More gun news from Australia

[friendly_iconoclast]

These people need to be told that these kinds of things are illegal, so they'll stop doing them:


http://www.smh.com.au/national/guns-and-poses-inside-the-drug-lords-deadly-world-20100829-13xnt.html

Guns and poses: inside the drug lords' deadly world

August 30, 2010

....Ayik's story sheds light on the changing battle against organised crime and the technologically savvy and highly mobile modern Australian underworld that is much harder to police and is capable of amassing great wealth with relative ease.

The plan's first public manifestation took place in May last year when NSW Police stormed an apartment at Kogarah. They found five automatic pistols, a Thompson sub-machinegun, a Kalashnikov, a military-issue automatic shotgun and three assault rifles. They also found explosives and what appeared to be police-issue bullet-resistant jackets, helmets and uniforms.

The media reported it as a development in the war between the Comanchero and the Hells Angels that had led to a man being bashed to death at Sydney Airport. But there were other links: the man arrested and charged with weapons offences in connection with the raid was Ayik's nephew.....

Late last year, the breadth of Ayik's connections was again revealed when NSW Police charged one of their civilian employees - who had access to sensitive police intelligence detailing the work of several agencies, including Operation Hoffman - with stealing files that were later leaked to Comanchero associates of Ayik.....



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/25/2908764.htm

Two charged over Andrews Farm shooting
Posted Tue May 25, 2010 12:32pm AEST

Map: Andrews Farm 5114 Related Story: Police shot during Adelaide siege Adelaide police have charged two men over shots fired at Andrews Farm.

A man, 41, from Andrews Farm and another, 44, from Munno Para West are facing firearms charges including endangering life.

Elizabeth police and star group officers went to a house in Rustic Grove at about 7.30pm on Monday because of reports of gun shots.

Police will allege several firearms and ammunition were found at the premises.

Officers also searched premises in Chellaston Road at Munno Para West and allegedly found two handguns and ammunition.

Both men have been remanded in custody to face Elizabeth Magistrates Court.....



Andrews Farm seems to be a busy place. They had another shooting earlier this month:


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/crime-gangs-taskforce-gets-extra-10-police-officers/story-e6frea83-1225901827247

Crime Gangs Taskforce gets extra 10 police officers

DAVID JEAN

From: The Advertiser August 05, 2010 8:26PM

THE Crime Gangs Taskforce has been beefed up by the addition of a further 10 police officers, following a drive-by shooting this week at the Andrews Farm home of a Hells Angels member.

Police Minister Michael Wright yesterday confirmed the additions to the anti-gang taskforce, as Premier Mike Rann declared a war of attrition against bikie "pond scum"

There are now 54 officers and 17 specialist staff (forensic accountants, criminal intelligence experts and high-level analysis staff) allocated to the taskforce.

While police say the latest shootings are in escalating violence between rival bikie gangs the Hells Angels and New Boys, Mr Rann said the taskforce was winning its "war of attrition against the bikies"....



http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/man-jailed-for-new-years-shooting-20100824-13lk7.html

Man jailed for new year's shooting Tim Dornin
August 24, 2010

A man who spent his early life on a "treadmill of criminality" has been jailed for nine years after shooting and killing a new year's reveller in Adelaide.

Matthew Christopher Jones was acquitted on a murder charge but found guilty of manslaughter after shooting Brett Bamford, 37, on New Year's Day last year.

The bullet hit Mr Bamford's aorta and he died quickly from blood loss.

He was left on the driveway of a home in Adelaide's north after Jones and another man fled the scene.

The pair had gone to the house in response to an earlier altercation with Jones taking a sawn-off rifle that he had recovered from a tip, cleaned and reassembled.....

[oneshooter]

1. Listen to the quiet. Hello! Hello! n/t

[sharesunited]

2. It will take awhile to wring the last of the guns out of circulation.

The longest journey begins with the first step.

And a worthwhile journey it is!

[DongHa69]

3. OOOOOOh Kaaaaaaay

[friendly_iconoclast]

6. You did notice in that first item that some of these guns were military issue?

How do you propose to remove guns from society when the people who are "supposed" to have a monopoly on firearms are

crooked, or the victims of theft? Are you proposing unarmed cops try to take on armed criminals?


At least some Australian cops find that idea ludicrous:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x314775

Australian cops upgun: "(Victoria) Police set sights on faster reloading guns"

11,000 Massachusetts-made Smith and Wesson semiautomatic service pistols, to be precise

[spin]

9. You are a dreamer ...

and I fear you live in a fantasy world.

[virginia mountainman]

15. It will take a while to wring the last of the bad gun control laws off the books

The longest journey begins with the first step, we are now at step 154, working on 155.

And a worthwhile journey it is!

[proteus_lives]

16. A true-believer.

Creepy.

[SteveM]

22. "The long and winding road" (da-da, da-da). Stay with it. nt

[krispos42]

26. How many Friedmen units do you think it will take?

Ballpark estimate.

[old mark]

4. What was the point of this? People will kill each other using any available tool

as the article states - someone was "bashed to death" at an airport...
so you advocate only the criminals and police be armed.

I'm glad you have no hope of success in this country.
Perhaps you would feel more comfortable in the UK.

mark

[friendly_iconoclast]

5. o m, I was *kidding*. Just showing some of what's going on in the fine society

It's not the gun-free paradise that some would have us believe...

[oneshooter]

7. Perhaps our local Aussie will explane this to us. n/t

[Pavulon]

8. Maybe while campaigning against our rights his government finally got their firewall up.

and we are now "subversive".

[friendly_iconoclast]

12. As annoying as our Aussie 'expert' is, I wouldn't wish that firewall on him.

Although, I suspect he'd be happy to tell us how great it is...

[divideandconquer]

10. Let's give the bad guys the best tools possible so they can kill as many as possible

American police are also outgunned.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. At least some of them steal or buy guns from the military, according to the first article.

And you might also note that the numbers of policemen in the US shot in the line of duty has declined in recent years,

even with far more guns in circulation.

[russ1943]

27. Bullshit alert

Your knowledge of the FACT "that the numbers of policemen in the US shot in the line of duty has declined in recent years," is from what source?


The number of officers killed in the line of duty by gunfire increased 24 percent from 2008, according to preliminary statistics compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a national nonprofit organization that tracks officer-related deaths. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34394121/


(May 10) -- From the three Pittsburgh cops gunned down in one day to a U.S. border patrol agent ambushed by Mexican teens, the year 2009 was an especially deadly one for local and federal law enforcement, according to the FBI.
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-more-officers-died-in-the-line-of-fire-in-2009/19471736

More police officers nationwide were killed by gunfire in 2009, compared to the previous year. Fatal officer shootings increased nearly 26 percent this year. That's according to an annual report released Tuesday by two non-profit groups that track officer fatalities. KUOW's Liz Jones reports from Seattle.
Craig Floyd heads the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. It's one of the organizations behind the report. He says the increase is mainly due to more shootings targeted at multiple officers -- like the murder of four Lakewood, WA police officers last month.
Craig Floyd: "This is evidence, I think, of a more cold-blooded criminal element in our society than law enforcement has ever had to deal with. Thankfully we're doing more to protect them: better training, better equipment. But still, the threats to our police officers have never been greater."
http://news.opb.org/article/6463-more-police-nationwide-killed-gunfire-2009/


Just 8 months into 2010 according to the Officer Down Memorial Page the US is on track (+ 25%) to experience another significant increase.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. The Department of Justice, actually:

Admittedly, this only has data to 1998, but it's the latest I could find:

What of police killed by felons? About 1,400 police officers were killed by felons. The rate fell from 26.44 to 9.51 per 100,000
sworn officers from 1980 to 1998. It is important to note that this rate is far higher than the rate for police shootings of felons.

Roughly 85% of officers killed during this period were white. As more African Americans join the force, they will potentially represent a growing share of police officer deaths. In 1998, 9% of police officer deaths were blacks. Just two years later, they represented 18.5% of officer deaths. Through the early 1990s they represented 15-16% of deaths. In 1998, 86.9% of officers killed by felons were white, 11.5% were black and 1.2% were of other races.

The current rate of justifiable homicides and police killings has been dramatically reduced over the rate of the 1980s. Crime overall is down, of course; this is a major factor. As well, training has improved in many departments — both training on dealing with suspects and on gun use.

Source: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Policing and Homicide, 1976-1998: Justifiable Homicides by Police, Police Officers Murdered by Felons, Series NCJ 180987, March 2001.



Read more: Law Enforcement - Police Shootings - Felons, Killed, Homicides, Rate, Officers, and White http://social.jrank.org/pages/1333/Law-Enforcement-Police-Shootings.html#ixzz0yAGfZAJq


OK, so what has happened to the rate since 1998? I'd also note that at least two recent officer shootings were committed by

convicted felons who had been previously "caught and released" for weapons law violations.

[X_Digger]

29. Also the FBI's UCR.. (up to 2008)

1999...42
2000...51
2001...70
2002...56
2003...52
2004...57
2005...55
2006...48
2007...58
2008...41

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2008/data/table_27.html

We should have 2009 numbers in October, per the FBI's schedule of publication.

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. And given data from my interlocutors' own source, the rate is down 1/3 since 1980

The number of officers killed in the line of duty by gunfire increased 24 percent from 2008, according to preliminary statistics compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a national nonprofit organization that tracks officer-related deaths.

24% more than 2008's 41? Call it 52. Per the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund site:

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/enforcement/


.

..There are more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. About 12 percent of those are female...

...The 1970s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,286 officers died, or an average of almost 229 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 285 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 160 per year...

The NLEOMF says there are 900,000 cops in the US, and ca. 52 were fatally shot in the line of duty.

That yields a rate of 17.3 per 100,000.

More cops, far more guns in circulation....and fewer cops being shot

[PavePusher]

13. How are American police "outgunned"?

They have access to the best weapons (including full-auto ones) and training, don't they?

Please, cite some specifics.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. You poopyhead, you've brought FACTS into this discussion!

Please continue to do so...

[benEzra]

14. Outgunned by whom? The military?

They're certainly not outgunned by anyone armed with U.S. civilian-market firearms.

[krispos42]

18. It's true, but misleading

There are far more guns in civilian hands, and far more civilians with guns, than there are cop guns or cops. And the stuff you can buy can be well above typical police issue. There are a host of scope-sighted rifles that exceed police sniper rifles, for example, and can make swiss cheese out of even SWAT body armor. I don't think SWAT officers would like to be facing down a .373 Ultra Mag.

And handguns like the .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, and .50 AE make the 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP look like kid's toys.

However, what the police have on their side is the ability to quickly and overwhelmingly concentrate force at a specific problem point, which is something the general public simply does not do. When the police raid a house, the entire neighborhood doesn't spring up, grab guns, and go engage the officers. They peek out there windows to see what's going on! :-)

Where the trouble is, the police have a superiority of firepower. When there's no trouble, an inferiority of firepower doesn't matter.

[old mark]

20. FWIW, those high caliber guns you refer to are very specialized

hunting guns. I saw a Winchester Model 70 bolt action rifle in .375 H&H Magnum caliber just yesterday. It is for dangerous large game, hugely expensive to shoot and with very punishing recoil. It was in a nicely figured walnut stock and the price was a bit over $1700...used. Not many bangers will be using these for drivebys.

Police have more than adequate supply and types of weapons...and FWIW, MOST police who are not office bound politicians approve of legally armed citizens. They KNOW they have nothing to fear from us.

mark

[benEzra]

21. Police can get any of those, and then some...

as well as select-fire assault rifles, AP handgun ammo, AP assault-rifle ammo, concussion and chemical grenades, grenade launchers, and explosives, and can buy or borrow armored personnel carriers, helicopters, and fixed-wing aircraft if they want them.

It is certainly true that a a .454 Casull can bring down a Cape Buffalo that a .40 S&W would just piss off. But the police can equip a squad of guys with body armor and ballistic shields that can stop .454 Casull, equip them all with machineguns firing armor-piercing bullets, and roll up in an armored vehicle while guys with .300 Winchester Magnums/.338 Lapuas/.50 BMG's provide overwatch, a demolition team blows your doors, and Ferret rounds fill your house with tear gas, if they have the appropriate warrant. (I'm not saying I'd agree with them using that level of force against any realistic threat, just pointing out that they have the capability.)

The police (and military) are certainly vastly outnumbered by lawfully armed non-LEO's, but if they are ever "outgunned" in a confrontation of limited scope involving someone using civilian-legal firearms, then they are outgunned due to budget reasons, department policy, risk assessment, or tactical decisions, not because the police don't have access to weapons that equal or outclass NFA Title 1 firearms.

[krispos42]

25. They can, but they don't.

Your last paragraph outlines it perfectly. Normal police equipment is an autoloading pistol of either 9mm, .40, or .45 caliber, a shotgun (probably a pump, probably 12-gage), and an AR-15 platform rifle or carbine in .223. When the SWAT team rolls in, you can add MP-5 sub-machine guns, full-auto AR-15s, maybe semiauto 12-gage shotguns, and .223, .308, or .300 Win Mag sniper rifles in addition to smoke and flash/bang grenades and C4 breaching charges. Oh, and those ever-niftly semi-auto 40mm grenade lauchers a la Terminator 2.

The issue is concentration. 20 trained cops with Glocks, shotguns, and AR-15s beat the guy holed up in a Denny's with a Desert Eagle and a Barrett Lite Fifty.

[divideandconquer]

24. Yeah, like those tragic police victims in Hoonah, Alaska

RIP, Sgt. Anthony Wallace, 32, and Officer Matthew Tokuoka, 39

[jazzhound]

32. As always, pathetically attempting to refute a point

proven by national gun violence statistics with isolated incidences.

As has been observed, no wonder your team is getting their *sses handed to them.

[cleanhippie]

19. hardly.

Most police departments are mini-armies now.

[SteveM]

23. You are irresponsible in advocating "let's give the bad guys the best tools possible..."

[shadowrider]

30. And you wonder why anti's are losing ground. n/t