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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:08 PM Original message |
Dear Rachel -- do you honestly believe that you are qualified to address the issue of extremism? |
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CurtEastPoint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
1. I'll order the pizza... pepperoni OK? n/t |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:15 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Yep, with some of those shrooms, too, M'kay?? |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. I think the 'shrooms might be the problem, already |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:58 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. A "potential" that refuses to become a statistically meaningful reality. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:02 PM Response to Reply #6 |
14. Could you please clarify this statement...... |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #6 |
175. Continued problems with lack of foundation, here... |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 11:55 PM Response to Reply #6 |
203. I would say that any call to circumvent/ignore a portion of the Constitution... |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 02:46 AM Response to Reply #203 |
209. Nah, what we have is another example of BEIKVFMcG syndrome |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-20-10 11:21 AM Response to Reply #6 |
232. I think you may need some Rolaids to go with that... |
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bear425 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:30 PM Response to Reply #1 |
7. I like eggplant and anchovies. n/t |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:24 PM Response to Reply #7 |
56. Hold the eggplant, and YES on the anchovies. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:15 PM Response to Original message |
3. A gun can't get up and shoot a rapist |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:48 PM Response to Reply #3 |
9. As usual, the facts don't support your emotion-based |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #9 |
83. I didn't say not to resist |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:46 PM Response to Reply #83 |
91. I won't argue with you on that point |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:56 PM Response to Reply #83 |
94. No, you didn't say not to resist |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:16 PM Response to Reply #83 |
99. You assume way too much. |
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NewMoonTherian (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-20-10 09:08 AM Response to Reply #83 |
230. I'm not a statistician... |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:20 PM Response to Reply #3 |
26. Tell that to my cousin. She used a shot gun to scare off a rapist. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:27 PM Response to Reply #26 |
81. And how often does that happen? |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Thats fine |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:43 PM Response to Reply #82 |
89. sandnsea doesn't believe that women deserve a choice |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:49 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. Guns won't end rape |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:54 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. But you are always going to have the criminal element |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:59 PM Response to Reply #92 |
95. So you deny that there will ALWAYS be a criminal element |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #92 |
113. And what do you expect other women to do while they're waiting for the world to change? |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:25 PM Response to Reply #92 |
130. Guns will not end rape and your plan won't either ... |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 09:03 PM Response to Reply #92 |
140. An admirable goal, to be sure. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #81 |
84. "Usually"? Care to provide a cite? n/t |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:56 PM Response to Reply #81 |
126. If I may ask, what defensive skills do you have? |
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RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:04 PM Response to Reply #126 |
184. +1 from female 5th Dan & also a CCW holder |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:52 PM Response to Reply #184 |
194. The instructors name is Ed Maley and he is a "legend" in Tampa Bay... ... |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:38 PM Response to Reply #126 |
190. Excellent post. |
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proteus_lives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:43 PM Response to Reply #81 |
154. The point is, you should have both available to you. |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:44 PM Response to Reply #81 |
155. And that is your choice. Would you deny another the ability to make their own choice? |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 03:07 PM Response to Reply #81 |
176. Is is about choice, no? You support choice, don't you? nt |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 07:53 PM Response to Reply #81 |
222. Too often. |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-20-10 12:55 PM Response to Reply #81 |
233. My daughter stopped a man forcing the sliding glass door of our home ... |
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safeinOhio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:35 PM Response to Reply #26 |
109. Your cousin did not |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:05 PM Response to Reply #109 |
119. Absolutly |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:45 PM Response to Reply #109 |
157. Why is it her responsibility to secure her place? Would you also suggest a woman |
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RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:06 PM Response to Reply #109 |
185. Oh bullcrap |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:59 PM Response to Reply #185 |
197. In the neighborhood that I lived in in Tampa ... |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:55 PM Response to Reply #3 |
47. No, but a gun in the hand of a potential |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:06 PM Response to Reply #3 |
50. Perhaps you are right. |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:03 PM Response to Reply #3 |
118. The handgun my daughter used to deter an intruder ... |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:17 PM Response to Original message |
4. "barred from defending themselves" != "not allowed to keep firearms in the home" |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:58 PM Response to Reply #4 |
11. However a firearm, with training, is the most efficient means of Defense available. n/t |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
20. agreed |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:21 PM Response to Reply #11 |
28. Statistics also show that the more lethal the tool of |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:00 PM Response to Reply #4 |
13. Yet a gun is one of the most efficient, egalitarian tools available for the purpose. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:12 PM Response to Reply #13 |
18. why would bodily force automatically put the defender at a disadvantage? |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:17 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. When it comes to self-defense, distance is your friend. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:25 PM Response to Reply #24 |
32. true but that doesn't answer the question why bodily force *automatically |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:37 PM Response to Reply #32 |
41. It doesn't automatically put the defender at a disadvantage |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #41 |
46. why should I explain the morality of something I never advocated? |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:40 PM Response to Reply #46 |
60. Your denial of the obvious fact that criminal predators will |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:49 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. you mean *your denial? |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:01 PM Response to Reply #62 |
69. Alright........your post #45 makes your position clear. |
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safeinOhio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:39 PM Response to Reply #24 |
111. Your saying a fake gun |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:54 PM Response to Reply #111 |
116. It's effective because the risk is real. |
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safeinOhio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:54 PM Response to Reply #116 |
138. for that 90% it work for, according to the stats, |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 09:31 PM Response to Reply #138 |
144. You think criminals wouldn't find out some percentage are fake? |
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one-eyed fat man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:09 PM Response to Reply #111 |
128. Fake gun is asking for trouble. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:06 PM Response to Reply #111 |
135. Never bluff about guns. Your bluff may get called. N/T |
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spin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 07:03 PM Response to Reply #111 |
198. NEVER EVER take a fake firearm to a gun fight ... |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:18 PM Response to Reply #18 |
25. I'm 57 with some health issues |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:22 PM Response to Reply #18 |
29. Attackers will ALWAYS choose someone they believe they can overpower. N/T |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:27 PM Response to Reply #29 |
35. and you know this ... how? |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Do criminals make a habit of chosing victims they feel are capable |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #38 |
45. don't know.. here's what I do know |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:52 PM Response to Reply #45 |
64. I agree with you that such scenarios do happen. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:38 PM Response to Reply #35 |
42. Would you like for me to reccomend some books on Criminology? |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #42 |
49. would these books tell me that criminals ALWAYS choose |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:08 PM Response to Reply #49 |
97. No, these books would not tell you that criminals ALWAYS |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:38 PM Response to Reply #35 |
44. Because it's the inarguable "Law of the Jungle". NT |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:08 PM Response to Reply #44 |
51. this is how people lose in conflict situations |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:08 PM Response to Reply #51 |
73. Certainly there are people who misread and over-react |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:12 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. how about "because 1 side has a better lobbying aparatus" ? /nt |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:36 PM Response to Reply #75 |
85. Yeah sure..........how 'bout? |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #85 |
98. forgive me if I'm hetistant |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:19 PM Response to Reply #98 |
101. Handy dodge for a person who clearly is afraid of |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:22 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. why thank you! |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:59 PM Response to Reply #103 |
127. Re. your enumerations.............. |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 07:56 PM Response to Reply #51 |
224. Why would you hedge otherwise? |
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RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:27 PM Response to Reply #35 |
187. You know they have actually done studies with prisoners |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 07:56 PM Response to Reply #35 |
223. Compare armed robberies of liquor stores to gun shops. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:29 PM Response to Reply #18 |
37. It automatically puts the defender at greater risk of harm. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:13 PM Response to Reply #37 |
53. true ... but not the same as your earlier statement |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:13 PM Response to Reply #13 |
21. I don't think it's an intelligent or moral thing to do either. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:03 PM Response to Reply #4 |
48. Please see post #36 ---- typo on my part toward the |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:26 PM Response to Reply #48 |
57. you really don't know what that reference was about ? |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:18 PM Response to Reply #57 |
77. O.K. ---- since you didn't read my post #36, here it is: |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #77 |
90. sorry that I understood your post before you corrected it |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:16 PM Response to Reply #90 |
129. With regard to Rachel being "anti-gun" |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:29 PM Response to Reply #129 |
131. self-delete -- posted in wrong place NT |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:47 PM Response to Reply #4 |
158. Your right. That is why police never carry handguns. . .oh wait a sec. . . |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:17 PM Response to Original message |
5. If we truly celebrate the constitution and insist it must be revered, then we must also support the |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #5 |
15. Exactly. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:10 PM Response to Reply #5 |
17. unfortunately it's not nearly that cut and dried |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:27 PM Response to Reply #17 |
34. Actually it says to me that we all must be in the militia with our arms at the ready. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:33 PM Response to Reply #34 |
40. The Militia clause is not a limiting condition on the Right... |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:10 PM Response to Reply #40 |
74. didn't say it was /nt |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 02:47 AM Response to Reply #40 |
167. My point is it is not limiting because by the constitution we are all part of the militia. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:19 PM Response to Reply #34 |
55. reasonable interpretation I suppose |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:53 PM Response to Reply #55 |
66. What are the police forces... |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:22 PM Response to Reply #66 |
79. LEO != civilian |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:39 PM Response to Reply #79 |
110. LEO's are under local municipal governments... |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:27 PM Response to Reply #110 |
123. if they are under local government wouldn't they be |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:44 PM Response to Reply #123 |
125. There's a long running debate over 'civilian'.. |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:53 AM Response to Reply #79 |
169. To be precise: LEO does not equal private citizen |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:49 PM Response to Reply #34 |
159. We all ARE in the militia. Denial is not just a river in . . . oh the heck with it. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:38 PM Response to Reply #17 |
43. Why do these old memes keep popping up? |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:39 PM Response to Reply #43 |
59. you miss the point |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:52 PM Response to Reply #59 |
65. You can expand, but not contract. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:05 PM Response to Reply #65 |
71. how would murder be in the same codswallop as nukes? |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:19 PM Response to Reply #71 |
78. "protection of murder" not murder itself.. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #78 |
88. we're back at interpretation |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #88 |
96. The courts have made no such judgement. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:18 PM Response to Reply #96 |
100. so according to you nukes *ARE* ok to own? |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:29 PM Response to Reply #100 |
106. Missed the individual bit, apparently.. |
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Clovis Sangrail (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #106 |
112. I did ... and still am missing it |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:20 PM Response to Reply #112 |
121. The most recent case to cover it is McDonald, citing Heller.. |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:53 PM Response to Reply #121 |
195. Very correct on Heller being a "treasure trove" of information. Anyone that is serious |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
8. What are the required qualifications to have an opinion about extremism |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:06 PM Response to Reply #8 |
16. No qualifications required. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 01:59 PM Response to Original message |
12. Not that I think that this would in any way apply to the US |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 11:16 PM Response to Reply #12 |
163. Doesn't seem to be working all that well in Australia, either: |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:12 PM Response to Original message |
19. sigh--how many guns in the home are used effectively to deter intruders and how many to |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:23 PM Response to Reply #19 |
30. Your first stat is mendaciously misleading... |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:12 PM Response to Reply #30 |
145. what if you added in all the times some drunk brandished a gun at his wife, kids played with it |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:20 PM Response to Reply #145 |
150. Actually, ignoring the 'unreported' on both sides- because there is no way to measure _either_.. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 01:03 AM Response to Reply #145 |
165. And keep in mind that the 1.5 million annual defensive |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 01:13 AM Response to Reply #165 |
166. Oh come on now |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 03:28 AM Response to Reply #145 |
168. One of the best (most comprehensive) articles that I've |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:42 PM Response to Reply #168 |
191. Thanks for the link to that article. Good reading material for after dinner tonight. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #19 |
39. LEGALLY owned guns are rarely misused. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:59 PM Response to Reply #19 |
68. Oh look, Kellerman _again_ |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #68 |
80. Kellermann indeed, and his brilliant 1986 "study" |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 01:38 AM Response to Reply #80 |
207. Actually, that one's from his 1998 "study" |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 02:59 AM Response to Reply #207 |
211. Yes, thanks EM |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 07:39 AM Response to Reply #211 |
213. Personally, I think the 1993 study was his nadir, along with the NEJM's |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 08:11 PM Response to Reply #213 |
216. Yes --- indeed the '93 "study" damns both Kellermann |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:14 PM Response to Reply #68 |
147. only ONE source has those stats? You couldn't reproduce them looking at DOJ stats yourself? |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:34 PM Response to Reply #147 |
151. Actually, no, you can't (for the first).. |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:57 PM Response to Reply #68 |
196. What a great analogy. Both are totally made up and based only on faith. |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:15 PM Response to Original message |
22. And being shot in anger by ex-husbands and boyfriends is a worthwhile price? |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:21 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. So if no gun is available they use a knife. |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:11 PM Response to Reply #27 |
52. Knives require effort. A gun is convenient and very very efficient. |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:16 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. So it's ok for a bad guy (or victim) to kill using a knife because it requires effort?????? |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:28 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. A bad guy is less lethal with a knife, and presents the victim with a better chance of escape. |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:46 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. -- SNORT -- |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:49 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. By the way, |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 03:54 PM Response to Reply #58 |
67. Most of us are not track stars... |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:06 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. I think this one is a lost cause n/t |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:04 PM Response to Reply #67 |
134. When I was in my early twenties I managed to outrun a |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:27 PM Response to Reply #58 |
105. Most people can't outrun the bad guy either. Duh. nt |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:21 PM Response to Reply #58 |
136. I can't run. A fast walk is all I can manage. N/T |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 07:59 PM Response to Reply #58 |
225. Priceless. |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:26 PM Response to Reply #54 |
104. You don't understand, |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:33 PM Response to Reply #104 |
137. Mind if I use this? |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 09:14 PM Response to Reply #137 |
143. Thanks! Be my guest. |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #52 |
76. Exactly |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:36 PM Response to Reply #76 |
86. Whoops |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:32 PM Response to Reply #76 |
107. Its lethality makes it unsuitable for access by the general public. |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:49 PM Response to Reply #107 |
114. Thats not what you said |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:01 PM Response to Reply #114 |
117. You are lawful right up until the moment you aren't. |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:10 PM Response to Reply #117 |
120. going by that |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:20 PM Response to Reply #120 |
122. Great! Good for you! |
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DongHa69 (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 06:29 PM Response to Reply #122 |
124. I will ask once again |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 08:59 PM Response to Reply #124 |
139. As far as warping judgment |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 09:13 PM Response to Reply #139 |
142. You can start with making crime scarce. |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:18 PM Response to Reply #139 |
149. Make crime scarce first. Duh. nt |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:46 PM Response to Reply #139 |
193. How about we outlaw crime. Criminals obey the law right? |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 09:11 PM Response to Reply #122 |
141. Your mistake, of course... |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 11:08 PM Response to Reply #117 |
162. That sounds perilously close to Robert Bork's theory of 'moral harm' |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 06:43 PM Response to Reply #117 |
192. And that is the kind of reasoning that brought about "no prior restraint". But |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:50 PM Response to Reply #107 |
115. Plenty of potentially lethal things are accessable to the public. |
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Callisto32 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 07:54 AM Response to Reply #107 |
171. Yeah, only the supermen in government should have that access.... |
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oneshooter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:19 PM Response to Reply #52 |
102. If they are close enough to use a knife. They will not miss. n/t |
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Katya Mullethov (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 04:57 PM Response to Reply #27 |
183. Wrapping the fingers on ones right hand around the left side if her throat |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 07:45 AM Response to Reply #183 |
214. Hey, it worked for Gary "the Green River Killer" Ridgway |
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tourivers83 (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #22 |
87. Fear is the new why. |
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proteus_lives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:44 PM Response to Reply #22 |
156. Say what you really mean. |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 03:22 PM Response to Reply #22 |
177. Moses has spoken. Amen. nt |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 10:01 PM Response to Reply #22 |
200. Didn't work that way in this incident. |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:15 PM Response to Original message |
23. consider pepper spray instead: you can't use to commit suicide, kill your spouse, and your kids |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:24 PM Response to Reply #23 |
31. It's not nearly as effective as you think it is. Ask any LEO. n/t |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:26 PM Response to Reply #23 |
33. And if the attacker is upwind of me? |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:13 PM Response to Reply #33 |
146. you can't tell which way the wind is blowing? |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:34 PM Response to Reply #146 |
152. "Pardon me, Mr. Attacker, could you stand over there?" Riiiiiiiight. n/t |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #146 |
179. So if the attacker is coming at me from upwind I am supposed to ber a harmless victim? |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 04:01 PM Response to Reply #23 |
70. Never used it have you? |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:15 PM Response to Reply #70 |
148. Enlighten us on the effects! When I was doing oil spill clean up in Alaska, that's what they |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:38 PM Response to Reply #148 |
153. Hurts like a sumbitch, but you can fight through it. |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 11:41 PM Response to Reply #153 |
164. I just watched a video of marines doing that. |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 07:20 AM Response to Reply #164 |
170. There's a less formal training program; it's called "being subdued during arrest" |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 10:51 AM Response to Reply #170 |
174. two things are different from both the prison and military training |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 03:29 PM Response to Reply #174 |
178. I have pepper spray, I have fairly good locks... |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 04:36 PM Response to Reply #178 |
180. I'm the same |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:56 PM Response to Reply #178 |
189. this gets to a key question: how do you store a handgun safely AND have it ready for self-defense? |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 07:24 PM Response to Reply #189 |
199. I use one of these at home for our self defense gun. |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 02:56 AM Response to Reply #199 |
210. I'm glad to see it! |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 10:26 PM Response to Reply #189 |
201. Quick-access lock box by night; on your person by day |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-02-10 12:57 PM Response to Reply #189 |
226. Self-defense experts have a number of suggestions... |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #174 |
181. No one whom I like will be trying to mug me in a parking lot. |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:55 PM Response to Reply #181 |
188. you could also feel the effects of your handgun in a confined space |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 12:19 PM Response to Reply #188 |
215. My guns are carried in my pocket and in my waist. |
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yurbud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 01:02 AM Response to Reply #181 |
217. no one you like would try to mug you, but they accidentally sneak up on you and |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 05:22 AM Response to Reply #217 |
219. Conjecture passed off as fact. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 02:08 PM Response to Reply #219 |
220. Euromutt, you are missing an important fact. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 02:25 PM Response to Reply #217 |
221. Not likely at all. |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 01:30 AM Response to Reply #174 |
206. You're making an awful lot of assumptions |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:52 PM Response to Reply #23 |
160. And why is it that cops haven't abandoned their sidearms for just pepper spray? |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 02:29 PM Response to Original message |
36. To correct a MAJOR typo in original post: |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 05:33 PM Response to Original message |
108. The calls for "pizza" are interesting. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:40 PM Response to Reply #108 |
133. Speaks volumes, doesn't it? |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 02:32 AM Response to Reply #133 |
208. I call it the zampolit impulse. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 03:07 AM Response to Reply #208 |
212. Yup. |
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-..__... (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 10:58 PM Response to Reply #108 |
161. Marching orders. |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 08:11 AM Response to Reply #161 |
172. Beats me; I don't watch television news |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-29-10 07:31 PM Response to Original message |
132. The political cost of public statements such as these....... |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 08:36 AM Response to Original message |
173. Even the most brilliant and insightful people have blind spots |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 12:07 AM Response to Reply #173 |
204. Very true. That being said, whenever I notice that a |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
182. I wonder what her partner thinks about Rachel's position... |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 11:49 PM Response to Reply #182 |
202. I think that she said her partner's sister is a member of |
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RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-30-10 05:17 PM Response to Original message |
186. I figure most of the liberal talkers I watch/listen to will be anti-gun |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-10 12:39 AM Response to Reply #186 |
205. Have to say that I agree with everything you've noted, |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-10 02:44 AM Response to Original message |
218. Update: On the RM show tonight in a segment dealing with |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-09-10 01:02 AM Response to Original message |
227. The pot was calling the kettle black again tonight. |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-14-10 12:00 AM Response to Original message |
228. Recently Rachel featured an interview with Megan McCain, |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-19-10 11:22 PM Response to Original message |
229. Did anyone else catch the Ana Marie Cox segment on |
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shadowrider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-20-10 09:11 AM Response to Reply #229 |
231. I wonder if RM has armed "security personnel" who protect her? n/t |
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jazzhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 02:09 AM Response to Reply #231 |
234. I wonder if Rachel's partner keeps a firearm in the home. |
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