U.S. weapons fuel drug violence, Mexico's president says

[Judi Lynn]

Source: CNN

U.S. weapons fuel drug violence, Mexico's president says
By the CNN Wire Staff
September 11, 2010 -- Updated 1525 GMT (2325 HKT)

Mexico City, Mexico (CNN) -- As Mexico approaches its bicentennial, Mexico's president says his country is fighting significant security problems -- many of which are fueled by U.S. policies.

"We live next to the world's largest drug consumer, and all the world wants to sell them drugs through our door and our window. And we live next to the world's largest arms seller, which is supplying the criminals," Mexican President Felipe Calderon told CNN en Español Friday.

Speaking less than a week before his country's bicentennial, Calderon discussed a wide range of topics, including immigration policy, his favorite Mexican independence hero, his Twitter account and America's role in Mexico's drug war.

He said many of America's leaders have acknowledged a shared responsibility in drug violence.



Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/09/11/mexico.president.interview/index.html#fbid=q1U2OJnT7yd&wom=false

[Kringle]

1. simple solution to this, seal the border .nt

[unhappycamper]

2. Or perhaps we could stop making weapons.

Just saying.....

[Pavulon]

4. I agree, all US Defense contractors should stop selling their military letterhead weapons

That would be the colt m4, m16A4, frag grenades, and any other weapon that would actually be used in their spats. A semi automatic rifle is not the issue.

[Gecko6400]

9. But, but then

the Mexican Army and Federal Police wouldn't have any trading material!
:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

3. As though sealing our borders were simple.

[Kringle]

6. inactions have consequences

Mexico does not want to seal the border

sow the wind.
reap the whirlwind of ...

drugs cartels, human trafficing,
corruption,
drugs everywhere
drugs everywhere
drugs everywhere
drugs everywhere
drugs everywhere
drugs everywhere

[ronnie624]

8. Your anxiety is a result of fearmongering by politicians and corporate owned media.

More U.S.-Mexico border crime a myth, officials say

The nightly news often highlights drug-related shootouts and raids on drop houses filled with immigrants.

But with some 800 federal agents now working in the city of 20,000, crimes affecting local residents are few and far between, Kirkham said.

Crime is more prevalent in Phoenix. But that city, falsely rumored to be the No. 2 kidnapping capital in the world this year, and other major metro areas in Arizona have seen a steady decrease in violent crime over the past three years, FBI crime statistics show.

*****
Gilot’s group commissioned the study of border residents, which questioned residents of Douglas, Nogales and Yuma, Ariz., as well El Centro, Calif., Las Cruces, N.M., and El Paso, Laredo and McAllen, Texas. Residents in each city reported overwhelmingly that they felt safe.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9119309>

[SteveM]

35. And to think pro-2A folks are accused of "paranoia" and "living in fear." nt

[MH1]

5. or legalize and grow our own pot

that wouldn't solve all the problem but would cut out a big chunk of it.

[Euromutt]

25. It would certainly be a start

Marijuana sales in the U.S. reportedly provide around 60% of the cartels' revenues, so that would deprive them of a sizeable amount of operating capital.

[SteveM]

34. Which one? The really good stuff comes from Canada -- as in booze prohibition. nt

[lunatica]

7. There's a great deal of disconnect in this country

Calderon is right. We protect our interests. We consume the drugs at the same time we condemn the drug cartels while we're selling them weapons so they can keep us supplied with drugs. We want to seal the borders so the Mexicans won't cross into our pristine country but we want to be kept well supplied with our drugs of choice, especially the cool ones like cocaine and pot. The less exotic ones like meth we cook ourselves.

[Igel]

18. You misconstrue the disconnect.

Do you really think that most of the kids and adults who buy the pot and cocaine are rabit anti-immigrant zealots, the same people selling the coyotes weapons?

I don't. You've conflated different, opposing, even antagonistic subgroups into one. It's like asking why a nation of pacifist Jewish progressives of African descent insists on working for AIG and Goldman Sachs when they're not joining the military to fight in Afghanistan after dropping out from cushy up-scale failing urban schools.

Calderon is partly right; since he knowingly leaves out "partly" he misleads by omission. A majority of traceable weapons originate in the US; some are imported for government use by the Mexican government, many are illegal in the US, some are probably stolen from the US military; some are modified in the US or Mexican and would be illegal in the US as modified. I've seen some quasi-incoherent articles pointing out the kinds of weapons that originate in the US, many of which are simply not produced or legal for sale to the general population in the US--they're illegally transshipped. But a majority of all weapons confiscated are not traceable, so we--and Calderon--only knows about a fairly small minority of the weapons. But it's politically inexpedient to allow that most of the weapons are probably smuggled into Mexico not from the Great Northern Enemy, and that the All-Knowing Government doesn't know or want to say where the majority originate.

[lunatica]

21. Sometimes it's easier to see the big picture rather than get caught up in confusing details

I'm talking about arms sales globally, not to some coyote. The US sells 41% of all weapons sold to the world. The next largest seller is Russia at 17%. That means the US sells weapons for wars, drugs, human trafficking, you name it. Mexico is certainly not the only place that gets our guns. And I'll bet that most of those kids and adults you talk about probably simply ignore the facts of how it's all connected. So yes, the US is disconnected like a schizophrenic is to reality, and not just on this issue. We create the problem because in many ways we cause it then we think we can fix it by waging war against other countries and organizations, all the while selling them the equipment to resist our war and still rake in our money. Thus the disconnect. It's called Capitalism. It's all OK as long as someone is making a buck from it.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations

[Euromutt]

24. Did you notice that reports doesn't cover small arms and light weapons?

The weapons categories it covers are armored fighting vehicles, military aircraft (including transports and trainers), combat surface vessels and submarines, missiles of all descriptions and artillery over 100mm in caliber. Most of these aren't the kind of weapons systems that get used by traffickers in humans and illicit drugs. Note the report also includes spare parts and maintenance contracts for previously sold systems; you can't do a lot of damage with a spare jet engine by itself.

This report does not cover man-portable weapons; the Russians and the Chinese could be selling millions more rifles, machine guns and rocket launchers to developing countries than the U.S. does, and it wouldn't show up in this report.

[SteveM]

37. "...it wouldn't show up in this report." Ollie could verify that. nt

[Euromutt]

38. That's actually a very thought-provoking allusion

As we know, the CIA ran weapons to both the Afghan mujehaddin and the Nicaraguan Contras during the 1980s, but in the interests of plausible deniability, none of those weapons were of American manufacture. Most of them were Chinese-made copies of Soviet designs (AK-47s, RPG-7s, DShK HMGs), with a leavening of Brazilian made FALs to the Contras. So in the scheme of running guns to the developing world, do we attribute that to the U.S. or to China (who knew full well where the guns were going)?

[SteveM]

36. I don't see your point, here...

Much of the meth is ALREADY "cooked" here -- most often by subsidiaries of the cartels who have a firm foothold in our country.

The problem is prohibition. Prohibition of drugs (as with alcohol prohibition and the looming tobacco prohibition) WILL and HAS resulted in powerful gangs & cartels taking over the business of supply.

Don't you agree that a better plan is to legalize and regulate the production of drugs -- esp. ganja -- and produce the stuff internally, keeping the price at a point below that cartels'?

[nradisic]

10. What a deal...

We send you weapons and you send us drugs....Tony Montana would be proud...

[totodeinhere]

11. Our demand for drugs does exacerbate the problem, that's for sure. And...

I have no doubt that many of the weapons come from here. But the last time I heard what the drug cartels are doing in Mexico is illegal. We cannot give the drug pushers a pass just because US demand contributes to the problem.

I would favor legalizing drugs under controlled circumstances in the same way that alcohol is legal. That would nip this problem in the bud IMO. But in the mean time those criminals in Mexico need to be hunted down, put on trial, and if found guilty severely punished.

[X_Digger]

12. Maybe from US Sales to the military & police..

Most of these weapons aren't available on the civilian market-

[bossy22]

13. Actually its your own military that is supplying the weapons

last time i checked RPGs, Grenades, and high-grade explosives are not readily available at your local gun shop. The real truth is that less than 25% of the weapons used by the cartels originated in the U.S.

[krispos42]

14. Fail

Something like 80% of the weapons serial numbers they submit to the ATF come back as US-sold weapons. However, they only submit about one-tenth of all guns' serial numbers to the ATF.

So, the Mexican government is only submitting serial numbers to the ATF they think will have a good chance of coming back to a US civilian sale.




Of course, all those government-to-government sales also fit under the headline. If the Bush adminstration gave 10,000 M-16s to the Mexican government, and some of them wound up at the scene of a drug cartel mass shooting, then "U.S. weapons fuel drug violence, Mexico's president says" is absolutely true AND absolutely misleading.

[MikeW]

15. please ....

Most of the weapons seized at the border are NOT of US origin .. they arnt made or produced here and most are sold on the black market by unscrupulous dealers. That problem needs to be addressed.

However Calderon needs to stop pointing the finger at the US for his countries own problems ... if the dam Mexicans weren't so corrupt they wouldn't have 1/2 of the problems they do today. El Presidente needs to get his nose to the grindstone and start cleaning up his own messes.

And yes in the meantime close the border except for commerce until the situation is under control.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. This has already been debunked repeatedly

[JackRiddler]

20. It's been debunked that the Mexican president said this?

No. That would be the story.

[ronnie624]

22. Not necessarily debunked.

Many believe 17% of the confiscated total are U.S. weapons, but I wonder how many of the remaining 83% are manufactured in foreign factories that are owned by U.S. subsidiaries.

At any rate, it is well known that the U.S. is the biggest global arms supplier.

[benEzra]

23. The cartels are using a whole lot of former Warsaw Pact military weapons...

most notably RPG's and actual AK-47's (real ones, not U.S. non-automatic civilian lookalikes). Central America is awash with them due to decades of Cold War proxy skirmishes. However, it is true that the Zetas and whatnot seem to like U.S.-made military weapons, presumably diverted from the Mexican government's supply channels.

[Euromutt]

39. I'll take a stab at that

I wonder how many of the remaining 83% are manufactured in foreign factories that are owned by U.S. subsidiaries.

Very few to none, would be my guess. Most American arms manufacturing companies are encouraged to concentrate as much production--and therefore jobs--in the United States. Because you can't get a government contract without your product being at least assembled in the United States, it's far more common for foreign (small-)arms manufacturers to have subsidiaries in the U.S. than vice-versa; examples include Glock (Austrian), FN (Belgian), Beretta (Italian), Heckler & Koch (German) and SIG Sauer (Swiss/German).

And that's an anomaly, because most countries don't like their defense industries to be owned by foreigners. The United States is an exception because the foreign-owned parts of the industry exist next to a large domestically owned sector. Off the top of my head, the only U.S.-owned foreign firearms manufacturer I can think of is Colt Canada, formerly Diemaco, and that firm was making Colt designs under license prior to its acquisition. Besides, to the best of my knowledge, Colt Canada has only sold its rifles to a small number of NATO members states: Canada (obviously), the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway (though the Canadian government did donate 2,500 surplus rifles to the Afghan National Army).

At any rate, it is well known that the U.S. is the biggest global arms supplier.

In terms of dollar amounts, yes, but that includes big-ticket items like missile defense systems, entire squadrons of jet fighters, helicopters, transport aircraft and the occasional warship, in addition to spare parts and maintenance contracts for them. It would be a fallacy of accident to say that therefore, the United States must also be the largest supplier of small arms. The price of one F-16 will buy you a lot of Kalashnikovs and RPGs.

[lib2DaBone]

17. Millions of dollars or our tax money going to Mexico for the WOD...

We are fueling this nightmare.

Cut off the money.. stop the flow of arms.. legalize MJ.

[Overseas]

19. K&R! //nt

[slackmaster]

26. His comments about the expired "assault weapons ban" are complete nonsense

The 2004 end to the U.S. federal assault weapons ban gave criminals new resources, he said.

"They gained access to powerful firearms that they didn't have before," he said.

Every type of firearm that was available before the AWB was fully available during the AWB, and did not suddenly become more available when the AWB expired.

[Euromutt]

27. So essentially, it's everybody else's fault

We live next to the world's largest drug consumer, and all the world wants to sell them drugs through our door and our window.

Sure, there are no actual Mexicans involved in any of this. Why, perish the thought! There are no Mexicans cultivating cannabis and opium poppies and operating industrial-sized meth labs right in Mexico. And there are certainly no Mexican government officials and law enforcement officers accepting bribes and/or being intimidated by Mexican cartels.

If it was as simple as "all the world" wanting sell drugs to the U.S. "through the door and the window" of any neighboring country, there's no reason Canada shouldn't have similar problems to Mexico; after all, the U.S.-Canadian border is longer and less well guarded than the U.S.-Mexican border. But the Canadian climate isn't conducive to cultivating opium (though parts of southern BC apparently have a very suitable climate for growing marijuana). And, more importantly, Canada doesn't suffer from the culture of long-standing governmental corruption that Mexico does.

Calderon could do worse than acknowledge that Mexico's problems with drugs are not entirely of others' making.

[spin]

29. If you are a politician always blame the other guy for your failures ...

it's a basic principle.

[onehandle]

28. Freedom isn't free.

It costs the blood of foreigners.

[Euromutt]

32. Spilled by other foreigners

Please let's not pretend there isn't some degree of agency on the part of non-Americans in this. Nobody is forcing guns into the hands of cartel members and forcing them to pull the triggers.

[benEzra]

33. And what, exactly, does "freedom" have to do with Mexican government officials

who order NFA Title 2 restricted police/military-only weapons from U.S. suppliers and then divert them to the cartels via back channels?

Political corruption isn't the result of "freedom." Historically, it's more commonly the result of Prohibition. Mexico today is Chicago in the 1920's, and for the same reasons (except that alcohol prohibition only gave the Chicago cartels a couple of decades to work with, whereas politicians have been much more generous in preserving the Mexican cartels' monopolies today...

[Hoopla Phil]

30. "More U.S.-Mexico border crime a myth, officials say"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9119309

[Hoopla Phil]

31. "ABC (CNN in this case) Gets it Wrong on American Guns in Mexican Drug War

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/09/robert-farago/abc-gets-it-wrong-on-american-gun-in-mexican-drug-war/

DHS officials believe that the 87 percent statistic is misleading as the reference should include the number of weapons that could not be traced (i.e. out of approximately 30,000 weapons seized in Mexico, approximately 4,000 could be traced and 87 percent of those — 3,480 — originated in the United States.) Numerous problems with the data collection and sample population render this assertion as unreliable.

So you have 3,480 out of 30,000. Looks like a famous 10%.


Note: this is coming from DHS!

[lawodevolution]

40. During prohibition of alcohol

During prohibition of alcohol, if some Canadian whiskey was smuggled into the US and someone decided to drink it and go driving and he killed a family, should that have been blamed on the right to produce and sell alcohol in Canada at the time? Or was it that individual person's decision to drink and drive?

I want to introduce a radical idea to all those who claim that we are fueling Mexico’s drug war. I am half Mexican, we are not animals, we are just as human as you are and therefore it is the responsibility of the individual Mexican national who decides to use a firearm to kill someone, not the fault of the gun or the right to own guns in the USA. Sure if you gave monkeys guns and they shot each other one might be able to say that perhaps those animals didn't know better, but Mexicans are capable of making personal decisions and are able to be responsible under the right circumstances. The bad gun laws in Mexico have helped create the mess. I find the blame of the 2nd amendment for the violence in Mexico to be racist because it implies Mexicans are animals who can't be trusted with guns. The violence in Mexico is the failure of governments and has nothing to do with guns.

The example I like to point out is El Paso. I've been to Juarez and El Paso. The populations are identical and there is no difference at all between the populations. The cities are stuck together like one larger city. Both cities are mostly Spanish speaking. The poor in Mexico cross into El Paso illegally and the rich can cross legally. No difference in the populations and the two cities mix. Juarez has a minimum murder rate of 120 / 100,000 and a total gun ban. El Paso has a murder rate of 2.12 / 100,000 and almost no restrictions on gun ownership (apart from criminals not being allowed to own guns). The gun laws of el Paso serve the people of el Paso very well while the gun laws of Juarez are a total failure.

Edit:
I wanted to return to this radical idea that Mexicans are human also. Look at El Paso with the lowest crime rate in the US. It's a city that is around 80% Latino and it has the lowest crime rate in the USA (or maybe second lowest). I think that shows that Mexicans are not violent just because they are Mexican. It shows that under good laws and under a good government system, Mexicans are also able to be responsible with guns. That good government system includes gun freedom here in El Paso.

[Katya Mullethov]

41. It aint about guns , or dope , or typical dickinmouth war atrocity beheadings

Its about billions and billions of dollars spent on weed,cocaine ,shoelaces, toiletpaper ,helicopters ,drones , concrete ,steel , salaries and----PENSIONS----. The huge amounts of money have understandably corrupted all the actors on both sides and produced eye rolling bullshit for as long as I can remember and stretching back all the way to the 20's . TELL YOUR CHILDREN ...... This is your brain on drugs ...... 83% of the grenades used were traced to... the marihuana of today is ten times more potent than. More potent than what ? More potent than the stuff that caused "instant toxic insanity , murderous psychosis ,and ultimately death..... with as little as one dose" back in the 1930's ? When Sgt Stedanko's dope dog went tits up , "we" knew why ! lol

When the head of our own state dept and calderone both recently parroted the offcial prohibitionist party line statement regarding the little known fact that drug war gun crime is caused by crime guns it merely bucked another rivet in my mind as to the fact that things will never change as we learned nothing more from ethanol prohibition than how to perfect it and craft a paradise in which authoritarian statists fucks (and other murderous gangsters) can retire and live out their dotage relatively stress free .

How far it will go has always been on my mind , and here we find ourselves somewhere approaching the apex , the full fruit of this monumental endeavor and it can ony get worse . There is little one can do other than put a cage on your AC condensing unit , shoot any looters , and wait to see what outrageous bullshit the public at large will suck down like so much chocolate milk . I find it all an absolutely fascinating example in mind control , the racist undertones are but one subtle aspect to me . You have to use every color on your pallet for this kind of work , and bigotry works .


*ETA "statist fucks"

[jeepnstein]

42. Well done! That's one fine rant.

[Katya Mullethov]

43. I must admit it's not my usual economy of words

Distilled down to a cryptic bumper sticker slogan that would be ... " Got dental? " .


You get dental ?

[jeepnstein]

44. Yes, I do.

I'm very fortunate and count those blessings daily. I'm a glass half full kind of guy.

[lawodevolution]

45. what it's about, it depends on who is involved

For many it's about maintaining a job. For others it's about controlling a potentially legal and very profitable industry. For the gun prohibitionists it’s an opportunity to be racist, and hold the belief that people in Juarez are animals and can’t be trusted with gun freedom, just like you can’t leave a gun laying around next to a monkey, you can’t allow guns to be sold legally next to where…those Mexicans live. While the gun prohibitionists often buy and own their own guns. So there is a lot of interest in maintaining this situation here in the El Paso/Juarez area.