"Packing heat where you eat"

[PavePusher]

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=13489543

Video at link.

"A Tucson gun rights group is encouraging people to only eat at restaurants that allow guns inside.

"There is no difference between us and anyone else," J.D. Schechter said.

Well there is one small difference, these guys carry guns.

Schechter explained, "It is a tool, it is an inert piece of metal, there is nothing to fear, just like a hammer or a baseball bat."

The Tucson gun rights group, Gunburger, has been making their way around town supporting restaurants willing to let them wear their guns while they dine."


More at link.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

2. You do, I assume, have evidence to back up your assertions/insinuations...

amIright?

Or are you just a one-trick, drive-by poster?

I'm betting a fin on the latter.....

[lawodevolution]

9. Your side's necessity to attack gun owners personally based on your

Ignorance makes you look like a bigot which shows that your side is the side of extremism and also the side with the inferior argument.

[spin]

13. You will probably have to cross Florida off your list of places to visit ...

It's very unusual to find a restaurant here with a no gun sign. But then we can't open carry so you only have to worry about the 700,000 Floridians who have concealed weapons permits. Of course, since their weapons are concealed you will never know who is packing heat and who isn't.

If you do visit Florida, someday you might end up in a restaurant with an old guy with a bad limp, and a married couple in their mid thirties. That might be me, my daughter and my son in law. We all have concealed weapons permits and carry.

[krispos42]

15. Who to rob, who to rob, who to rob.

I think I'd pick the place with a prominant "No Guns Allowed On Premises" sign by each door.


Tell me, would you put a sign on your house proclaiming it to be gun-free?

[jancantor]

28. if he's a lunatic, why would he obey the no guns rule?

Ime, lunatics tend not to be super strict on rule following. If there is anybody at a "no guns" restaurant with a gun, it's going to be somebody who disobeys rules.

[proteus_lives]

36. Stereotypes and ignorance.

[EC]

3. And just how many times do they take their hammers

and baseball bats to dinner with them?

[PavePusher]

44. Practically never....

because they are harder to carry, and not as efficient a tool.

Was there a point?

[sorcrow]

4. Ai yi yi yi yi

Yawn. The people who follow the rules are, for the most part, not the ones to worry about. I pick my restaurants by food not policy.
Crow.

[Hoyt]

5. Actually, JD, you are different. You carry a deadly weapon into public for often irrational reasons.

Who "needs" a gun in most eateries?

[lawodevolution]

10. So what you mean is that violent crime is not a significant enough problem to be armed in public

Which would also mean pushing more gun control laws is not necessary

[X_Digger]

17. This guy's victims, perhaps?

Chuck E. Cheese Killer Gets A Stay Of Execution
http://cbs4denver.com/local/dunlap.colorado.death.2.660538.html

Or this guy?

Man Wounded in Gang Shooting Outside Chuck E. Cheese
http://laist.com/2010/10/24/man_wounded_in_gang_shooting_outsid.php

Maybe these victims..

Suspect in Fresno Chuck E. Cheese's shooting arrested
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6414835

Or this guy..

Chuck E. Cheese shooting victim refusing to cooperate with Springfield police
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/chuck_e_cheese_shooting_victim.html

Of course, that's just one restaurant chain..

Chili's-
http://www.kpho.com/news/21096859/detail.html
http://www.click2houston.com/news/17027317/detail.html
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI89687/
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/miami-fl/TKPMP07US81UVVCKG

Applebee's-
http://www.rrstar.com/news/yourtown/x1031040449/Police-corner-man-they-believe-connected-with-Applebee-s-shooting
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6828097
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/WDTN_Suspect_in_Applebees_shooting_dies

Pizza Hut-
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/2-arrested-in-pizza-hut-robbery-shooting
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=13295351
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090611/articles/906119927

Taco Bell-
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150507&catid=57
http://www.wvpubcast.org/newsarticle.aspx?id=3254

I could go on..

[spin]

22. You usually have to walk through a parking lot ...

on your way to and from the eatery. Parking lots are often dangerous, especially at night.

Plus if you have a legally concealed weapon with you and decide to leave it in your car, you have to remove it from its holster and put it back in when you return. This increases the chances of an accident for no good reason and leaving the firearm in your car while you eat also means that someone may break into you vehicle and steal it.

Some fool may buy it and use it to injure or kill another person.

[jancantor]

30. It also increases the risk that somebody might see you

taking your gun out of your holster and/or removing your holster and see THAT as threatening, since they don't know what you are doing with it, etc. Note that in many movies (not accurate, but people get their understanding of how guns are used from the media) you will see the robbers, etc. loading and checking their guns right before they go in.

In my state, it's legal to leave your gun in your car if it's concealed from view. However, it's not as good an idea as carrying it with you.

[jancantor]

29. How long will this canard exist

This idea that one must demonstrate a need to carry a gun. Nobody is required to justify a right by demonstrating a need. The chance one will need a gun in a restaurant is very very small. The chance outside the restaurant is larger, but still small. However, if you aren't carrying a gun, and the need arises, you are TSOL.

[GreenStormCloud]

101. But if I lose that lottery?

The chance one will need a gun in a restaurant is very very small.

The odds that I will ever need my gun are indeed small. The problem is that if I should ever lose that lottery and fate brings such trouble to me, then the down side for me can be rather extreme. So my gun is like having insurance. I paid for it and train with it and hope that I never need it. Just like I carry insurance and hope I never have to file a claim.

[proteus_lives]

33. Do you "need" to post on DU? (1st)

[Hoyt]

61. I've wondered the same about "toter promoters."

Carry if you like. But, I think we'd be better off without the promotion of guns in restaurants, public parks, and elsewhere. Just my opinion, of course.

[proteus_lives]

69. And you're welcome to your opinion.

Don't carry or own if you don't want to.

It's about choice. I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

[NewMoonTherian]

71. I disagree.

But if you win this argument, my rights are violated. If I win, you enjoy enhanced safety and the right to live exactly as you do now.

[RSillsbee]

54. As I have pointed out to you before

I am one of those lucky souls who did win the lottery. I was the intended victim of an attempted mugging. Do you know why it was an attempted mugging? Because I was exercising my right to carry a handgun.

Who needs a gun in most parking lots? I don't care. I needed a gun in one parking lot one time and i t more than made up for every other time I didn't.
Was/am I irrational for carrying a gun?

[Hoyt]

60. I hear you. Still think society is better off with unarmed citizens in most restaurants.

I had two guys come up to me in an area where muggings happen just last night (they were hanging out behind a busy liquor store). I didn't pull a gun or anything. Just told them I wasn't going to help them and to stay back. Maybe that wouldn't work for you. Unfortunately, most of the gun toters I've known -- and it's a sizable number -- would have pulled their weapon (or at least put their hand on it) and bragged about it for weeks. Glad I didn't have one. Next time, I'll park in front of the store.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. I'm curious- Why are you glad you didn't have a weapon? eom

[RSillsbee]

63. Because he doesn't realize the only thing that kept him

from getting mugged was the good will of the mugger either that or the guy wasn't really intending to mug him.

and before you say it Hoyt my guy came out of the dark knife in hand either he was on his way to a BBQ or he wanted my wallet

[Hoyt]

66. That was my point. Guns aren't usually necessary because you can often handle things without them.

[ManiacJoe]

68. Just because you have it does not mean you have to use it.

Better to have a gun an not need it than to need it and not have it.

[RSillsbee]

74. Ever try to disarm someone w/ a knife barehanded?

I'm not good enough to do it w/ out getting cut

[Hoyt]

77. Actually I have, although it was just a lady mental patient wielding a butcher knife.

I've also taken a gun from a drunk who pulled it on me then swore it wasn't loaded when I took it from him. Funny that a round ejected when I pulled the slide back. That gun didn't stand up very well to repeated slamming against the pavement either. Just don't think folks should carry guns in public.

Now, if I where to feel I needed something -- I'd strap a machete to my back. It works as well as a gun and you are not as likely to hit bystanders playing cowboy.

Have a safe night folks.

[oneshooter]

86. "I'd strap a machete to my back." And get arrested for possesion of an illegal knife.

[Hoyt]

90. And that is what should happen to those with a gun in public.

Just my opinion.

[PavePusher]

93. Arrest people peacefully exercising Civil Rights in a non-threatening manner?

An opinion, indeed. A shitty one.

[RSillsbee]

94. That's all you're giving is an opinion

No reasoned debate, no statistical evidence, no rationale and no alternative.

So,other than disrupting, what is your point?

[Euromutt]

95. You're entitled to your opinion

You are not, however, entitled to your facts, and the facts, very simply, do not support your opinion. There is no evidence that persons in lawful possession of a firearm in public present, on aggregate, an increased threat to public safety. Moreover, government at every level has repeatedly asserted, and had that assertion accepted, in courts of law that it bears no responsibility for the protection of individual citizens, and no liability for failing to provide that protection.

[oneshooter]

96. Opinions are like elbows, everybody has one. n/t

[oneshooter]

111. The difference is that my firearm is legal and your "man knife" isn't. n/t

[Hoyt]

64. Didn't need it, and don't believe folks should routinely carry them.

There are usually ways out of situations without resorting to a gun. The odds of a situation where a gun is really necessary is so small it's hardly worth worrying about. Avoidance is probably the best way. I'd eat at home (or the police headquarters' cafeteria) if I thought I needed to carry a gun into a restaurant.

[RSillsbee]

65. My odds were 100%

would I have been acceptable collateral damage in your scheme of things

[Hoyt]

67. Glad you got away. Still don't think we should promote carrying arms into most places.

[X_Digger]

72. That's not an answer to his question, though. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

81. Six hours (and five replies) later, and he still hasn't.

I still want to why he believes he can tell if some place will be dangerous beforehand.

Or why he believes he can subdue any mugger....

[one-eyed fat man]

87. Maybe?

What with taking guns away from drunks and knives from mental patients this is gotta be him!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TzpZjiGoI4c/TJjRapKgYYI/AAAAAAAAEfo/mTTc9sVcizo/s1600/Bad+ASS.jpg

[RSillsbee]

73. Ok but had I only chose to carry a gun one place

I still would have had to walk through the parking lot to get from my APT to my car.

I cary a flashlight w/ me everywhere I go too. I almost never need it but when I do need it, a flashlight seems to be the only thing that fits the bill.

I have only ever needed a gun once. The one time I did need it a gun was the only thing ( I can think of) that allowed me to resolve the situation (peacefully I might add) while still keeping the mugger outside of attack range.

Most of the people that carry guns will never ever need them I agree with that statement 100%. The problem is I can't differentiate the vast minority who will need one in advance when you can let us know

[ManiacJoe]

70. Lots of logic errors in your post.

> There are usually ways out of situations without resorting to a gun.

That there are. But note your "usually" qualifier. While most of the time a gun is not needed, there certainly are times when it is needed. Since those times cannot be accurately predicted, one can either hope that he survives when the odds catch up with him, or one can be prepared and better increase his odds.

> The odds of a situation where a gun is really necessary is so small it's hardly worth worrying about.

Absolutely correct. This is why most folks can be go about their activities without much thought. It is these unfortunate circumstances in the small-odds end that need to be worried about. One can either be prepared for them or just wing it.

> Avoidance is probably the best way.

Avoidance is always the best way. However, that requires being aware of your surroundings, and avoidance is not always possible.

> I'd eat at home (or the police headquarters' cafeteria) if I thought I needed to carry a gun into a restaurant.

Carrying into the restaurant is not the point. The point is carrying everywhere you go. If you think the restaurant is an unsafe place, you do not go there whether you are armed or not. If you are not going to carry into the restaurant, where are you going to leave the gun while you are there?

What makes the restaurant different from all the other places you have been so that it has different odds of needing to defend yourself? The only correct answer is that the restaurant has the same odds. The real question is do you choose to be prepared for the unlikely event of needing to defend yourself from deadly force, or do you just play the odds and hope for the best when your number comes up?

[friendly_iconoclast]

79. Whether you believe others should carry guns or not is irrelevant

Hate to break it to you, but you don't get to make that call.

[jeepnstein]

88. I do.

Yesterday the wife and I took a bunch of kids to McDonalds after church. Yeah, real nutritious I know but we don't do it that often. Anyways, I see a friend of mine out in the parking lot in a verbal exchange with two guys in a white Pontiac Grand Am. My buddy happens to be a detective with Sheriff's Dept. He was in a position that put him and lots of people inside the store at risk since his back was to the windows of the building. I quietly stepped outside and took a position where I could take a nice shot if need be. He saw what was happening and took the initiative to move back to a better position as well. The dummies in the Grand Am apparently knew something was up and took off. They were picked up a mile away. Apparently they had an axe to grind over a recent drug arrest.

Doing a felony stop in a crowded parking lot was not something either of us really wanted to do. Even lower on the scale of fun ways to spend the afternoon would have included exchanging fire in said parking lot. Lower still would have been watching my friend get shot over a drug case. As it was I just returned to my table and nobody was the wiser.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lawodevolution]

12. Personal attack against gun owners Plus bad language

Is this how the moderate and righteous side would behave?

[Skittles]

23. aw, poor baby

:rofl:

[lawodevolution]

84. Your post was deleted, poor baby got spanked for bad behavior

[SteveM]

104. His diaper-splatter made worse by rolling in it. nt

[X_Digger]

19. Such witty commentary. Deep, too! n/t

[Skittles]

24. THANK YOU!!!

[spin]

25. And from a Texas lady too!

what's the world coming too?

[lynne]

7. Like guns in restaurants and bars is anything new -

- the only difference is that they're hidden. THOSE are the weapons I worry about. I'd much prefer to know who has them than not.

[spin]

16. The state of Florida requires me to carry concealed ...

I can't even flash my weapon at you. (Not that I get into that type of activity.)

Seriously, I have been carrying for somewhere around 15 years and I don't believe that anyone has ever noticed. Of course very few people know what to look for. Plus they usually have their head up their ass and are talking on a cell phone.

[Katya Mullethov]

8. Just feel the love in this room

[RC]

11. Guns are machines. Killing machines.

They are not inert peaces of metal. They are not like hammers or baseball bats. Guns can and do kill at a distance.

[lawodevolution]

14. Yes they are just objects,

Baseball bats and hammers can also kill.

But if a gun is not an enert object, what is it? An evil spirit? A deamon? Come on y'all, is this how moderate and rational people think? Or is this a bit extreme?

[RC]

27. Reread what I wrote.

Hammers and baseball bats don't kill at a distance. Guns are machines, they have moving parts. Hammers and baseball bats are not.

[Euromutt]

43. Two or three feet is also "a distance"

I mean, if we're going to be pedantic...

The fact remains that firearms--like hammers, baseball bats, TV tray tables, axes, kitchen knives, entrenching tools, trebuchets, asses' jawbones etc. etc.--do not inflict physical injury on people of their own accord. They have to be operated by someone with either malice or criminal negligence.

[one-eyed fat man]

89. Remember the 6 simple machines from 3rd grade science?

Simple machines

I'll bet even the most primitive caveman would recognize an aluminum softball bat as the club it really is.

A battle-axe is not just slang for mother-in-law.

The day the first human learned a pointy stick could both provide supper and keep him from being supper FREE men have availed themselves of arms. My walking stick is a direct descendant of an earlier weapon.



A traditional shillelagh is made from a Blackthorn stick smoked in a chimney flue. They are a quintessential walking stick for any person seeking to have a tool equally useful in walking comfortably and, as they are incredibly tough, a weapon.

[spin]

18. All my guns are well trained ...

They know not to sneak off and kill people on their own. I keep them on a tight leash and limit them to attacking paper targets. They never complain and appear to enjoy punching holes in paper.

[X_Digger]

20. Please chime in here..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x292384

Love to have your opinion.

[jancantor]

31. Guns are inert until somebody pulls the trigger

No modern firearm can just go off on its own. They are a tool. A gun, carried in a holster is absolutely not a danger to anybody. If the person who is carrying it is a danger, then the gun becomes an extension of them, just like any other tool. That holds true for knives, or for their motor vehicles.

[proteus_lives]

34. Guns are tools.

Humans are the killing part.

[Katya Mullethov]

50. My wife would certainly beg to differ

As she was nearly beaten to death with an ordinary framing hammer , just one of those little things that add up to make us whom we are . Oh my, the stories she has about growing up in East St Louis . They give one a true appreciation of man in his natural state .


Oddly enough , she has no aversion to claw hammers and behaves quite normally in most every regard . She doesnt hate hammers , she doesnt hate booze . Quite the contrary , she doesnt hate anybody . If only we could open carry in Texas , more people would surely hate us without the slightest hint as to whom we are or where we have been . The only consolation* is that someday they too , might live a short ,rich ,and colorful life , filled with colorful people .

Oh wait , you said at a distance ! That completely negates our experience . I yield the floor to a greater truth . Well played .




eta: "short"

[Pavulon]

75. So does bud light and jacky d, next

you are sitting at a stop sign, drunk person hits your driver door at 60 with an suburban, you are just as dead.

[Euromutt]

78. I find it hard to believe Bud Light could get you inebriated enough

Because if I've ever tasted "love-in-a-canoe beer" (or, less charitably, beer that tasted like it had been rented previously), Bud Light had to be it. But I see from a small amount of Googling that Bud Light actually contains 4.2% ABV, which would indeed be enough to get you drunk (provided your bladder didn't give out first).

But yeah, the number of motor vehicle-related deaths from 1999-2007, according to WISQARS, was 400,993 (of which 99.6% were unintentional), compared to 269,871 firearm deaths (of which 56.4% were suicides). Motor vehicles are definitely "killing machines," in the sense that they are machines that are perfectly capable of killing even if their operators do not intend them to.

[Katya Mullethov]

85. "But I had the brakes all the way to the floor "

Many are able to rationalize that line of bullshit simply because it's a machine .

[one-eyed fat man]

91. You know, you have hit on something!

That may be the cruelest legacy of Prohibition!

At the tail end of the nineteenth century and and first decades of the twentieth, Germans were the largest ethnic group in the United States. While other immigrant groups may have clustered their communities around a church, the Germans built the brewery first.

By the time Prohibition was repealed Americans had forgotten what real beer tasted like. They settled for the piss-weak Pilseners from St. Louis and Colorado, or in places like upstate New York, the leaden Lagers the Indians smuggled down the Five Finger Lakes from Canada.



It is a tenet of faith that heaven bears a strong resemblance to München during Oktoberfest and the angels wear dirndls.

[SteveM]

106. "There is no beer in heaven."

[one-eyed fat man]

107. They tell me the Irish believe that

In heaven there is no beer and I heard a Slovene from Cleveland sing about it. However, Benjamin Franklin said, "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."



Is that not the picture of an angel spreading happiness?

[Kennah]

108. So long as there are easy women in hell, I'm good

[PavePusher]

110. I've heard that's where they go.... n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

80. If you think I can't chuck a hammer across the room with accurate, killing force,

you'd be wrong.

[PavePusher]

97. Hammers and bats were derived from...

wait for it....



WEAPONS.

And they are still quite suited for such a purpose.

[SteveM]

105. So? Do you have a point?

[sharesunited]

21. The rest of the English speaking world looks at the USA and asks

What Is With Those Yanks And Their Guns?

That's because they love liberty too, but don't make guns and ammo some deranged centerpiece of it.

[lawodevolution]

26. Actually

Most of the rest of the English speaking world live under hate crime laws that result in one being arrested for criticizing a religion and they seem to be ok with that so I do not want to take advice on liberty from those idiots.

[sharesunited]

32. So you prefer slander and gunpowder as the better way. Mk.

[spin]

37. Our First and Second Amendments do separate us from much of the world ...

and in my opinion our Constitution including the Bill of Rights and all the other amendments we have added over the years does indeed make us a superior nation to live in.

Unfortunately we are going through another set of difficult times and face serious challenges. The people we elect appear to be serving as lackeys to the big corporations instead of representing us. We have survived many other times of turmoil, perhaps because of the genius of the founding fathers and the document they created. I suspect we will be able to endure our problems and use our rights to overcome the rich and powerful who hope to enslave us and turn us into a modern version of a medieval feudal society.

Looking at the riots spreading across Europe at this time I wonder just how long their current governments will survive. Our government seems to have far more stability than most the other governments in our world. I believe we can thank the genius of the founding fathers for that.

You seem to have a deep distrust of your fellow citizen. Obviously not all people in our country are honest and good but the overwhelming majority are. The people who abuse the right to own firearms are largely criminals and criminal gangs. Frequently we read of a violent felon with a long rap sheet who is arrested for needlessly murdering someone. It quickly becomes obvious that this person should have been in prison, not on the street. Unfortunately our failed war on drugs has filled our prisons with many nonviolent prisoners.

A close examination of the statistics shows just how responsible the majority of citizens are with their firearms. Forty percent of the homes in the United States contain firearms and estimates are that there is as many as 300 million firearms in our nation.

The truly amazing statistics come from those who have licenses to carry firearms concealed. They rarely commit crimes with their firearms and while not angels they handle their firearms far more responsibly than any other group of gun owners.

You will obviously never change your viewpoint but I believe that your distrust of your fellow citizens who legally own firearm is sad and perhaps even somewhat delusional.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. When are you going to post something meaningful and not just hyperbole?

[proteus_lives]

35. Yeah, let's be like the UK. Ban knives and it's a utopia overnight.

:eyes:

[spin]

38. Governments always believe that banning stuff works ...

it never does.

Politicians really aren't very bright.

[proteus_lives]

39. Nope.

Banning shit is a lot easier then fixing real problems.

[spin]

40. It's like putting a bucket on the floor to catch water when the roof leaks ...

eventually the problem grows until it's a major problem that costs a fortune to repair.

[RSillsbee]

42. Make 'em scarce

stop all knife production let people use flint. kill everyone that knows how to make a knife or sharpen metal. In a few hundred years when all the modern knives are gone we'll have the knife problem under control

[oneshooter]

51. A flint edge is sharper than a steel one. n/t

[RSillsbee]

53. Then make flint scarce

make America a shining, seamless , oasis of flintlessness then we won't have a knife crime (or a flintlock crime) problem

PS:If you make me put a sarcasm tag on this I am going to beeeeee-otch slap you soooo hard your driver's license gets a fat lip

[PavePusher]

58. ROFL! n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

82. What about Obsidian?

Won't anyone think of the children?!

[Straw Man]

41. Love liberty.

Just don't expect to exercise it.

That's right up there in the Pantheon of Lame Rationales with "I fought for your right to protest, so shut the hell up."

"Deranged centerpiece" has a nice glib ring to it, but it's really just empty invective. Anything more substantial to offer today?

[PavePusher]

45. Simple jealousy.

They'll get over it.

[aikoaiko]

47. What, no love for the non-English speaking parts of the world, Sharesunited?

:shrug:

[friendly_iconoclast]

57. It wouldn't do to look at the non-English speaking parts of the world.....

....as it seems quite a number of the citizens thereof actually want to move to the 'violent' United States.

[friendly_iconoclast]

56. An argumentum ad populum(sp?). You're slipping, shares. eom

[oneshooter]

76. There have been several times that the "rest of the world" were happy to see us and our guns. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

83. And of course, some of them don't have it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

46. "Only"?

"A Tucson gun rights group is encouraging people to only eat at restaurants that allow guns inside."


Yeah, good luck with that...........:rofl:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. Should not be hard to do that there

I won't eat at a place that does not allow them either. I also tell the management why.

[GreenStormCloud]

52. Most restaurants allow guns inside, so what's the big deal?

In fact, I have yet to see a restaurant with a "No Guns" sign.

[spin]

55. i can't remember the last restaurant with a "No Guns" I visited in Florida ...

but it was probably 20 years ago.

[PavePusher]

59. Have you ever been here?

Your post would imply not.

[Kennah]

92. I pretty much already do this

I can't recall ever seeing a restaurant in Washington State with a No Guns sign. Can't carry into the lounge or bar area of a restaurant, although minors aren't allowed so the wife and kids and I don't sit there.

Been carrying concealed regularly for more than 12 years in 4 different states. I've also been wearing a seat belt for more than 26 years in many different states.

I don't put on a seat belt with the intent of getting into a car accident. Same holds for carrying a gun for protection.

[old mark]

98. The phrases "packing heat", "toting", etc are fucking stupid and provocative.

Peopls seem to think they have a right to mock gun owners and do so on every possible occasion.

We made intelligent, informed choices, and came to different conclusions than anti-gun people - it is that simple. We have no wish to FORCE anyone to own guns, and we expect the same consideration, not forcing your ideas and feelings on us.

Live your own life and mind your own business.

mark

[Straw Man]

99. Toting.

Use of the word "toting" identifies people who get all of their knowledge of firearms from cowboy movies. Somehow they think that this constitutes an informed opinion.

[oneshooter]

100. The use of the term "toter" is a thinly veiled insult, and as thus should not be allowed. n/t

[RSillsbee]

102. I agree NT

[Kennah]

103. I agree, to an extent

Gunnies do it to ourselves at times.

Packing heat, toting, gun nuts, assault weapons (I think Gun Digest started that one), etc.

[Katya Mullethov]

109. No more so than naming the forum GUNS rather than SELF DEFENSE

Kinda sets the tone , don't it ? I am sure it was an innocent Freudian slip . Like making reference to "The rest of the English speaking world " . oops .

It's not all about gunzgunzgunzgunz , and self determination is not a secondary consideration . Not with me .