Ohio boy allegedly kills mother with Christmas gift - a 22 Rifle

[RamboLiberal]

A 10-year-old Ohio boy was being held in custody on Monday for allegedly shooting and killing his mother with a rifle he received as a Christmas present.

Deborah McVay, 46, was found dead of a single gunshot wound to the head at her home in Big Prairie Sunday night, according to a statement from the Holmes County Sheriff's Office. Big Prairie is located between Cleveland and Columbus.

McVay's mother and the 10-year-old's grandmother, Beulah Mae Mike, said the .22 caliber rifle allegedly used in the shooting had been a Christmas present to the boy.

"He was too young to have a gun," Mike said. Mike said she believed the shooting "had to be an accident."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70244J20110103

MILLERSBURG, Ohio -- A 10-year-old boy was charged in Holmes County Juvenile Court this afternoon with murdering his 46-year-old mother in their Big Prairie home.

Joseph McVay, 10, denied the charge through his court-appointed attorney, Andrew Hyde.

Holmes County Prosecutor Steven Knowling said McVay will not be tried as an adult. The boy, who appeared in shackles in Holmes County Juvenile Court, will remain in custody at the Richland County Juvenile Justice Center in Mansfield.

Deborah McVay, 46, was found dead of a single gunshot wound to the head Sunday night in Big Prairie, said Holmes County Sheriff Tim Zimmerly. Paramedics found McVay lying face down on her living room floor, and she was pronounced dead at the scene, Zimmerly said.

http://www.chillicothegazette.com/article/20110103/UPDATES01/110103007

[aquart]

1. Or the boy has naturally great aim.

I'd be hesitant to give a ten-year-old a butter knife. They're all crazy.

[oneshooter]

8. My sons all got their first"real gun" a 22cal rifle at age 10.

They all were taught firearms safety by myself, shot, with supervision, starting at eight years old. This was with a Daisy BB gun and aluminum cans. The guns were all kept in one of my safes( they still are). They can only use their 22 at the range, and under My supervision.

One now sells insurance and shoots HighPower, the second in in the US Army as a Field medic, and the 12yr old shoots 50 and 100 yd 22rf benchrest.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[SteveM]

12. At age 10, we had fired every gun in our household numerous times...

...but we were all trained in how to load/unload safely, keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction, keeping the arm unloaded in the house....

[slackmaster]

20. At age 10 I knew were the guns and the ammunition were kept

I had been taught by a highly competent instructor about the lethality of firearms, how to safely handle, unload, and clean them; and didn't dare mess with them because I knew I'd get in serious trouble.

That said, I would never leave both a firearm and ammunition were an unsupervised child or an untrained person of any age could get them.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DJ13]

3. Why was it LOADED?!

[maxsolomon]

5. It doesn't work unless it's loaded.

A preventable, pointless tragedy that will be repeated in America, in one form or another, every year in perpetuity.

[Atypical Liberal]

17. But fortunately, it is a very rare ocurrance.

Fortunately, such accidents are rare, and the rate of accidental firearm deaths has been in decline, and continues to decline, for over a century.

[rhett o rick]

36. Not very fortunate for the dead mother. We have too many guns in the US. nm

[Atypical Liberal]

50. It's like getting struck by lighting.

It's like getting struck by lightning. Very tragic for the people involved, but still a rare occurrence.

There are something like 40-80 million firearm owners in this country, and they own between 200-300 million firearms. Yet annually there are only about 13,000 violence-related firearm homicides(2007 WISQUARS data). That means that less than 1% of firearm owners in this country are likely to be involved in violence-related firearm homicides.

Also, accidental firearm deaths continue to decline, as they have for the last 100 years, in spite of record firearm and ammunition sales.

When you consider that most firearm homicides are committed by people with extensive criminal backgrounds, it's easy to see that the primary indicator for violent crime is not the number of firearms in circulation, but rather the criminal history of an individual.

[rhett o rick]

56. Rationalization is the key to happyness. Your happy but I feel there are way too many

fire arm related deaths.

[Atypical Liberal]

57. Being rational is a good trait!

>Rationalization is the key to happyness. Your happy but I feel there are way too many fire arm related deaths.

When considering political policies like the second amendment, it is always best to work from a position of rationality based on facts rather than on feelings.

Rationally, we can see that firearm-related deaths, accidental and otherwise, continue to decline, in spite of over two years of record firearm and ammunition sales.

[PavePusher]

69. Has anyone here disagreed with you on that? n/t

[cleanhippie]

28. You are right.

And there are so many other products available to the public that also fit that statement.

[maxsolomon]

31. Why do I suspect you're about to use the Automobiles-are-deadly-weapons canard?

I'm quite aware: they don't work unless they have gasoline in them.

[cleanhippie]

32. Actually, I was thinking about bathtubs.

More people die each year as a result of slipping/drowning in a bathtub.
And there are HUNDREDS of other products that unintentionally kill their users.

But I would like to know what your solution to the gun, auto and bathtub pointless deaths is.

[maxsolomon]

63. i don't HAVE a solution - no one does.

the product functioned as designed.

[Euromutt]

21. I would assume the kid loaded it himself

This is speculation on my part, but I suspect somebody made the mistake of giving the kid some live ammunition as well, and while he was unsupervised, he decided to see if he could successfully load the rifle. Evidently, he could.

Back when I was in basic training (not in the U.S. armed forces), it was unavoidable that we'd have to lug our rifles around from time to time, but our training cadre would not issue us blank or live ammunition unless and until its use was imminent, e.g. we'd only be issued live rounds at the range immediately prior to stepping up to the firing line.

As a result, the thing I've found most challenging about privately owning firearms is being in charge of my own ammunition; I don't have my senior drill instructor peering over my shoulder to see whether I've cleared my weapon properly and handed in my spent cases. (Though if I imagine he's standing there, it makes me much more attentive to the details of firearms safety.)

[DonP]

9. Help us out here - some of us missed the part about the NRA in the article? ntxt

[cutlassmama]

4. He was too young to have a gun

[SteveM]

13. Untrained, a 30-yr-old is too young to have a gun.

[PavePusher]

14. Correction: He was too young to be unsupervised with a gun. n/t

[EC]

6. Another McVay...?

So what on earth motivated his mother to buy a 10 year old a gun?

[Euromutt]

18. What do you mean "another McVay"? Which McVays were there previously?

Or are you thinking of Timothy McVeigh? Different spelling; it's kind of important.

[one-eyed fat man]

22. Maybe he meant this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=350571&mesg_id=350646

The geek at the airport in North Carolina who created such a tempest the entire one handled teapot was in jeopardy!

There were several posters here who held his name, "McVey" as a definitive indicator of some sinister conspiracy.

[Glassunion]

25. Or this one...

Captain McVay

http://www.ussindianapolis.org/mcvay.htm

[jazzhound]

42. Have you read "In Harm's Way", GU?

Heavy.

[Glassunion]

48. No I have not. I should check it out. Thanks. nt

[Euromutt]

44. Well, that one's spelled differently too

Some sinister conspiracy of what? People of (northern) Irish descent? There's a ton of variations on the name, including McVey, McVay, McVeigh, McVeagh, McVae, McAvoy, McEvoy, but all are basically transliterations from Gaelic of the same name (though what exactly that name was originally in Gaelic is uncertain due to the ravages of history).

[jazzhound]

41. Being a blood relative of Charles Butler McVay III

I couldn't agree more.

;-)

[madmax]

7. Insanity - I swear they're putting something in the water. nt

[tularetom]

10. Times have changed

When I was 8 years old my father gave me a single shot .410 shotgun and spent a couple hours teaching me the basics of firearms operation and safety.

The shotgun was then locked in a cabinet and I was only allowed access to it when an adult was present.

When I was 14 I bought a deer rifle Winchester Model 94 with money I made cutting hay and at age 16 I was allowed full access to the gun cabinet.

I followed more or less the same timeline with my own kids, and my daughter would have done the same with her two girls but they weren't very interested.

My grandson, currently age 14 is a different story. He's such an airhead none of us wants to allow him access to any firearm until he demonstrates some maturity.

At 10 I wouldn't have trusted him to look at a rifle, let alone own one and I think this is true for most kids anymore.

I'm sorry that the mom was killed. A 10 year old kid in the year 2010 is waaay too young to own a rifle.

[Drale]

11. Some adult supervision could fix alot of the problems

that we have today, not all but alot of them.

[one-eyed fat man]

24. You are right.

When I was a kid you could legally hunt, unsupervised, at age 11. But back in the Fifties we were more responsible as kids because our parents had higher expectations. After our chores were done, we often went hunting, by ourselves! In the summer we would thin out the groundhogs in the pastures. In the fall, Mom welcomed a big cottontail or a nice fat ruffed grouse for the supper table. Venison was a routine part of winter meals.

When I grew up, if your parents couldn't trust you with a pocket knife by age 8, a .22 rifle by age 10, and your own shotgun by age 12, you were pretty much a failure in the eyes of adults as well as your peers.

I was 15 in 1957. A Model '94 .30-30 Winchester was a birthday gift from my great uncle. It is hard to convey how proud I felt to have earned the trust represented by that second-hand gun. It was my first center-fire rifle and I still have it. It has put a lot venison on the table.

The perspective has changed. Eighteen year olds I was in the Army with were men! Today's 18 year old in college is still very much a kid.

[Katya Mullethov]

67. This method is still in use

Witness these two toe heads :
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W1ULcI74q4e-GGqCMozshA?feat=embedwebsite
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/06DqRKgUbRZSWHjXH3FOuA?feat=embedwebsite



Their Mother's blog is quite entertaining . It's a satirical view of life on an overrun South Texas ranch .
http://rancholoslosmalulos.blogspot.com/
Tell me what you think .

[jazzhound]

68. Thanks for sharing the photo and story, OEFM!

Wonderful!

Although I grew up in an urban SoCal environment, my Dad grew up on a farm in ND. He bought me a BB rifle as a kid, and eventually a .22 bolt action that we fired in the desert. When I was 16, I spent a lot of time shooting on the farm where he grew up when I visited my aunt & uncle who still resided there. I recall that the farm boys were surprised that "the city slicker" could actually hit targets with the varmint rifle. Then too my best friend growing up went hunting with his Dad all the time out of state -- and we spent a lot of time handling his Dad's unloaded hunting rifles under supervision. So I guess I got a mix of urban & rural influence growing up -- which has obviously dictated my attitudes about firearms.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. That gift idea worked well

not.

[stray cat]

16. Maybe it did - check beneficiaries of life insurance

[slackmaster]

19. I hate to admit this, but that was my initial reaction to the story as well

I'm not sure it passes the Smell Test.

[slackmaster]

23. Ohio Boy, 10, Charged With Murder After Allegedly Shooting Mom in the Head

Update from ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-boy-10-shoots-kills-mother/story?id=12529574

[MichaelHarris]

26. It seems

he didn't want to do his chores so he shot his Mom.

[Glassunion]

27. Indeed this child was not ready to have a rifle. Let alone a knife, screwdriver, baseball bat, etc..

As he confessed he did nto want to bring in firewood. If this child was willing to shoot his mother over chores, my assumption would be that he was have become violent with any other means.

[MichaelHarris]

30. Wonder

if he had shown violence before he got the .22 for Christmas?

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. If he'd done in Mom with a log, would you blame the easy availability of trees?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[cleanhippie]

29. If only she had gotten him an AK-47 and a scanner instead!

[bobburgster]

34. Never had a gun in my house,

and I never will.

[oneshooter]

35. As is your right and priviledge.....

Nobody has EVER tried to force firearms on you. That is as it should be. All we ask is that you return this by not trying to remove the choice from others.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[bobburgster]

45. I have no problems with others...

owning firearms, unless it is a threat to me. (Ex. I have a safety issue with people bring guns to political rallies.)

[PavePusher]

64. What is the issue?

Why would anyone tend to be more violent at one place than another? n/t

[lawodevolution]

40. "34. Never had a gun in my house, and never will"

Until someone breaks in to your house and brings a gun into it, then there will be a gun in your house, but not under your control.

[bobburgster]

46. That's a risk....

I'll live with.

[cleanhippie]

51. And that is your right to make that choice.

I would just hope that you do not support taking that right to make that choice away from others.

[Still a Democrat]

37. Just exercising their Second Amendment rights

Right?

[oneshooter]

38. Wrong. n/t

[Straw Man]

43. No. Not even close.

I suggest you re-read the Second Amendment. You will not find the words homicide, manslaughter, or murder in there.

But you knew that. Right?

[Still a Democrat]

47. They were exercising their Second Amendment rights

When they bought it. And then gave it to a child.

[Straw Man]

61. Oh, by "they" you mean the mother?

Or whoever bought the rifle in the first place? Yes, that person was excercising his/her Second Amendment rights. Everything that happened after that has nothing to do with the Second Amendment and everything to do with criminal behavior.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xenotime]

53. The framers of the Constitution would be so proud of him.

[RamboLiberal]

39. This kid might have been a time bomb

-----

Sunday was not the first time the family had contact with the Sheriff's Office.

In December 2006, Deborah McVay called the office to report a West Holmes School District bus driver reportedly grabbed her son (Joseph McVay) and used some modicum of force to cause him to take a seat after he was reportedly inappropriate on the bus, Fritz said.

And, in September 2007, Joseph McVay reportedly used a dustpan to swat an administrator at Killbuck Elementary School as he was being escorted to the gym, the consequence of a disruption in the classroom, said Fritz. The case was forwarded to the Prosecutor's Office, but Fritz said he did not know if McVay was charged as a result of the incident.

-----

In addition to the murder weapon, into which a second round had been chambered, and an attached magazine, containing at least one unspent bullet, investigators found a loaded 12-gauge shotgun. Both were found on the boy's bed, Fritz said

http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4957488

[guitar man]

49. so let me get this straight

A mom goes out and buys a 10 year old boy a .22 rifle for Christmas and then just hands the kid the rifle and a box of ammo?

AAARRRGGGHHH!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: :argh: :argh:

[one-eyed fat man]

54. See post 24

I was given a .22 rifle and ammo at age 10. I am 69 years old and my parents are both still alive. Are you telling me I am lagging?

[guitar man]

55. Of course not

We were different kids in a different time. My Dad gave me the guns he gave me when he did not because of my numerical age but because he observed a level of maturity in me that told him it was ok. I bet your parents did the same thing. Most kids I observe today, they just didn't come up like we did.

But before I could grab ammo and go off and shoot by myself Dad spent a lot of time with me, even with the BB gun but especially with the .22 semi-auto, drilling the operation and safety aspects into my head over and over. I get the sense that this mom just handed the kid the rifle and ammo and said "merry christmas". In that case all of a sudden you have a 10 year old with a lethal weapon and no guidance. That's my gut instinct about what happened here anyway.

[PavePusher]

58. We should hold people in the present...

to the same standards of personnal responsibility we used to. There is no excuse for letting those standards drop.

[guitar man]

59. Yeah we probably should

I don't know, it's a different day and age now. Most of the people I know with kids around 10... I wouldn't let 'em have a water gun let alone a .22 rifle.

I was raised on a farm by a big stern truck driver of a dad that kept his foot in my ass all the time. I didn't like it at the time but it's served me well later in life. But truth be told, if it was known that I was raising my kid in this day and age the way I was raised.... there would be a bunch of mewling candy asses coming out of the woodwork to shake a finger at me and demand my child be taken away.... probably some right here on this board too.

Where I grew up, we had guns because we needed them. There were water mocassins and copperheads, bobcats and coyotes and other things that made them necessary just to take a walk around our property. There were deer, quail , phesant, rabbits and squirrel we could shoot and eat. Kids drove to high school with rifles and shotguns in the gun racks in their trucks and nobody gave it a second thought.

But, it's a different world now....

[PavePusher]

62. So we change it back.

Not all of it, of course, but those areas that need it.

Change, it's what's for dinner.

[Katya Mullethov]

60. It's no excuse , but there's money in it

Just sayin' .

[Atypical Liberal]

66. We have no idea.

I have seen nothing in the article(s) that indicate whether or not the child had any previous firearm experience before or not.

[Xenotime]

52. And where are the boy's parents?!?...oh wait.