If your neighbor owns a firearm, should you let your kids play with his kids at his house? ...

[spin]

Um, Can I Ask You a Question?

There's something we have to talk about before my kids come to your house for a playdate.
By Heather Borden Herve | Email the author | January 6, 2011

****snip***

The start of the school year is also the start of open season for awkward mom meetings. My son came home from school that first month asking me to set up a playdate with a new friend, someone he hadn't known before this year. This boy had been in Driscoll, we were Miller (before the tribal merge at Cider Mill) and they'd never crossed paths in any sport or activity, until now. But boy, did they share a love of those collectible characters, and they could talk for hours in that secret language I didn't understand, about which moves worked best at whichever video game level they both had reached.

With the request for a playdate came the need to get to know the other mom. We'd have to perform that intricate mating dance to figure out if we'd mesh: will she think my house is a friendly, inviting place for her child? Do they do homework right when they get off the bus in their house too? Will my son's only snack choice at her house be sweetened with high fructose corn syrup? What questions should I ask to make sure this was a match?

But I've decided there is one question that, without question, would move from the Doozy List onto the Must-Ask list for first time playdates. And here in Wilton, where right-leaning voters are in the majority, I might find myself stepping on a few toes as soon as I ask it. But it's a pledge I'm going to make to my kids and to myself, even if asking it makes everyone uncomfortable.

"Do you have a gun in your house?"

***snip***

I'm not judging you—at all. You have your Second Amendment-given right to keep what you wish to legally have in your home. But as long as your kids don't have a problem with our dog, I think I'd like to host all future playdates between our children at my house. I'd just prefer not to be that spokesperson in some future parenting magazine article with a quote about how I wished I'd done a better job protecting my son rather than protecting the feelings of another family I was just getting to know.
http://wilton.patch.com/articles/um-can-i-ask-you-a-question

[MineralMan]

1. It's not a matter of whether there's a firearm in the house.

It's a matter of how it's stored. Ownership isn't the issue, really.

[spin]

7. Agreed. Firearms can be child proofed. ..

The important thing is to make sure your kids go to homes that have RESPONSIBLE gun owners.

[Statistical]

2. Well seeing as there are guns in my house I wouldn't have a problem.

I would be interested in how the firearms are stored. Hidden where kids will "never" find them? Or in a gun vault?

[Mark Maker]

3. GOD!! I despise "PLAYDATES"

Kids used to leave the house in the morning, play in the swamp, roll in the dirt, go to a buddies house, climb trees(and occasionally fall out of them), and get yelled at for turning up late for supper.

PLAYDATES *spit* It's part of what's wrong with this country.

[shraby]

5. Don't forget coming in at luchtime to grab a sack of

peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to take to their "fort" to eat while playing. I had quite a stack to make with 3 boys and a variable number of friends..who ever decided to play "fort" that day.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. This seems an almost annual thing

When we had kids at home we would never answer such a question. My wife would turn it to something along the lines of asking the other parent if they had gotten their kids appropriate gun safety training, something along the lines of the NRA Eddie the Eagle program and how important that can be.

Today I wear one at home most of the time due to my fairly unique situation so the question does not get asked. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HardcoreProgressive/20

[Kceres]

6. When my boys were in the play-date stage I would try to invite first.

When I talked to the parent for the invite I would say, "We'd love to have so-and-so over for a play date. We live in a safe house, no smoking, no guns." I would even mention it on birthday day invitations, "no smoking, no guns in the house" written on the bottom. I know it sounds excessive, but I had so many parents who thanked me for mentioning the issue. And, plus, that way you felt a little easier about asking when the situation was reversed. "Well, sure, I'm know Ryan would to visit after school. Do you smoke in the house or own firearms?" Better an awkward moment than a dead son.

When my boys were older, I told them that if they saw a gun at the house they were to phone me and say, "I feel like I'm going to throw-up; could you come get me?" (our code for anything that made them feel uncomfortable) and then wait outside until I arrive.

[spin]

8. What would you have said if the parent replied, ...

"Yes, I own firearms but all are properly secured."

[Kceres]

13. That happened on more than one occasion.

Then I would laugh and mention how neurotic I was and say I would feel more comfortable if we kept the play dates at my house. We actually had a neighbor we loved and our kids played together, but they had firearms and I wouldn't let my son play there. They just sort of gave the equivalence of a shrug and seemed ok with it. We socialized with them until we moved. It probably cost a few play dates in the long run, but, well, too bad. I suspect lot of kids have been killed by "secured firearms" that weren't really secured.

[cleanhippie]

14. Sounds like you have an irrational fear.

Why does an inanimate object, properly stored and locked away, frighten you so much?

[spin]

18. The chances of a young child being accidentally shot are slim ...

and in most cases unsecured firearms caused the problem.

Gun Safety for Kids and Youth

What are the statistics about young people and firearm deaths and injuries?
The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics <1> :

* In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
* This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
* The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:


* 214 unintentional
* 1,078 suicides
* 1,990 homicides
* 83 for which the intent could not be determined
* 20 due to legal intervention

# Of the total firearms-related deaths:

* 73 were of children under five years old
* 416 were children 5-14 years old
* 2,896 were 15-19 years old

***snip***

In addition to firearm deaths, we need to look at how many children and young people are hurt by guns. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that in 1997, 2,514 children aged 0-14 were non-fatally injured by guns. In the same year, 30,225 young people aged 15-24 sustained nonfatal firearm injuries. These statistics include suicide attempts and both intentional and accidental shootings <2>.

***snip***

Where and how safely do families with kids store their guns?
More than a third (35%) of homes with children—that's 22 million children ages 18 and under in more than 11 million homes—had at least one firearm, found researchers in a RAND-UCLA study <6>. But only 39% of these families keep their firearms locked, unloaded, and separate from ammunition as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. 43% of these U.S. homes with children and guns reported keeping one or more firearms in an unlocked place and without a trigger lock. Nine percent keep their guns loaded as well as unlocked. This analysis is based on data from 1994 interviews conducted in tens of thousands of households by the National Center for Health Statistics. (See Guns in the Family: Firearm Storage Patterns in U.S. Homes with Children for a fuller report.)

***snip***

Before your child goes to a friend's house, you should ask the friend's parent whether the family has firearms in the house, and how they are stored. This can be part of all the usual things you would discuss before a visit, like allergies, snacks, sunscreen, etc. emphasis added

http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

I will not argue with any decision you make as to if you would allow your children to play in a home that has a firearm. That should be your choice. I personally would have no problem as long as I was sure that the home owners were responsible gun owners. I should add that my daughter often went to the pistol range with my wife and myself and started shooting a single shot .22 caliber rifle when she was eight or nine years old (with tight supervision). She moved up to a S&W Kit gun, a small .22 cal revolver, after several months of shooting the rifle. She was very familiar with firearms and firearm safety.

[PavePusher]

21. Depends on what you mean by "a lot"...

Too many? For certain.

"A lot"? not really.

[PavePusher]

20. How about those swimming pools?

Did you have a code phrase for those too?

[madmom]

9. Can I ask you if you have a pervert or child abuser in your house? I have had

guns in my house forever and my kids friends knew NOTHING about them. Why? Because they were stored safely. What I didn't know was not one but TWO of my kids friends had child abuser relatives who frequented their house often. Woulds I have been justified if I asked if they were going to allow their brother in the house while my kid was there?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Been there, done that. Kids now grown.

And no, we wouldn't let them go over to their friend's house where we knew his dad had guns.

This friend was one of those kids every neighborhood has. Always around, rarely supervised. Broke his collar bone while riding his 3 wheeler in the street and was right back on that 3 wheeler the next day. Dad didn't want him to be afraid of the 3 wheeler.

So we figured this dad probably didn't lock up his guns. Our kids were not allowed in that house.

[PavePusher]

22. "we figured"....

Kind of like the College of It Stands to Reason, eh?

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. They didn't strike us as conscientious parents

[HardWorkingDem]

11. I would never say a firearm could be ever 100 percent "child proofed" because...

the scary thing is it can never really happen.

We were talking about this the other day and when I asked how a co-worker how he stored his firearms he said in a gun safe. I asked him how was the safe locked and he said by keys and his kids didn't know where the keys were hidden.

Well, any one who has grown up in a house with guns, especially boys, knows there is no place a parent can hid a key to a lock when it comes to kids and guns.

No matter how well hidden that key is, the location of it is probably known; even if it is changed from time to time.

Not only does a gun owner have to be responsible, but so does the gun owner's family and children. All it takes is for one child to find one key to one lock to be able to show his child hood friend what the gun looks like when the parent is not looking.

[spin]

15. There are other methods of locking a safe ...

many safes use electronic key pads with a key as a backup. I store the keys in different safes.

Also firearms can be secured with locking devices even while in a safe.



Obviously when a child becomes a teenager, he is capable of disabling many locking devices. However, by that time, he should be trained in how to handle a firearm safely. Training your children takes much of the curiosity involving firearms away.

In fact, even if you don't own any firearms, it's wise to send your children to a gun safety course that teaches how to properly handle a firearm. With 300 million firearms in our country, your children may eventually be exposed to one. Knowing basic gun safety my save their life.

[HardWorkingDem]

17. That's a good suggestion...remember the old blasting cap PSAs?

That's a good suggestion about gun safety course even if a person doesn't own a firearm. I remember growing up and my own inquisitive nature when it came to finding things my parents would try to hide. Never worked.

Remember those old blasting cap PSAs on Saturday morning cartoons? The should show ones about guns, too.

[HockeyMom]

19. My husband's were in a sold metal cabinet

with a combination lock. He was the ONLY one in the house who knew the combination. His ammo was in another metal cabinet with another combination lock. Both stored in different containers in different parts of the house.

I, let alone the kids, did not know the combinations to these. Besides which, my kids were too busy playing sports to even care about it.

Although we had guns in the house, guns were only a part of my husband's life; not mine, nor my kids. If the OP wouldn't let her kids play at my house, I could respect her feelings, because actually, I kinda felt the same way. I would just say, let the kids play at HER house, or some "neutral", like outside, place.

[one-eyed fat man]

28. How was the shopping trip?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=331344&mesg_id=331592

[HockeyMom]

29. Any advice on how Rep. Gifford, or the 9 others,

could have protected themselves with their guns? Doesn't Arizona have "good" gun laws? Where WERE all the armed citizens? Why didn't somebody SHOOT the perp instead of tackeling him to the ground?

[benEzra]

30. Not sure if guns were legally allowed in the vicinity, except for LEO's/armed guards.

Obviously no one was expecting an attack. Praying for her, and for the others.

[PavePusher]

35. They were legal.

I've been within five feet of her, open carrying, about two years ago during a similar talk-with-the-Constituents event, ironicly at another Safeway on the opposite side of town.

[one-eyed fat man]

31. Don't know, wasn't there.

The people who are dancing in her blood and blaming everyone but the shooter need to be asking him why he did it.

The unfortunate circumstances of this tragedy don't have a thing to do with you keeping your word.

[spin]

32. Rumors mention someone in the crowd firing at the bad guy ...

we will know more in 24 to 48 hours.

Even so, a legally armed individual in a crowd would have a difficult task taking a shot at a shooter and not endangering other people.

[oneshooter]

36. Could you please answer the question asked. Instead of being rude. n/t

[tularetom]

12. My kids were kids back in the 70's and the question never came up

We had guns in our house and I guess we just assumed others did as well.

[HockeyMom]

16. Both my daughters BF growing up were children of cops

It was a given there were guns in their homes. However, neither ever saw guns (I asked) unless the Dads were dressed in uniform and going to or from work.

Neither of these kids (one a boy and one a girl) were given guns or ever went shooting with their Dads. Actually, neither of them seemed to even want to talk about what their Dads did for a living. I know one of the kids Dads used to talk about some of things he experienced as an NYPD. His daughter used to leave the room when he did. It was pretty gruesome talk. I was friends with the Moms, but they, also, didn't own guns themselves or go shooting.

To the OP, would this situation bother you? I would HOPE that a law enforcement officer would know all about gun safety and storage just from going through the police academy. Plus, as I said before, these kids who we know seemed to SHUN guns because of their Dad's occupation. I suppose because they had to live with the possibility that Daddy might not come home one day. We heard of a lot of divorces among law enforcement families.

[backscatter712]

24. I keep mine in a locked gun cabinet. Where's the safety risk?

Guns handled and stored correctly are very safe.

[benEzra]

25. Just don't forget to ask about swimming pools...

...given that on a per-owning-household basis, a child is between 10 and 100 times more likely to die in a pool accident than a gun accident.

Bicycles in the home are also statistically much more dangerous than guns in the home, so don't forget to ask about bicycles too... :eyes:

Seriously, I wouldn't mind if a parent that I knew asked to make sure there would be no unsecured guns when a child was over to play; that's fine. I think it is a bit irrational to pretend that guns secured in a safe pose a credible safety risk, though.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Hey! Get outta my head.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. If I trust the parents living there to do proper weapon retention, yes.

I wouldn't let them play at a house with a pool and incompetent supervision either.

[jazzhound]

33. What AC just said. n/t

[Euromutt]

34. Well, if we're more concerned about protecting our kids than protecting feelings...

...why don't we look at some statistics for dog bites? Say, here: http://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb101.pdf
In 2008, 316,200 were treated in ERs for dog bites; of those, 38% (120,156) were under 18. Figure 3 in that report states:

Rates of dog bite-related ED visits were highest for patients ages 5-9 years <...>

with 199.3 ER visits per 100,000 population; under-5s came second (175.0/100,000), followed by 10-14 year-olds (149.1/100,000).

The CDC's WISQARS indicates that the number of 0-14 year-olds requiring medical treatment for dog bites annually is, on average, over 120,000. By contrast, the number of 0-14 year-olds annually requiring medical treatment for unintentional gunshot wounds is under 800; the number killed is under 70.

Because I'm aware of this, my kid might not "have a problem with <your> dog," but frankly, I do, not least because I know you're not going to lock your dog in a 21 cubic foot steel box.

Let me make it clear, I don't have an issue with someone asking whether I own guns--and if so, how I store them--before they let their kid come round to my house to play with mine. On the contrary, I think it's laudable. But you have to be willing to accept that there is a way to safely store firearms, and thus minimize the risk of injury to the point that it is negligible, certainly compared to the other risks you're accepting without even thinking about them (like dogs, swimming pools, unstable bookcases, and Ghu knows what else).

[DissedByBush]

37. The firearms being in safe places isn't the primary point for me

My kids know not to touch unless under adult supervision. But someone leaving them around for kids, especially somebody else's unknown kids, to possibly find would show a lack of responsibility that in general would make me not want my kids over there.

But to this person my answer would be "Yes, the loaded pistols are in a quick-open safe that only my wife and I have the combination for. Therefore I will be able to protect your children should someone threaten them while they are here. You can rest assured that they are safer than they'd be at your own house."

[jody]

38. Better question, "If your neighbor exercises an inalienable right, should you let your kids play

with his kids at his house?"

[GreenStormCloud]

39. When I was a kid, every home had a gun.

That was just part of growing up in rural Texas. It was never a factor in deciding who I could and couldn't play with.

[east texas lib]

40. 100% True...

I was also expected to have enough sense not to play around with firearms. My first time out (at age 14) on an unsupervised bird hunt was with a 20ga single shot breakover Winchester and three shot shells. Making shots count was considered a virtue by my grandfather.

[GSLevel9]

41. depends on the neighbor... some YES and some NO. nt