELP responsible gun owners who want to keep their guns secure, to be able to afford to do so, instead of outlawing half our guns or criminalizing the keeping of guns for lawful defensive purposes.

Accepting a priori all the negative stereotypes the MSM has fed you about gun owners has apparently kept you from processing what we've actually said.

[proteus_lives]

23. Wow, stereotypes.

And ignorance.

I hope no black person ever pisses you off.

You'll be ordering white sheets.

[Euromutt]

26. A .22 as a "nightstand gun"? Highly doubtful

Leaving aside the fact that you can't substantiate your claim that "most RKBA posters claim" to keep a firearm "under the pillow* or in the bedside table," certainly not the ones who have children in the household, you really don't have anything on which to base your assertion that that's where this 10 year-old found that .22 either. You don't even know that it was the kid's parents' gun.

Take the case of Liquarry Jefferson, who was killed three years ago at age 8 by his 7 year-old cousin, who shot him with a gun they'd found stashed in the bedroom of Liquarry's oldest half-brother, Jayquan McConnico. McConnico was 16 at the time, and had already been previously arrested on suspicion of illegal possession of a firearm. That suspicion proved correct. Main problem here was the McConnico, like his father and, reportedly, Liquarry's father (both of whom were serving prison sentences at the time), was involved in gang activity.

It's facile to assert that the only way the 10 year-old in this instance could have come by the weapon was from his parents' nightstand.

* - Which is a really stupid place to keep a firearm, by the way. Under the mattress to the side of the bed is a much better place.

[Bold Lib]

39. See post 35. The truth doesn't fit with your assumption very well does it.

[proteus_lives]

22. Ban 10 year-old boys. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[Euromutt]

27. And ban 9 year-olds, before they become 10 year-olds

Also, abolish King County Metropolitan Transit. They don't come anywhere near my neighborhood anyway.

[jeepnstein]

31. I guarantee...

there's a whole lot more to this story than what the press provided. I wonder why the other kids were just standing around letting the ten year old do a robbery? We'll likely never know because juveniles are shielded by the court from too much public scrutiny.

[Euromutt]

35. Follow-up: 10-year-old accused of armed robbery will remain in custody

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2012672788_--_from_times_staff_reporter_13.html

According to police, the 10-year-old was with a group of other juveniles when they tried to rob a 17-year-old boy on Metro's Route 7 bus. The 10-year-old ordered the older boy to empty his pockets while the other boys, ages 12, 14 and 15 surrounded the 17-year-old, police said.

The 17-year-old later told police he saw the 10-year-old unzip a backpack and reach inside. The older boy was afraid the younger boy was reaching for a gun so he grabbed him in a bear hug. During the struggle a gunshot went off inside the backpack, wounding the younger boy, police said.

The older boy feared the other boys would reach for the gun so he grabbed the backpack and ran out of the bus, police said. He was assaulted by the other boys after he left the bus, police said.

<...>

Seattle police say this isn't the first time they've encountered the 10-year-old. They say he has a history of assault and robbing people with a pellet gun.

Emphasis mine.

So we've got a bunch of kids, ages 10 to 15, robbing other kids as a gang, and the youngest member has committed assault and robbery with a projectile weapon before. This kid's problems did not come about because a parent left a handgun in the nightstand.

[DonP]

36. Damn! Now you ruined it with facts.

It's just another street thug using an illegal gun as part of his "vocation".

Obviously we need to find someone else to hold responsible since it wasn't a parent leaving it on the night stand. If only we had microstamping, or registration or one gun a month or some other law they could pass that would bring this string of bus shootings to a halt.

Now, a serious question, will one or both of these be included in the children wounded with guns stats from Brady, or just the one thug that tried the stick up with the hole in his ass?

[Bold Lib]

37. Wow, thanks for the update. That kid needs some serious help.

Until he gets it I hope he is kept away from people he could harm.

[oneshooter]

40. He will be, untill he turns 18. Then he gets a free pass! n/t

[SteveM]

41. Another example of how prohibition does not work...

This kid violated a number of laws regarding firearms, yet he acquired one and punked-out. You ask "How did a 10 year old ever get hold of a gun? Why is it so easy to acquire one that a 10 year old could do it?" Certainly, you can speculate on your answers (I wish you would), but be aware that prohibitionist solutions -- especially those which aim to restrict lawful users of firearms -- don't really work.

I rather suspect the little punk could probably find a joint more easily than a gun, but that is speculation on yet another form of prohibition.