Was anyone in the AZ shooting crowd armed?

[Still a Democrat]

The gunman wasn't stopped with a firearm. Was no one armed?

Thought this was an interesting point raised in another thread.

[mrcheerful]

1. Yes and the excuse is there wasn't enough time for them to draw their guns

to stop the shooter.

[Hoopla Phil]

27. Could you site that please. I have not seen such reported yet.

[stray cat]

2. Yes but he helped tackle the shooter while the shooter was reloading

[Statistical]

3. In the crowd? No or at least not reported.

One man in another store was armed. He heard the shots and ran towards the gunfire. When he arrived on the scene the suspect was in a physical struggle with two victims. So rather than draw he joined the struggle and pinned the gun to the ground.

Part of having a CCW is knowing when NOT to use the gun. He did exactly what he should have.

[Frustratedlady]

6. Was he also the one who almost shot at the guy who had taken the gun away?

Someone yelled at him that they had the shooter on the ground?

Whoever it was, has admitted he almost shot the wrong man.

[SaveAmerica]

9. Yes, same guy. I believe he was interviewed on MSNBC if you look for clips there

I have it streaming often lately and it was there in the days following the attack when he was interviewed and he said that he almost shot the other guy who had a gun. That also answers the original question, there was someone else there with a gun.

[Statistical]

11. The "other guy" with a gun was another person picking up the suspects gun.

[shadowrider]

12. Wrong. He didn't almost shoot the wrong guy since he didn't draw

precisely because he didn't know good guy from bad guy. He helped subdue the gunman, kept his weapon holstered albeit with safety off and acted exactly as he should have.

He did say that had he drawn, he might have shot the wrong person.

[SaveAmerica]

20. I found the clip, it was the night after the shooting I believe

http://www.wikio.com/video/joe-zamudio-shot-man-holding-gun-4923853

"I saw another individual holding the firearm"... "everyone said no no, it's this guy"

"I almost shot the man with the gun"

This conversation stayed with me because of his words at the end, that he almost shot the man with the gun (who was not Loughner).

[geckosfeet]

4. There are several accounts of the reactions of the armed citizens on the scene.

And they simply point up the fact that being armed in these types of situations is not a free pass. You need training, situational awareness, and split second decision making capabilities.

[rfranklin]

8. And we know that everyone who carries a gun meets those standards...

right?

[Statistical]

13. Well statistically CCW shoot the wrong person less often then Police do.

If you don't want to carry then don't. If you think it will never save anyone then think that.

Everyday people prevent themselves from becoming victims by effective self defense with firearms.

Nobody is trying to convince you that you should too, just don't take that option/choice from those of us who do.

[rfranklin]

14. Interesting statistic...

Can you direct me to the source?

[Statistical]

17. Here you go.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1143&full=1

Consider, for example, an argument that is not made by opponents of licensing laws but that they could also use to suggest that citizens' carrying arms will result in needless deaths. The police, who are "extensively trained" in the use and security of their weapons, mistakenly kill about 330 innocent citizens a year. <77> How many more wrongful deaths, then, might one expect at the hands of poorly trained permit holders? Although the argument exhibits the same logic, opponents of licensing laws do not seize on it. Doubtless that is due in part to the fact that it does not show the police in too favorable a light, yet it is upon them that the opponents of licensing laws are asking us to rely when they try to disabuse us of the notion of relying also on ourselves. But a more telling reason is that the information is actually available to refute it. In fact, gun owners mistakenly kill about 30 innocent persons a year, one-eleventh of the number killed by police. <78>

While any mistaken shoot is bad CCW have better track record than Police. Less than 0.13% of CCW issued in FL have been revoked due to criminal activity. CCW holders are overwhelmingly law abiding and responsible. They actually are arrested at a lower rate than either general public or the Police.

Note: this isn't a slam against cops. Many times CCW are "on the scene" rather than "arriving to the scene" and as such have more complete information. Also most CCW use firearms in direct self defense. Someone pulls a knife, they shoot them. These simpler situations make mistaken identity less likely. Someone pulls a knife on me they are getting shot. Period. As a private citizen I am under no obligation to attempt an arrest, determine motive, or resolve situation with less force. Lethal threat = lethal force response.

[shadowrider]

15. You can bet your bottom dollar there were more armed people in the audience

In this case, they all met those standards since NO ONE drew.

[RSillsbee]

16. I know I do

whether or not you do isn't my concern

[geckosfeet]

19. It should be your concern. An untrained defensive shooter in a chaotic situation is dangerous.

[Statistical]

21. Stats don't bear that out.

Police mistakenly shoot the wrong person 11x as often as CCW holders.

[geckosfeet]

22. I saw the stats. I am still concerned about untrained ccw's blasting away..

[Statistical]

23. Emotional response vs. Logical Response.

I can't help you there.

As long as you don't infringe upon my rights I have no problem with your opinions.

When you start taking fears not based on Statistical evidence and pushing policy to solve an non-existent problem well that is when it is no longer ok.

[geckosfeet]

24. Not asking for your help. IMO, one 'accidental' death is too many.

[RSillsbee]

25. But 11X the rate of CHP holders is OK? MT

[geckosfeet]

26. Not to me it isn't.

[Hoopla Phil]

28. Could you please site them? I have not seen such reported yet.

[RamboLiberal]

29. Citizen - there was 1 citizen who was not event

But in a store. By the time he got there the shooting was over and he helped restrain the killer.

[Ian David]

5. The one person who was armed says they almost shot the wrong person. n/t

[phantom power]

10. My neighbors know that guy, who nearly shot the wrong person.

I'm glad that nobody else opened fire. We might have had even more victims.

[LeftinOH]

7. Even if someone else was armed- what are the chances that the shooter

would have been spotted soon enough to prevent him from what he was about to do.. or, to stop him *while* he was shooting?? Probably pretty slim.

[andtoto2]

18. shopping with guns

I work in a Big Box store in Az. I am amazed at how many shoppers think that they have to be armed to buy a bag of mulch or a can of paint. Occasionally we have a customer with 2 side arms. WTF?

[spin]

34. Do people leave their cars in your parking lot and enter your store ...

1) Crime often occurs in parking lots.

2) Leaving a firearm in your car could lead to it being stolen.

Carrying two firearms is called a New York Reload.

[jeepnstein]

30. Watch the video of Hinckley shooting Reagan.

Those guys were certainly armed. How did they catch him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDIVheB5kIM

Or this guy jumping the Pope

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNFTj963rX0

Then of course we have a room full of cops and Lee Harvey gets it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xU7Lhd7Wwo

Just because you have a gun doesn't make it the right tool for every job.

[X_Digger]

32. Interesting catch-22

First it's, "Carrying a gun, playing John Wayne, just waiting to shoot someone.."

Then when someone carrying a gun doesn't stop some deranged person, it's, "See? Those carrying guns can't stop anything!"

Both are strawman arguments we see frequently, but it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" catch-22.

[jeepnstein]

33. It's all about knowing the right tool for the job.

Of course that doesn't work so well if you don't have many options.

Calling for the abolition of CCW because nobody used a firearm to stop Lougher's aggression is just dumb. The bum's rush is a perfectly acceptable way of dealing with a scenario like this.

[RamboLiberal]

31. Account of the 1 citizen who was armed

The new poster boy for this agenda is Joe Zamudio, a hero in the Tucson incident. Zamudio was in a nearby drug store when the shooting began, and he was armed. He ran to the scene and helped subdue the killer. Television interviewers are celebrating his courage, and pro-gun blogs are touting his equipment. "Bystander Says Carrying Gun Prompted Him to Help," says the headline in the Wall Street Journal.

But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!'"

But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of (the real shooter), holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns/slatecom