Missouri Group Supports Open Gun Carry (At Starbucks - Video at link)

[shadowrider]

Video at link


KANSAS CITY, MO. —
A group of people armed with guns make their way through the plaza. Their weapons were in plain sight. They're making a statement that they have the right to bear arms.

The open carry Missouri group met on the Plaza on Saturday. State law in both Kansas and Missouri allow people to openly carry firearms, with proper registration. Members of the group say carrying a gun is part of their daily routine. They say it's about protecting their rights and educating people.

"A reason we open carry is to let the public get more comfortable with us so they're not afraid to see someone with a firearm," said James Hardegen with Open Carr of Missouri.

While state laws allow openly carrying firearms, individual cities can ban it. The groups says that's the case in the majority on the Kansas side of the metro, but very few on the Missouri side outlawed openly carrying guns.

Estimates show that 50 million Americans own guns. And close to half of all American households possess a gun.

http://www.kspr.com/news/local/wdaf-missouri-open-gun-carry-110710,0,5008546.story

[donco6]

1. Yeah, seeing a gang walk into a store carrying guns always makes me comfortable.

:eyes:

[shadowrider]

2. Yup, me too

especially if the gang is dressed in either blue or red and wearing hoodies and facemasks.

Honest citizens are not a gang. They are exercising their 2A right. There is nothing to fear there.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

5. Why are you uncomfortable with the peaceful, non-threatening exercise of a Civil Right? n/t

[lawodevolution]

8. mental disorder

[Katya Mullethov]

20. Wow

Did they just delete a whole slew of maniacal yet respectably bigoted bullshit ? I was busy all day and didnt get a chance to soak up any of the fear or loathing .

[slackmaster]

7. It makes many people uncomfortable unless the "gang members" are wearing some kind of uniform

The funny thing is that it doesn't really matter what kind of uniform, as long as it doesn't include white shoes.

[proteus_lives]

12. "a gang"

:eyes:

[jazzhound]

15. Yeah, seeing gays hold hands in public always makes

me uncomfortable.

See how stupid and bigoted that sounds?

[sharesunited]

4. Teabaggers and other crackpots. Ha! Cracked teapots.

[safeinOhio]

6. Would you support and encourage

a group of 1st Amendment supporters showing everyone that they are free under the 1st to have a big demonstration of that right by wearing white sheets, hoods and burning a cross?

I support the 1st and the 2nd and see no reason for zealots to demonstrate in public just to piss others off. I support your rights and still think anyone that does things like this in public do little for their cause. Why not hold this open carry demo some where it might change minds, like wearing Obama shirts while open carrying at a Klan demo. Now that would make a point and change a mind or two. How about carrying anti=Palin signs and military style weapons at one of her rallies? That would be a great challenge to DUers here that support open carry and claim to be against people on the right like her.

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. No offense, but opinions like yours aren't the ones they are trying to influence.

Your disapproval is a given. The OC people seek to get people who are indifferent to or mildly supportive of the practice used to

the idea of seeing groups of open carriers, well, drinking coffee and having political discussions.


I'm sure the Brady Campaign would be happier if the OC people obliged them by engaging in shootouts or public racist rants, but

so far it doesn't appear to have happened.

[jazzhound]

18. Truer words..............

I'm sure the Brady Campaign would be happier if the OC people obliged them by engaging in shootouts or public racist rants, but
so far it doesn't appear to have happened.

................never spoken.

From the posts of many of the antis in this forum one could easily get the same impression.

[Katya Mullethov]

19. And it's a false economy

To go to all that trouble appealing to the minority that does get irreversibly wrapped around the axle . Although the world might revolve around them , it certainly isnt going to stop for 'em .

[rrneck]

10. Please.

Open carry supporters are not demonstrating to restrict the rights of others.

Try to stay on this planet.

[shadowrider]

13. If 1st Amendment supporters wanted to

March in white sheets, hoods and burn crosses, they have every right in the world and I can't stop them regardless what I personally think or how I "feel".

It wouldn't bother me.

[NewMoonTherian]

14. Only if they burn it safely.

If you're offended by the way certain people exercise their freedoms, that's fine. I am too, quite often. The constitution doesn't protect me from being offended. My goodness, can you imagine how horrible life would be if it did?

I agree that this demonstration probably didn't win many hearts, but I can't really make an unbiased assessment because I already support them. If I lived in Kansas City, I'd likely have been there with them. Hopefully I'll soon be attending one to celebrate Oklahoma's passage of open carry.

[jancantor]

16. They aren't doing it TO piss people off

although that very well may be a side effect for some people who view it. Many people would be pissed off if they saw two men walking down the street holding hands, or somebody wearing a t-shirt that promotes any # of caauses.

This is not so much about changing minds, as it is about exposing people to the legal reality - that open carry is legal in their jurisdiction. That way, when they DO see a person open carrying in the future, they don't flip out, make a frantic call to 911 etc. Rights are like muscles. They atrophy if they are not exercised.

[one-eyed fat man]

27. These guys held a rally and burned a cross....

1924 Democratic Party Convention. KKK platform plank.



The second dispute of the 1924 convention revolved around an attempt by non-Klan delegates, led by Forney Johnston of Alabama, to condemn the Ku Klux Klan for its violence in the Democratic Party's platform. Klan delegates defeated the platform plank in a series of floor debates. To celebrate, tens of thousands of hooded Klansmen rallied in a field opposite of the convention building. This event, known subsequently as the "Klanbake", was attended by hundreds of Klan delegates to the Democratic Party convention, who burned crosses, urged violence and intimidation against African Americans and Catholics.

Much of the modern Klan’s iconography, including the standardized white costume and the burning cross, are imitations of The Birth of a Nation. The film’s popularity and influence were enhanced by a widely reported endorsement of its factual accuracy by historian and President Woodrow Wilson.

President Wilson re-introduced racial segregation in federal government offices, in some departments for the first time since 1863. Offices, washrooms, cafeterias, work areas, and employee housing were racially segregated. His administration hounded from office considerable numbers of black federal employees. The Washington police force and fire department stopped hiring blacks. One justification given was health concerns: White government workers had to be protected from contagious diseases, especially venereal diseases, that Wilson imagined were being spread by blacks.

Franklin D. Roosevelt, meanwhile, appointed a Klansman to the Supreme Court and had another Klan supporter as his Attorney General. The Klan is called The Invisible Empire for a reason. These people aren't stupid. The buffoons you see on Jerry Springer isn't the face of the white-collar Klan that has pulled strings for a century and a half!

Unlawfully in Office

[Kennah]

11. I carry concealed ...

... and it generally doesn't faze me when others carry openly. However, I think they are delusional about the deterrent effect. As the number of open carriers rises, I suspect some criminals are going to figure out that a lot of open carriers are soft, pudgy, easy targets.

[safeinOhio]

17. You are right

I carry concealed too. No one knows, so they are not offended or intimidated by my exercise of rights.

[TheWraith]

23. Not necessarily easy targets...

...but I do think that it attracts attention you'd rather not have from would-be robbers who, if they can see your weapon, think that they can steal it from you.

[PavePusher]

25. Except that it doesn't seem to be supported by real-world evidence. n/t

[TheWraith]

28. How many people actually open carry?

The number is statistically insignificant, and so too would be any incidence of targeting. In other words, there's not yet sufficient data to say one way or the other.

[jazzhound]

21. After watching the video, I was reminded of the fact

that in stories like these, the newscasters almost always enunciate the word *guns* with an alarmed emphasis --- hardly a fair & balanced approach to covering any story. Could they make their own personal biases any more obvious?

In Keith Olbermann's case, he enunciates the word with both emphasis and contempt in many cases -- clearly oblivious to how many peaceful and reasonable gun owners he alienates in the process.

[Xenotime]

22. This is getting out of control.

If this country wants to be respected in the world stage, they need to stop this kind of shit.

[TheWraith]

24. Right, because they hate us for our freedoms.

So we need to make sure that the squeamish among us couldn't possibly be offended. Nobody carrying guns in public, no men kissing in public, no messy and unsightly protests... :eyes:

[PavePusher]

26. Eh? What are you saying?

We shouldn't exercise our Civil Rights in public?

[spin]

29. We do not need to lose our freedoms to gain respect ...

in fact, our freedom of the press and our right to own and even carry firearms is in a large part what distinguishes us and gives us a superior form of government compared to the rest of the world. We trust our citizens. We distrust our government.

You may be confusing being liked with being respected. When we try to be liked hoping to gain respect, we get neither.

Our government has survived basically intact far longer than the governments of the other leading nations in our world today. Through shear luck or shear genius, the founding fathers managed to create a government far superior to other governments. True, we have our problems, but our system can adapt and change to overcome them.

If we succeed in "gaining respect in the world stage" we will lose what makes us unique and different. Whatever respect we gain will be short lived. Chances are that the changes such as doing away with the Second Amendment will lead to our downfall.

[Xenotime]

31. That may be your opinion.

The fact of the matter is that we must give up some privileges. Because if we don't, we will undo everything President Obama is trying to accomplish in the world.

[Glassunion]

32. And what exactly would those freedoms be that we "must" give up?

I would be very interested in knowing.

[oneshooter]

33. Which "privilege" are you willing to give up?

The "privilege" of voting?

The "privilege" of gathering together?

The "privilege" of a choice of religion, or no religion if you choose?

The "privilege" of not having troops quartered in your home?

The "privilege" of being able to speak freely?

The "privilege" of printing a newspaper without goverment permission or censor?

The "privilege" of being able to travel freely without having goverment permission?

The "privilege" of not having goverment agents go into your home and search your belongings without a warrent?

The "privilege" of legal representation in a court of law?

The "privilege" of a trial berore a jury of your peers?

Which one are you willing to give up?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[PavePusher]

34. The hell I do, and the hell it would.

How do you plan to do this, convince me or force me?

[jazzhound]

30. Here's the response I received from Starbucks after

complimenting them on their position w/regard to the open carry issue:

Hello Jazzhound,

Thank you for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.
I want to give you some insight into why we think this is the best approach for us to take.

As your comments demonstrate, there is genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws and we respect that. However, our long-standing approach to this issue has not changed. Like many national retailers, we comply with local laws in the communities we serve. That means abiding by the laws that permit open carry in 43 U.S. states. Where such laws don't exist, openly carrying weapons in our stores is prohibited.

However, recent events led us to take a hard look to see if we should change our approach. It was important that we examine it from the perspective of partner (employee) and customer safety. Our analysis and subsequent decision was based on years of experience and on insight from our store partners. We also consulted law enforcement for their views and will continue to do so.

In the end, we determined that following local laws is the best approach for us. Were we to adopt a policy different from local laws allowing open carry, we would be forced to require our partners to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores. Although advocacy groups from both sides of this issue want to use Starbucks as a way to draw attention to their positions, we do not think our partners or our stores belong in the middle of this debate. We believe that the political, policy and legal debates around these issues belong in the legislatures and courts, not in our stores.

I hope you understand our rationale and will respect we have made this decision on principles in the interest of our people and customers. We will review our procedures on an ongoing basis to ensure the highest safety guidelines are in place and will continue to work closely with law enforcement. Sadly, we have had our own experiences with the tragedy of gun violence, and as such, are committed to do everything in our control to keep our people and customers safe.

Clearly the customer care rep. sent out a form response after misreading my note.