Kitsap County Prosecutor files lawsuit to shut down Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club

[oneshooter]

CENTRAL KITSAP — The Kitsap County Prosecutor’s Office has filed a lawsuit seeking to shut down a gun range on Seabeck Highway, where officials say stray bullets endanger neighbors and people living up to four miles away.
The nonprofit Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club is the subject of the county complaint, which also alleges violations of land-use codes regarding clearing, grading and noise. The lawsuit also says the club has built shooting areas, berms and backstops without required permits.


Marcus Carter, the club’s executive director, acknowledged that bullets could leave the shooting range, but only if someone carelessly ignored basic rules, such as aiming a gun into the air. If they did, they would be dealt with immediately by the range officer in charge, he said.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/sep/08/kitsap-prosecutor-moves-to-shut-down-seabeck-gun/

Something tells me that this is going to happen more often.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[pnwmom]

1. Isn't it a little too late for a "range officer" to deal with

a customer who has already carelessly ignored a rule? That's not going to help the person hit by the stray bullet.

And this place ignored a request to provide a safety analysis. Why?

"Deputy prosecutor Neil Wachter said county officials were actively pursuing the land-use violations while asking the club for a safety analysis related to shooting at the gun range. Not getting an answer, they began looking into the safety issues themselves.

“Over the course of the last month or so, the county has developed an expert witness to present an opinion,” Wachter said. “Without physical facilities, (the gun range) provides a real and ongoing safety hazard to neighboring residents and potentially Klahowya School, Highway 3 and literally anyone within shooting range.”



Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/sep/08/kitsap-prosecutor-moves-to-shut-down-seabeck-gun/#ixzz0z3sA1V6l

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. So the takeawy from this is:

if you disagree with someone's religion or political views or personal choices...

...but you find the Constitution too much of a hindrance to get rid of them...

...just sue the crap out of them until they can't afford to do what annoys you.


Why not work with the range to develop standards and safeguards? Why a lawsuit?

[Callisto32]

10. Because:

Unfortunately, using the cudgel of the state to beat down on people has become first instinct for many. A lot of people think that if you do something with your property that they don't like (be it growing pot, or using it as a shooting range) they should be allowed to FORCE you to their will for any number of nebulous reasons.

It is almost always best to deal with things in a neighborly way. However, it is often the case that even when this is tried people go into these things with a hostile/defensive attitude especially where guns are involved, and things quickly devolve into legal browbeating.

[rocktivity]

3. I had to drive past a police shooting range where I used to live

which I did VERRRRY cautiously...

:scared:
rocktivity

[tourivers83]

4. The sound of gunfire off in the distance. I'm getting used to it now.

My cousin had a county police shooting range down in the valley below her home. It was just a big open field with a dirt bank used as a backstop. When the swat teams opened up with what I guess were MP5 machine guns it was like Bagdad on a bad day. Windows would rattle, dogs would bark. Sometimes they would be down there till eleven at night and it was unreal how much ammo they would waste. The local residents were finally able to apply enough political pressure to get it shut down due to noise and safety concerns.

:toast:

[PavePusher]

5. Training is never a "waste" of ammo.

And now your cousins community will have less-well trained "only ones".

Congrats.

Everyone who was a party to that complaining should be banned from sueing the police for any damage/injury caused by accidental gun shots.

[tourivers83]

19. Training is never a "waste" of ammo.

Up to a point I agree but I have been told by my brother, “practice is good. It teaches you the mechanics of a firearm but it never in reality prepares you for a real world shooting.” And he works in law enforcement. One other thing about that range is that it did not get shut down till a developer started building 750000USD houses on the other side of the valley.

:evilgrin:

[one-eyed fat man]

7. Noise?

I live next to Fort Knox.



Night fire tank guns are clearly heard 20 miles away.



Manuever training still takes place day and night.



This is the urban combat training area. It is used for heliborne assault, as well as ground training. Attack helicopters and USAF aircraft also use the impact area for gunnery and bombing practice.

The sound of gunfire just makes me homesick!

[oneshooter]

11. Have they fully moved the Armor Museum there yet? n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

13. Sadly, yes

They sent the prototype Bell Cobra (the one with a civilian registration, retractable skids, and nice upholstery) and the Cheyenne gunship down to Mother Rucker. Most of the tanks, including all the lovingly restored ones that ran have been hauled down to Benning and are sitting out in a field rusting waiting for a building.

There are still some historical vehicles scattered around the post, but they take a few more out here on a lowboy every week. The ranges are still in use as classes are still finishing here for the Armor School.

It is heartbreaking to see the Armor insignia gone from the water tower after 70 years. Access to the 1000 yard range at Scott Mountain and French Range has become an absolute pain. Used to be you showed your military ID at the gate and no hassles. Now you have to give them, in writing, make model, serial number etc of every gun you plan to bring, and all your particulars 10 days in advance.

No more, calling your buddy Saturday morning, popping over to hunt control to sign for a hunting area and going after quail by lunch time.

It couldn't hardly be more asinine if the made Sarah Brady Provost Marshall! At least those piss-ant Accessions Command staff weenies haven't spiked the salute cannon and they still play, "Retreat" and "To the Colors!" but you don't hear many of the traditional bugle calls any more either! If you are familiar with the post and remember the flagpole and parade ground at Brooks Field, it's not there anymore. The built a huge new building on Eisenhower Ave. out past where CIF was. That is now post HQ and a three star billet.

[oneshooter]

15. I understood that they were ready for the move!

To leave the collection in the mud should be a felony!
I was a 0311, a Mud Marine. Got used to the rumble of Arty a long time ago. Rumble good, whistle bad! Was in sight of a Navy call fire. Two heavy cruisers and a couple of Destroyers fireing on a ground attack. I was with the Company of Marines holding a hilltop that Charlie wanted. MY GOD what a sight! 18-8" and 10-5" all firing on a front 1200yds wide.
Was wounded and Med-Evaced the next day. Lots of landing room for the Helos.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[one-eyed fat man]

17. Naval gunfire, artillery, and B-52's

They weren't firing for my unit, but we did see what we were told was the New Jersey's 16 inchers supporting someone. "Arclights" were really impressive. You could several miles from a B-52 strike and feel the earth tremble under your feet.

The Army has no artillery piece bigger than a 155mm anymore, with M109A6 the current SP gun. The MLRS, Multiple Launch Rocket System, or sometimes the "Grid Square Removal Service" is still in use. One launcher firing twelve rockets can completely blanket one square kilometer with submunitions.

The towed 155 gun is the same one the USMC developed.

[PavePusher]

12. I used to be stationed at Hurlburt Field AFB, next door to Eglin AFB and Range.

Home of the venerable AC-130.

Howitzers from the sky, oh my.

Not to mention the F-15's, -16's, -18's, etc., from the other nearby USAF and Navy bases.

"Steel Rain" is like a lullaby to me. I usually wake up when it stops.

[one-eyed fat man]

14. Absolutely!!!!!

I can sleep through an 8 inch battery firing. Anything that howitzer is shooting at is 30 miles away and not a threat. Let somebody pop off small arms fire and instantly awake and ready.

And anyone who has really spent any time in ground combat can identify weapons by the sound. Not just lumped into "Theirs" and "Ours," but often make, model and caliber.

[PavePusher]

16. My first two trips to Iraq, Balad AB did not yet have the anti-artillery...

rotary cannons installed yet. My third trip, my hooch was situated less than 100yds from one. They test fired it that first night. I hadn't been briefed... Sounded like Ghod's own zipper in action and scared the absolute hell out of me. I already had "steel rain" reflexes from rocket and mortar attacks from the previous tours, so rolled off the edge of the bunk to the floor, onto my flak vest, grabbed helmet and edge of vest while rolling opposite way under bed, pulling helmet and vest over me, then (big dummy) tried to sit up while half-asleep, screaming "W. T. F. was that?!?!?!" to my room-mate, bashed head into bottom of bunk, fell back and hit head on floor and edge of helmet.

Room-mate nearly pissed himself laughing, while I thrashed around on floor, half-stunned from head trauma, sheet had tangled in my legs during the circus act, so I couldn't move feet properly, room-mate by now nearly hypoxic....

After a week or two, you learned to half-wake, listen for impacts, then drift back off again. Between that sort of stuff and being a military aircraft mechanic, I have some very odd reactions to sudden loud noises, and sub-consiously always plot the route to the nearest concealment/cover.

I got my room-mate back but good before he left, but that's a story for another day....

[Euromutt]

24. I've lived in a brownstone, I've lived in a ghetto, I've lived all over this town

I don't really have anything to contribute; I just wanted to let on I'd caught the "Life During Wartime" reference.

[tourivers83]

26. Thank you.

I do that sort of thing a lot and that is a cool song.

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[SteveM]

22. I used a shooting range along a very bush 4-lane near Austin...

until the old guy sold out his property. The shooting facilities were quite visible from the highway. Why, it was so dangerous that he had contracts with local LEOs to use his facility to fulfill their professional obligations with regards firearms practice.

It would be good to know the history of the facility, esp. with regards "who's on first?" Another range in the hills NW of Austin reconfigured its berms and constructed booths with slat opennings to prevent deer-rifle rounds from arcing above a certain height, to wit, the berm. The county worked with the range operator to keep things safe. Of course, indoor ranges in the area are armored. The technical solutions to ranges do not appear to be insurmountable.

[PavePusher]

6. Judging by the info on errent bullets in the article...

(i.e. NONE), and the number of "what-ifs" in the body and the comments section, it sounds like there is a small group of Antis/NIMBYs that want to shut the place down.

If you don't like shooting ranges, maybe you shouldn't fucking well move in next to one.

[shadowrider]

8. Kinda like the people that move within smelling distance of a hog/chicken farm then complain about

the stink.

[Callisto32]

9. Hey, nobody should be able to do anything with their property that I don't like.

Am I wrong?

[pipoman]

18. I don't suppose Wal-Mart or some wealthy developer

has their eye on this parcel?

[Callisto32]

20. If that were the case why all the hemming and hawing?

Always remember that you don't own anything, and the government can take your land to give it to someone else "for the greater good." All they would need to do is make an "economic development plan" or some other B.S.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2004/2004_04_108

[SteveM]

23. That SCOTUS decision was the crappiest any liberal ever signed off on.

Jesus, it openned the way for every jury-rigged-financed development scheme that can be floated. I understand the developer involved in the question before the SCOTUS has bellied up, leaving scarred up land where people used to live. When there was a Texas Constitutional amendment proposed to prevent this kind of thing, I voted for it, flaws and all.

[Katya Mullethov]

33. Kelo was like that first big double shot of tequila

It made everything that came after a little easier to swallow .

[one-eyed fat man]

21. The range has been there for 84 years!!!!!!!!

One more time!!!

"Carter said the club has an excellent safety record over its 84 years of history and that should speak for itself.

Nothing new here. Same problem with a little different trim.

We have them. DINKS from Louisville and their 6 acre hobby farms on the south end of the county. They whine and snivel over the "exhaust" from Amish buggies splashing onto their Lincoln Navigators and Range Rovers when they drive to town.

The brain dead morons who buy the new houses next to the airport that's been their since Lindbergh was flying the mail and DEMAND it be closed because it of airplane noise.

At least in one case where the smug bastards who forced an airport to close regretted it when it reopened as a drag strip. A couple double AA fuelers are one hell of a lot louder then a flock of Cessna 150's!

One other beautiful case of unintended consequences, the DoD handled noise complaints at one airbase by closing it. It gave that bunch of idiots something to discuss while standing in the unemployment line.

[Taitertots]

25. Has anyone ever been hit by a bullet that went over a shooting range berm?

[Euromutt]

27. I don't seen any evidence that there's been a stray bullet in 15 years

“Based on industry standards of live-fire range operation ... it is my firm belief that bullets fired at KRRC are leaving the confines of the range due to ricochets and misdirected and accidental discharges ...,” <Koon> said.

That's nice, but Mr. Koon's "firm belief" isn't evidence. According to the article, a stray bullet allegedly fired from the range came through somebody's window in 1995. The fact that there are no reports of more recent incidents indicates that there haven't been any.

[Endangered Specie]

28. So they are suing them because they BUILT THE THINGS DESIGNED TO STOP THE BULLETS???

"The lawsuit also says the club has built shooting areas, berms and backstops without required permits."

Durrr, its like people/developers just buy/build houses without checking out whats around.
Yes, ANY range is going to have the occasional bullet go off the property, but certainly not that many, and whether they are lethal at that point is even more unlikely (richochets, shot, etc...).

Houses are built next to other things far more dangerous, like, say, chemical/industrial plants, prisons, airpots (crashing airplanes), train stations (I bet alot of people would freak if they knew just what kind of nasty chemicals get transported by train through the neighborhood), hell even a section of road is dangerous.... wasn't that long ago someone ran off the road and plowed into a nearby apartment ... nearly killing the tenant in his living room.

[Euromutt]

30. Oh yeah, I'd meant to comment on that

That seems like a "heads I win, tails you lose" setup; the county bitches that you're not doing enough to prevent stray bullets, and when you take measures to stop stray bullets, the county bitches that you didn't ask them for permission first. I mean, make up your fucking mind.

[Mandell]

29. 4 miles...

The only round that could travel 4 miles with any force would be a .50BMG round fired out of a $4k sniper rifle. It should be easy to find out who owns one at the club. Otherwise the bullet would fall out of the sky as a spent round with as much force as a medium sized hail stone, hardly a threat to life and limb of the community.

[oneshooter]

31. BUT, but, but they are BULLETS,and they KILL and I don't like them!!! n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

32. Sparky is still pestering Valentine down here

You remember , the one in Swinney Switch .

He keeps pressing the point and the village keeps voting unanimously for him to STFU and go back to San Antonio where the wall of entry foyer was being used as a berm . It isnt even newsworthy for the local rags anymore .