A Family Deposed by Force

[RoeBear]

http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/la-me-sherburne21jan21,0,142568.story?coll=ktla-home-3



"The Sherburnes were living as survivalists and selling military surplus when the feds moved in. They were lawbreakers, victims -- or both.

At the end of the five-month investigation, the Sherburnes — a deeply religious couple with six children — each pleaded no contest to one felony count of possessing 10 tracer bullets, which illuminate the trajectory and are legal in several states but not California.

Her husband started a prison term that lasted five years because he refused to accept parole conditions that barred him from seeing his wife."


Read the story: It sounds like law enforcement was doing to these people exactly what Bush is doing to Iraq

[solinvictus]

1. Religious nuts or survivalists?

Neither, they appear to be a law abiding family who accidentally ran afoul of an unconstitutional state statute. Their biggest crime? Trying to mind their own business. Welcome to America, 2004.

[alwynsw]

2. Smells a great deal like Ruby Ridge

without the bloodshed. Shameful on the part of the Republik of Kalifornistan. Hope they win their lawsuit. But then, how would the state pay? They're broke.

[TexasMexican]

3. Wow

thats incredibly fucked up.

[alwynsw]

4. Where you been hiding?

Haven't seen ya around the Gungeon for a while.

[MrBenchley]

5. Too frigging funny...

Yeah, there's the sort of voter Democrats ought to be pandering to....the kind that squirrels away tracer bullets, used missile tube launchers, a 2.75-inch rocket warhead, a 81-mm mortar round, homemade explosives, various types of ammunition and illegal signal flares in the tunnels under their home.

By the way, wonder what these dirt-ignorant loonies were going to do with all that ammo? Toss the bullets and shout "Bang!"? Or is it likely there's more arsenal salted away somewhere that hasn't been found yet?

"Trudy Sherburne said they stocked the underground shelter with supplies and weapons in case of a nuclear war, riot or other crisis.
"In the middle of the desert, you need a hideaway room," she said."
Never can tell when those cactuses are going to start trouble....stay out in the sun long enough and you'll hear them muttering to themselves.


"The Sherburnes said they had attended a few meetings of a militia group in the nearby community of Phelan but eventually broke away because the group didn't focus enough on Christianity. "
Yeah, that's the problem with those groups...they don't focus on Christianity.

What's especially funny is that this thread is up at the same time the RKBA crowd is bitching elsewhere about how awful it is that anybody mention nutcases like these and themselves in the same breath.

[demsrule4life]

6. I thought I saw inert in that article a couple of times

Search warrants show that, in addition to the tracer bullets, investigators discovered four used missile tube launchers, an INERT 2.75-inch rocket warhead, an INERT 81-mm mortar round.

[MrBenchley]

7. I thought it was a wonderful account

of the sort of trash that makes up the gun rights movement...

[demsrule4life]

8. I thought it was a wonderful account

on how the anti's make deceitful little changes to a story to meet their needs.

[MrBenchley]

9. Gee, dems....

You mean you think "inert" makes these loonies a little less ugly?

[demsrule4life]

10. Trust me I was

[RoeBear]

15. Why did you leave out the word 'inert'?

Where you purposefully trying to deceive people or was it an honest mistake?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSandman]

63. First they prosecuted the trash,

I said nothing...
Next up...

[alwynsw]

11. An operative word you omitted - INERT

<snip>
Search warrants show that, in addition to the tracer bullets, investigators discovered four used missile tube launchers, an inert 2.75-inch rocket warhead, an inert 81-mm mortar round, homemade explosives, various types of ammunition and illegal signal flares.

Inert means that the rocket warhead and mortar round are non-functioning. If they had been de-mil'd (demilitarized), which is supposed to be the case with such items they cannot be made to function in any way. As for the missile tube launchers, the type is not stated. used LAWS rocket tubes are readily available - and legal - in most states to collectors - no license required - because they are classified as militaria collectibles as are inert rocket rounds, mortar rounds, grenades, etc. They cannot be reloaded and made to function after the factory loaded round is fired except for training models which are made to fire a plastic dart to simulate the rocket. That model is incapable of firing a live round.

I have no problem with enforcing laws - even if they are asinine. I especially have no problem enforcing laws concerning illegal explosives.

The article does not state that anything but some of the (former) military devices were destroyed.

<snip>

Bomb experts destroyed some of the military devices in the nearby desert.

I find it odd that destruction of the homemade explosives wasn't mentioned. If there were, in fact, homemade explosives; the odds are that they would be far more dangerous and unstable than inert militaria. Destruction would be the safest method of handling them.

Police often make errors concerning homemade explosives. Explosive experts make mistakes as well. When I lived in Phoenix, the bomb squad made a run to dispose of several pounds of C-4 found in a dumpster. The C-4 turned out to be a badly made batch of bread dough.
I'm in favor of erring on the side of caution. If there were homemade explosives, why was the disposition of them not mentioned?

No count on the ammunition was given in the article except for the 10 tracer rounds.

My question to you is this: does your comment "all that ammo" refer to the 10 tracer rounds and the one inert rocket round and the one inert mortar round, or does it refer to the other "various types of ammunition" found - which could be from one round of each type to thousands of rounds each type (we have no way of knowing how many types, calibers, or quantities from the article)?

California has outlawed tracer ammunition and signal flares, except for marine use of safety and distress flares, because of the risk of wildfires. I can agree with that. Enough fires happen in that state without the aid of incendiary munitions.

[MrBenchley]

12. Ask me next if I give a crap

[alwynsw]

17. I know the answer to that question.

You're saving up for a pantload. A steaming pantload.

[MrBenchley]

18. Don't need one...

The RKBA crowd already has another steaming pantload right here.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

52. I choose to laugh my ass off....

Remember, when this was a live discussion, it was on at the exact same time that the RKBA crowd was sniveling about how awful it was that anybody would ever think they had anything to do with anybody like the McShithole militia family they're STILL trying valiantly to stick up for.

[TyroneStryker]

53. I don't agree with the family

But they didn't deserve the treatment they got from the PRK. Who cares if they are eccentric?

[MrBenchley]

54. Gee, I haven't heard that PRK crap in years...

Back then it was usually the vilest right wing pieces of shit who were railing about the "People's Republic of Kalifornia"....

[TyroneStryker]

55. Come to Kentucky

You'll hear it every time California comes up. Nice try in the attempt to link me to the "vilest (SIC) right wing pieces of shit".

[MrBenchley]

56. No thanks...I don't need chiggers and bigots

And do you have to repeat everything every redneck buffoon in your neck of the woods says?

[TyroneStryker]

57. Way to write off an entire state as being bigoted

I am very impressed with your powers of arguement. So, how is life in New Jersey? I don't visit there because of the corruption and toxic waste.

[MrBenchley]

58. Hey, I know people from Kentucky who are liberals

and none of them would parrot dunghill-stupid right wing rhetoric like the "People's Republic of Kalifornia" or sit around wringing their hands over whether the McShithole family can get their hands on live morrtar rounds and rockets.

Obviously some people run in different circles.

[TyroneStryker]

59. Does that mean that you think that I am bigoted?

Because I've been known to call it the PRK?

BTW, I don't run in circles, unless I'm on a track. I think that this running in circles you talk about could be a balance disorder. You should tell your friends to get that checked out.

edit to say: Glad to see the bigot reference removed from you post.

[alwynsw]

72. Got a link for that?

For verification purposes only.

[alwynsw]

64. Two words about Kentucky and bigotry:

Happy Chandler.

Look it up.

[alwynsw]

65. Two more:

Abraham Lincoln

[alwynsw]

66. Two more:

Cassius Clay - NOT THE BOXER

[alwynsw]

67. Two more:

Roy Wilkins

[alwynsw]

68. Two more:

Muhammed Ali - Yes the boxer this time

[alwynsw]

69. Two more:

Robert Bingham

[alwynsw]

71. And we won't even talk about the wonderful denizens of NJ

and how they treated the immigrants coming in through Ellis Island.

Don't EVEN try to lay all of that one off on New York.

[alwynsw]

74. We even have a racist Senator, Mitch McConnell

Oh! That's right. His wife is from Taiwan. Even our repugs aren't racist in Kentucky.

[MrSandman]

75. ROFL

[alwynsw]

76. Shh! Don't tell Jerry Abramson he's Jewish.

He's the Mayor of Greater Louisville (formerly Louisville), our largest city. Yup. The bigots elected him alright!

[alwynsw]

77. We redneck buffoons can dodge the chiggers.

It's called repellant. You know, Cutter, 6-12, Off!

I used it once in New England when I lived in NH. It kept the pests away there as well.

[demsrule4life]

13. The dishonest and deceitful anti's would never willfully change a story

would they?

[MrBenchley]

20. Dems

When you're done weeping about why these crazies couldn't have live mortar rounds and missiles, get back to me...and I'll tell you how dishonest the RKBA movement is.

[TyroneStryker]

79. Yeah....Surrrrrrrre

Just like the anti movement that changes the meanings of stories. Cry me a friggin river.

[alwynsw]

14. Maybe they were planning to toss the bullets and say "BANG"

Nowhere in the article does it mention the the Sherburne's had any firearms. Neither does it state that any firearms were confiscated. no mention is made of firearms of any sort being found in any of the other 15 homes in 3 states that were searched because of personal or business relationships with the Sherburnes.

The logical conclusion would be that they had no firearms.

on edit: The article did refer to gadgets several times in reference to the militaria they sold at gun shows and by mail order. No firearms:

<snip>

Investigators suspected the pastor might have taken some undiscovered weapons from the home. Stanfield said deputies searched his home, his tenant's home and the one-room school while children were in class. No weapons were found.

[MrBenchley]

19. So tell us...

What were they planning to do with all that ammo?

Or even better, don't tell us. It's hilarious to see to what absurd lengths the RKBA crowd will go in their defense of their fetish.

[RoeBear]

21. Now will you answer my question?

Do you think 5 years was an appropriate sentence?

[FeebMaster]

22. All that ammo?

Ten tracer rounds doesn't sound like all that much.

[MrBenchley]

24. "investigators found a stockpile of ammunition...."

I suppose I have to apologize for leavinng out the word "inert"...since it seems that the RKBA crowd have such short attentionn spans that they cannot remember the actual content of the thread from one post to the next......

[RoeBear]

25. Well damn,

an apology. That elevates your stature in my eyes.

[alwynsw]

73. I'm impressed!

[FeebMaster]

27. All of the other stuff was legal.

At the end of the five-month investigation, the Sherburnes — a deeply religious couple with six children — each pleaded no contest to one felony count of possessing 10 tracer bullets, which illuminate the trajectory and are legal in several states but not California.

All of the other stuff was legal. Maybe they buy in bulk to get cheaper prices.

Next in the news, a mother of four is under investigation after being seen leaving a Costco with a case of toilet paper.

[MrBenchley]

29. Yeah, su-r-r-r-r-r--r-r-r-re, that's the ticket....

"Next in the news, a mother of four is under investigation after being seen leaving a Costco with a case of toilet paper."
Yeah? She gonna put them in the tunnels under her house next to the rocket launchers?

[FeebMaster]

32. Does it matter? (nt)

.

[MrBenchley]

33. You were the one pretending there was no ammo....

[FeebMaster]

36. No. I clearly said

that all of the other stuff was legal.

[MrBenchley]

37. Yeah, sur-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-re....

"FeebMaster (23 posts) Sun Jan-25-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. All that ammo?
Ten tracer rounds doesn't sound like all that much."

Funny, I don't see anything there about "all that stuff," much less its legality.

But then I'm not desperately trying to stick up for militia nutcases with tunnels under their house.

[alwynsw]

78. Look who's griping about getting OT.

Pot, meet kettle.

[alwynsw]

26. The question is quantity.

"All that ammo" implies a great deal of ammunition.

Nowhere in the article is a count given.

[FeebMaster]

28. What does it matter?

Owning ammunition is legal.

[MrBenchley]

35. Actually

the question seems to be how desperately the RKBA crowd will spin to stick up for the sort of scum that they're denying they ever stick up for in another thread....

It would be infuriating if it wasn't so astoundingly funny.

[demsrule4life]

39. I never said if I defended them one way or the other

what I don't defend is people lying to make a point.

[MrBenchley]

46. Yeah, surrrrrrrre......

We can tell....

[demsrule4life]

47. Who is we?

I really doubt it is most of this board.

[alwynsw]

31. Sell it (if the licenses were in place), collect it (there are many

collectors), or give it away. Who knows? It's not relevant to the issue. No mention was made of any intent to use it for any purpose.

[MrBenchley]

34. Hahahahahahahaha...

[alwynsw]

42. You asked. I gave possibilities.

[MrBenchley]

45. Yeah, sur-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-re

[RoeBear]

16. So, do you agree...

...with the five year sentence? Or wasn't that harsh enough?

[FeebMaster]

30. What's really sick

What are ten tracers worth? A couple of bucks, maybe. What did that five month investigation cost. Tens of thousands of dollars, at least.

[JOE T]

38. Fun and sun in the PRK

Pretty sad that someone goes to jail over 10yr old rusty tracer rounds but no weapon to fire them out of. Whats next? a 10 yr sentance for having a loaded paintball gun.
Joe

[alwynsw]

40. Likely in the PRK.

Hell, I thought I was gonna get arrested for being a fat guy ordering biscuits and gravy at the IHOP in Temecula. What I don't need is a pimply-faced 17-year-old lecturing me about my diet.

[alwynsw]

41. And meantime, accross the country in sunny, free D.C.

Carl Rowan still skips out on any consequences for shooting a kid for being in his yard with an unregistered, unlicensed handgun.

It appears that if you spout the gun control line loudly enough, the laws don't apply. Just ask Sarah Brady about her 30.06. (Delaware)

[MrSandman]

43. But wasn't it a harmless gift?

(The '06)

[alwynsw]

49. So she said. But then, she was violating Delaware law at the time

, therefore committing a criminal act(s), and therefore a criminal. And we all know how honest criminals are.

[MrSandman]

61. Exxactly...

A straw purchase.

ed fer spellin

[RoeBear]

44. I think we have to let him off the hook now...

...he died in 2000.

http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/rnames-nf/Rowan+Carl

[alwynsw]

48. Yea. But the point is still valid.

[DonP]

60. Incredibly cool site, thanks (off topic)

It goes well with the "Where are they buried" book I picked up on the remainders table at B&N.

I just wish they had pictures of the deceased. Some of the names are familiar but I can't connect them with a face.

Yup, liberal writings aside, Carl Rowan was a hypocrite and an elitist at heart when it came to gun rights. "It's OK for me but not for thee."

[alwynsw]

50. Are these the cops who did it? They look mean.

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2004031262,00.gif

[MrSandman]

62. My ass, maybe...

my doughnuts, never!

[alwynsw]

70. LMAO