Two for one on a Monday night

[Katya Mullethov]

http://www.campuscarry.com/

Concerning the video "debate" .The one thing that stuck in my mind is his statement that they aren't mature enough and hormones still cause them to act too impulsively to carry a weapon for self defense .I would have had on overwhelming urge to reply with " Ok then , are you in favor of repealing the 26th ammendment ? " And I woulda done it too .
The comments by Dr Holda* are an entirely different matter of course , but these are both good examples of the thought processes at work in their minds .





Dr. Bill Holda, president of Kilgore College in Kilgore, TX, will have to do some fast backpedaling if he’s to have any hope of outrunning his recent comments about the 1991 massacre at a Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, TX—the second deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, surpassed only by the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre. Dr. Holda recently angered both survivors of the shooting and concealed carry advocates by claiming that some of the victims of the massacre (which became a rallying cry for supporters of lawful self-defense) actually shot each other.

Six days after the November 2 elections, Texas State Representative-Elect David Simpson (R-Longview) pre-filed a bill that would allow holders of state-issued concealed handgun licenses to carry concealed handguns on Texas college campuses. This did not sit well with Dr. Holda, who chastised the move as “unfortunate and ill-advised” and criticized Simpson for filing the bill without first consulting him. Holda proclaimed, “What we want is for representatives to file legislation based on a good body of information.”

As an example of the type of information he believes Simpson failed to consider, Holda pointed to the Luby’s massacre, telling a local TV station, “ you had multiple shooters, and innocent people were killed by other people who had concealed, licensed handguns, because they weren’t sure who was the shooter and who was a defender.”
////////////

That some of the victims at the Luby's massacre actually shot EACH OTHER could have, or could become a meme so there's one to watch for . And be ready for .

[sharesunited]

1. That "shooting each other" claim doesn't even move the needle.

The argument against any guns whatsoever in the hands of the general public was sufficiently made by the arrival of George Hennard at the Luby's and his commencement of the massacre.

[friendly_iconoclast]

4. We await your announcement of the Magic Gun Removal Ray

Followed by the elimination of all knowledge of metallurgy and all applied chemistry since the 10th Century C.E.

Let us know how your work is going, eh?

[sharesunited]

6. Is there a magic child porn removal ray? No.

What there is is unequivocal and relentless public policy with the stated objective of eradication.

Technology notwithstanding.

[lawodevolution]

7. yes remove the guns so we can

be more like nigeria and have mass killings with machetes. No thanks.

We can try to be more like Mexico and ban guns. No thanks.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Harry J. Anslinger failed to eradicate cannabis with the same approach you advocate for guns

Fearmongering, magical thinking, and the promotion of moral panic did not stop production and consumption of the "Assasin of Youth"

What leads you to believe those methods will succeed with guns?


Some background on Anslinger- and my interlocutor:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x279674

"So, what does the Guns forum have to do with Harry J. Anslinger?"

[Straw Man]

10. Another horribly flawed analogy.

A few questions:

• Does the Constitution protect the right to child porn?
  
• Are there any segments of society--e.g. police and the military--for whom the possession and use of child porn should, in your opinion, be permitted?
  
• Is child porn ever used for self-defense?
  
• Does child porn have socially acceptable sporting purposes?
  

No, no, no, and no.

I think it's time to retire the "guns and child porn" meme if you hope to maintain any sort of credibility. "Oh, I get it: gun ownership is a social evil like child porn." It would be insulting if it weren't so ludicrous.

[jancantor]

18. Child porn is also illegal because people are harmed in the MAKING of child porn

The scotus has already ruled that "virtual" child porn iow computer generated images of children or images of 18+ yr olds madeup to look like children cannot be criminalized.

Child porn is a narrow exception and in every case of child porn - there were victims. It's really a poor analogy, I agree

[Euromutt]

20. That has already been pointed to Shares on multiple occasions

But as you could no doubt tell, that inconvenient fact didn't make it past Shares' ideological filter.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sharesunited]

16. Dead children versus exploited children?

Which is worse? Which outcome prevents a future of any kind for the victim?

Punishment is not prevention.

The abused may get justice and heal their psychic injury.

What justice is there for the deceased?

I marvel at the knots you twist yourself in to justify guns and ammo in society.

It's impossible to respect the dishonesty though.

[X_Digger]

19. This, again?

In order for your analogy to have some merit, cameras would have to be 'scarce'.

What you're after is a 'murder removal ray'.

Action / criminal activity = Murder, production of child pornography.

Tool / method = Gun (| knife | bludgeon | fists, feet), Camera, computer.

Apple is to apple as orange is to orange. It isn't hard.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MicaelS]

23. Prohibition of Alcohol did not work,

All it did was create a new class of criminal.

Prohibition of Drugs has not worked, all it has done is create multiple new classes of criminals.

Prohibition of Guns will not work. All it will do create millions of new criminals.

If people want something, they will get it, regardless of what laws are passed, or what memes you attempt to transmit.

How far are you willing to go to achieve you vision of Utopia? Are you willing to completely suspend the Constitution? Or as you willing to just repeal the 4th and 5th Amendments along with the 2nd? Are you willing to send armed troops to search every single structure in the country? Search every square foot of ground with metal detectors? Because that is what it will take. You sound exactly like the officer in Vietnam who stated "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it." Except you want to destroy the country to save it from evil guns and gun owners.

My personal opinion is that you are an Authoritarian in the mode of Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot (notice I didn't say Hitler) who would take great delight in doing exactly what I stated above, and hoping as many gun owners resist so you can murder them.

[Katya Mullethov]

25. Not true at all

They hired "a few" new treasury agents . TSA is working the same MO .

[Kennah]

24. You've obviously never heard of Thomas Glenn Terry

Just two months after the Luby's Massacre, two armed robbers with stolen handguns herded customers and employees into the walk-in refrigerator of an Anniston, Alabama Shoney's. Armed with a legal, concealed handgun, Terry shot and killed one robber and wounded the other.

[cleanhippie]

26. Oh, hey, look! It's SU's broken record, playing again. What a surprise.

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. Holda is a complete and utter asshole

Here is the original interview:

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/one-local-college-president-says-no-way-to-campus-guns

1:20 into the video


"...where you have multiple shooters and innocent people were killed by other people who had concealed licensed handguns because they weren't sure who was the shooter and who was the defender," Holda said.

And here is his reply. Note that he has no examples to cite. For a college president, he surely is a poor researcher...


http://www.ketknbc.com/news/should-concealed-handguns-be-allowed-on-college-campuses


What lead to today's concealed handgun permits was the argument that innocent people could have defended themselves.

We called Mr. Holda back today... to see if this information changed his mind.

Holta said: "Yes. I was incorrect. But that doesn't really change my opinion of it being an ill-conceived and really a bad decision. I think an individual who worries about crime and wants to carry a weapon in an open environment has that right -- and I defend that. I just don't think that in our educational environment, given the way we're structured, its going to be practical."

Mr. Holda says that the risks of concealed carry on college campuses greatly outway its benefits.

[Euromutt]

11. "Yes. I was incorrect. But that doesn't really change my opinion "

That's a very revealing statement. The most likely reason for not revising your opinion when the evidence changes is that it wasn't based on evidence to begin with, but on pre-conceived notions, with any actual evidence simply cherry-picked to fit that prejudice.

As far as Holda's academic credentials go, Kilgore looks to be mostly vocational in nature, rather than academic.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Holda is either a bald face liar or has the credentials of a middle school dropout

And as he seems to have acquired a doctorate somewhere, I'll go with "bald faced liar".

[northoftheborder]

3. I had not heard of Dr. Holda's comments.

This is important, and even though I live in Texas, not far from Killeen, I had not heard of that opinion, or is it fact, that some people were shot by other people with handguns, and that the "killer" was not the only one with a gun. ????? Where might one find this information??? One of the victim's daughter later ran for the legislature and won, based on this episode and wanting to have the "right to carry" law passed, stating that if she had had her gun, which she had left in the car, she could have prevented the death of her parents.

[friendly_iconoclast]

5. It is not fact, and apparently Holda pulled this information from his rectum.

I daresay this demonstrates again that gun control is a largely faith-based initiative.

[one-eyed fat man]

22. He lied.

He cited a shooting that happened at a Luby's Restaurant in Killeen almost 20 years ago, as an example of concealed handguns gone awry.

But - that example was wrong.

There were not multiple shooters - only one man, who killed 23 people in the massacre.

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/should-concealed-handguns-be-allowed-on-college-campuses

He doesn't care. When confronted by a reporter with facts, his reply was simple.

"Yes. I was incorrect. But that doesn't really change my opinion."

[jazzhound]

13. Yeah......I've seen this "debate" before...........

..........though I wasn't aware of the filthy liar Holda. Perfect example of the depths the faith-based pro-"control" proponents need to stoop at this point in order to even hope to score a few trifling points.

While I sympathize with the Virginia Tech shooting victim, I couldn't listen to him spout rubbish a second time.

[Katya Mullethov]

15. I had my suspicions

But never gave much thought to the fact that "the criminal mind is far more advanced than than the collegiate mind " . Apparently there is some truth to this .

[jazzhound]

14. The Students for Concealed Carry do an excellent job of

destroying the common "arguments" against CC on campus:

http://www.concealedcampus.org/common_arguments.php

[Douva]

21. Part 2

Kilgore College President Bill Holda continues flying the flag of ignorance:

http://www.campuscarry.com/2010/11/23/kilgore-college-president-continues-his-assault-on-campus-carry/#content