Carrying a gun? Expose it: No concealing

[BeFree]

If you are carrying a gun, I deserve to know that you are.

Either wear it outside your clothes or put a mark on your forehead so that I may know to either get the hell away from you, or watch you very closely and be ready to disarm you.

If the gun-toting Loughner had to follow this rule, it wouldn't 't have happened.

[jeepnstein]

1. What makes you so special?

And good luck with trying to disarm me.

Loughner had a problem with lots of rules so I don't think one more would have made a bit of difference. Last time I checked it was against the rules to shoot someone unless they were a threat of death or serious bodily injury to yourself.

[BeFree]

2. It was the gun

He had a gun. If the people knew he had a gun they could have stopped him before he pulled the trigger.

Elementary, really.

[badtoworse]

4. Do you honestly believe people like him would follow such a rule?

[BeFree]

5. When they buy a gun

Tattoo their foreheads. No tattoo, no gun sold.

[badtoworse]

10. This is "tongue in cheek" right? OK, you got me.

[chibajoe]

13. This is a joke, right? You can not possibly be serious.

What if I want to buy a gun, but have no desire to ever carry it, should I still be tattooed? Or what if I hate guns but inherited one from my grandfather and kept it for sentimental reasons, does that mean I have to get the tattoo also?

Please tell me that this is a joke, because the irony of someone with the username "Befree" advocating tattooing people who choose to live a certain lifestyle would just be too much.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. I'm gonna need a bigger forehead.

[jeepnstein]

55. Give it time.

[badtoworse]

58. Good Gawd!! Those aren't real, are they?

[cleanhippie]

50. Yeah, this is a rational conversation.....NOT!

[PavePusher]

71. With a big red letter, amiright? n/t

[Glassunion]

94. Yeah. The yellow star and pink triangle were already taken for identifying other undesirables.

[cognoscere]

82. You might want to Google the word "makeup". N/T

[rrneck]

3. Actually, no.

You have no such right.

[BeFree]

7. A well regulated militia

I want gun owners well regulated.

[shadowrider]

15. I already am

My weapon is cleaned monthly, or more if I fire it at the range, and is in good working order.

[jeepnstein]

16. I am.

I've got the proper tools and training to be useful for the defense of my community. Most of that has been paid for out of my own pocket.

[shadowrider]

32. Psssssst. Do you think he has any clue as to what "well-regulated" actually means? n/t

[jeepnstein]

42. Not a chance.

[rrneck]

63. They already are.

Regulating murderers and lunatics is more difficult

[guitar man]

6. Unbelievable

There's a rule that he wasn't supposed to go there and kill people, that didn't stop him. Do you think he cared about any laws or rules at all? If he didn't get his weapon through legal means he would have turned to the black market, or availed himself of dozens of other ways to kill a bunch of people. Such a law would have done nothing in the context of his actions that day.

[BeFree]

9. Oh?

If I was there and knew he had a gun, I would have been ready to jump him at the first move. As would millions of others.

We could sure save a lot of misery if gun owners were readily identified, eh?

[guitar man]

11. so you're telling me

that a mentally unstable whackjob intent on murdering as many people as he can is going to be sure to follow the law and not conceal his weapon?

[BeFree]

14. When he bought the gun

He should'a had to get a tattoo an his forehead..... would'a saved a lot of grief, eh?

[guitar man]

17. Ok you got me

great satire :)

[jeepnstein]

21. Why stop there?

We could have badges for all sorts of things you find objectionable.

Thanks but no thanks.

[RSillsbee]

70. We could have badges for all sorts of things you find objectionable.

Yeah we could! Yellow stars and pink triangles and .... oh wait.


Nevermind

[provis99]

110. didn't take you to long to go all Godwin.

Any argument you now make is irrelevant.

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. Because a mandatory tattoo for ID is a such a 'progressive' idea!

It was widely used in certain places back in the nineteen-forties.

Though I believe those particular 'progressives' used the forearm....

[cleanhippie]

52. Perhaps tattoo for the ignorant would be a better idea, no?

[Katya Mullethov]

67. Or " mental defectives "

It would make it easier for DHS subsidiary Department of Judge and Congresscritter Protection to identify them in large naked groups .

[cleanhippie]

68. indeed it would!

[RamboLiberal]

20. Let's say he's more than arm reach from you?

How the hell are you going to jump him? You got 360 degree vision and are always aware of everything around you? What if he comes up behind you openly carrying. He can shoot you before you even move.

[rrneck]

35. Uh yeah

Put coulda, shoulda and woulda in one hand and shit in the other.

See which one fills up first.

[cleanhippie]

51. Who are you, Superman?

If you are that much of a badass that can spot anyone carrying a gun and can disarm them on a moments notice, why are you not a super-duper bodyguard for the president or something?

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. Agreed. Should also be painted bright yellow.

PEople that wear guns here in public, often do wear them on their belts though.
If would defeat the purpose to conceal it.
Nobody's going to know how awesome they are if they don't display it with pride like the gangstas they are.

[BeFree]

12. Yes!!

Let them be proud they are packing heat!! Why do they hide their candle like they do?
Be proud gunslingers.
Stop being such woossies... come out of the closet!!

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Now you're being silly

Nobody wants to be painted yellow.

[Shagbark Hickory]

22. High Visibility Green? That's what the British LEOs wear.

The point is we should know who is walking around with a deadly device that could be discharged, possibly accidentally.

People walking around in public with guns bothers me than people smoking in public and that bothers me a lot.

[shadowrider]

33. Here's my take

I'll correct your statement:

People THUGS walking around in public with guns bothers me than people smoking in public and that bothers me a lot.

Law abiding citizens don't bother me in the least.

[Shagbark Hickory]

43. No your correction is incorrect. I should not be walking around with a gun, in public or otherwise..

And I am not a thug.

For the same reason I should not be allowed to drive down the street in a tank or a monster truck.
I'm not mentally unstable. Like most people from time to time in traffic, I get frustrated. Someone does something that makes me yell out loud.
It's best that I don't have the capability to drive over and crush their vehicle and anything that stands in my wake.

[cleanhippie]

53. I am glad that you recognize that you should not have a gun.

Makes me feel better that you know you should not have one and don't. Thanks for making us all safer.

[Shagbark Hickory]

96. Imagine how safe we'd all be if everyone though the same way I do about guns.

[Pancho Sanza]

108. John Lennon beat you to it....but it's still a futile exercise to hope for utopia.

Unfortunately the real world with its bad people craps all over the concept.

[PavePusher]

112. Get the criminals and government (but I repeat mself)...

to agree with you and we can talk.

Good luck with that.

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. And if they don't, we can arrest them for it *after* they shoot somebody!

I'm sure the additional five or ten years tacked on their sentence(s) for whatever crime they commit with the gun

will be a stern deterrant to criminals who are already out to rob and/or kill.


Yours is a rare genius, indeed...

[spin]

27. delete...replied to wrong post.

[spin]

19. The laws in Florida require me to carry concealed ...

and to have a concealed weapons permit.

Sorry.

[RamboLiberal]

23. Depending what state you are in if everyone who carries

Open carried or suddenly turned green you might just have to lock yourself in your home or be in the state of paranoia.

[shadowrider]

36. Ya know, if the anti's had any clue as to how many concealed weapons

they have around them on any given day, they'd cower under the covers and never get out of bed.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Hilarious.

First off, if you hang around here even briefly, you will see the hysterical opposition to open carry from most progressives. Google 'Starbucks open carry'.

Second, it is amusing to me that you think Loughner would have followed any such law.

After all, he ignored laws about killing federal judges, discharging a firearm inside city limits, murder, aggravated assault, etc.


Did you really think this through before you posted it? Loughner wasn't just some 'concealed carry' advocate that 'snapped' and started shooting. He stalked his primary victim. Planned this out. It was an attempted assassination.

[guitar man]

26. I think this is satire

not sure though...

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Boy, I hope you're right.

[jeepnstein]

44. When someone throws you a slow pitch...

you still try to knock it out of the park.

[friendly_iconoclast]

56. Sacha Baron Cohen would be proud.... pure comedy gold!

[slackmaster]

29. Open carry by someone who is not wearing a uniform* violates our social norms

* It can be just about any kind of uniform, provided that it doesn't include white shoes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/Sn8iJdfTqTI/AAAAAAAAJgI/qQuuAgO7gFQ/s400/Nurse+Dr+Gun.jpg

[spin]

30. Your "mark on the forehead" reminds me of how the Nazis sued to force Jews

to wear this symbol.


Yellow badge made mandatory by the Nazis in France

[mvccd1000]

31. Many people already do.

It's common and accepted in places like Arizona and Virginia, and it's legal (but much less common) in most other states.

I've seen openly carried pistols in the grocery store, the bank, the junk yard, the eye doctor's office, on motorcyclists on the road, and probably other places I can't recall.

There were no paranoid freaks following them around ready to jump them or disarm them. Most normal citizens simply noticed them (or didn't), and then continued on with their daily routine.

I'd hate to suffer such a mental deficiency that I'd suspiciously follow such a person around watching him closely or preparing to disarm him.

[BeFree]

38. heh

Suppose he was carrying a machete? Would a mental deficiency cause you to ignore the machete?

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. Do you generally recommend assaulting people openly carrying weapons?

Protip: don't ever travel to states that do allow open carry, unless you're fond of assault and battery charges. Or getting shot,

frankly.

[YllwFvr]

109. that would be most of them

they are surrounded! Its everywhere! I do it myself ;)

[aikoaiko]

34. I am sure Loughner would've followed your propsoed law as he chose to assisinate, murder, maim.

:sarcasm:

[guitar man]

37. Here's a good one

If there was a law that would have required Tim Mc Veigh to spray paint "there's a bomb in this truck" on the side in big red letters they could have seen him and stopped the OKC bombing before it happened.:crazy: :spray:

[BeFree]

41. eh?

Do they allow trucks to get that close anymore?

Look, yall may want to live in a dangerous world and remain un-informed, but I'd like to know the nearby danger which can put a bullet through my peace.

[badtoworse]

45. Who wouldn't? Unfortunately, it's not a realistic expectation

[BeFree]

47. Metal detectors

Buy stock now. Everybody wants one.

That way If you won't agree to a mark on the forehead, the rest of us can detect how 'bad' you might be?

[friendly_iconoclast]

54. And where would these metal detectors be? Would they also be mandatory?

Inquiring minds want to know....

[BeFree]

57. Where?

In every peace loving individuals hands.

Think of it as wearing glasses... special glasses that allow you to see someone who is packing heat and is a danger... like say a poisonous snake.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. How do you propose to make people submit to them?

[BeFree]

65. Submit?

Heh, just point it at you. I don't even have to ask, all your metal are belong to us!!

The more I type, the more I like. Need a wand too wand over and discover the dangerous.
Just like at the courthouse.

[jeepnstein]

73. "all your metal are belong to us!!"

You sound... familiar.

[AtheistCrusader]

101. We didn't want all those people who have pacemakers anyway.

[guitar man]

59. ok, this is satire

bravo!! well done :applause:

[guitar man]

46. no

what I'm trying to say that you seem incapable of understanding is that if such a law existed someone already intent on committing a heinous act like Loughner did would feel no more obligation to follow that law than he felt to follow the law against mass murder. He would have simply ignored the law, concealed the weapon anyway and proceeded with his horrible plans.

edit to add:

but since this is a good bit of satire rather than serious, bravo! :applause:

[ileus]

40. I have no problem OCin' when I do.

Of course when I OC I'm normally in hunting clothing or on my bike, sometimes in the jeep.

[cleanhippie]

48. You "deserve" nothing of the sort.

[badtoworse]

61. You are really, really good!!

This is the best bit of satire I've ever seen on DU. Talk about jerking people's chains!

[friendly_iconoclast]

64. Brilliant stuff. I have to admit he had me going. Using the 'plant' was a nice touch.

I can't wait to see more of his stuff.

[guitar man]

66. yeah, he got me at first too

nice way to play the devil's advocate for sure :spray:

[RSillsbee]

69. If the gun-toting Loughner had to follow this rule, it wouldn't 't have happened.

Well, yeah, because he followed that rule against murdering people so well right?

[PavePusher]

72. Two years ago, I stood 15 feet from Congresswoman Giffords...

with an openly carried 1911 and two hands-full of grocery bags, while talking to her aide. (I got there too late to speak to her directly, she was finishing her conversation with the last person and getting ready to move to another location.) No-one even blinked.

It's not the gun, it's the person and intent.

Your bigotry seems to be 'open carry' as well.

[BeFree]

74. I bet you scared them?

Ya think? They could actually see your gun?

[PavePusher]

75. Open Carry is legal and not uncommon here in Tucson.

Occasionally, a snow-bird or exceptionally slack-jawed tourist calls the police in a tizzy, to be informed to call back if the carrier starts to commit a crime.

Your manufactured hysteria is not a valid currency here.

[BeFree]

78. Were they scared, or not?

Do you think anyone would be scared of someone waving a gun around?

It really is a simple question. Try not to avoid it, please.

[PavePusher]

83. I was not "waving a gun around".

I don't know if anyone was scared.

No-one said anything, no-one drew away from me, no-one screamed or ran or fainted or even seemed to take particular notice of me, other than the aide I spoke to.

I've been O.C.ing here for the 3+ years I've lived here. Had a few short conversations with people curious about the practice, but no disparaging comments anywhere.

P.S. Nor in Utah, New Hampshire or Vermont. I've even O.C.'d in California a few times, but you can't have ammo in the gun while you do so, unless you have a Cali specific Concealment permit. Strange place, Cali.

[cleanhippie]

76. Uh, how did you get that anyone was "scared" in that situation?

Now that your original assertion has been thoroughly debunked, please do not resort to childish games.

[BeFree]

77. That's right?

Guns don't scare people, only people scare people?

[cleanhippie]

79. Yup.

Ignorance is really what scares people. Wouldn't you agree?

[BeFree]

80. Really?

Guns don't scare people? Now that would be a damned stupid ignorant idea, right?

Why have a gun if it doesn't scare someone?

[cleanhippie]

86. Not sure. Mine are not for that purpose.

In fact, mine never sees another human being except for at the range where all the humans are firing guns and not scared at all, so your assertion that a gun is for nothing but fear is once again, totally busted.

I gotta say, you are sounding a bit ridiculous at this point.

[BeFree]

89. So

Why do you have a gun?

Is it because you are afraid of other guns?

[cleanhippie]

92. Because I can.

Thats all the reason I need. Fear is not a factor at all.

What is your reason for your fear?

[Straw Man]

88. Not scared.

Guns don't scare people? Now that would be a damned stupid ignorant idea, right?

Depends on the people. Some people are afraid of all guns, even unloaded guns just sitting on a table or locked in a safe. With other people, it's situation-dependent. Do you get scared every time you see a cop? They're all carrying guns.

Why have a gun if it doesn't scare someone?

Now there's a damned stupid ignorant idea...

[BeFree]

90. So

Why do you have a gun?

[Straw Man]

93. Why?

Mostly to shoot at targets. I do have a concealed-carry permit, but don't carry on a daily basis because it is illegal at my job. Open carry is illegal in my state, so the tattooed-forehead idea probably wouldn't get much traction here.

[PavePusher]

91. Here, I'll let you indulge yourself by giving you some material to work with...

instead of just inventing stuff.

Yes, my gun is intended to scare people. It is intended to be a potential threat to criminals, who are,by definition, people (a small subset of them, anyway). It is not intended to cause fear or alarm in non-criminal people. If it does so, it is because of their ignorance or self-contained predjudice, and unless they want to have a rational discission, or observe my behavior before forming conclusions, there's not much I can do to help them.

Hope that helps you out.

[AtheistCrusader]

102. Sooo... police are terrorizing people all the time then?

Even Officer Friendly at my elementary school?

I don't REMEMBER being terrified.

[Hangingon]

81. What is that song lyric?

"He wore his gun outside his pants for honest men to see".

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

84. "If the gun-toting Loughner had to follow this rule, it wouldn't 't have happened."

Anyone who believes this then is an Idiot.

Criminals, by default, don't obey the law.
Loughner would have illegally concealed the weapon before he illegally murdered people with it.

edit: spelling

[BeFree]

85. Not if he had a tattoo on his forehead

Try to stay with us here.

If people knew he had a gun, things would have been different.. may not have even happened.
The element of surprise was a very large element, yes?

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

103. Makeup is hard.

[Glassunion]

95. Dude!!! Thank you.

You owe me a new keyboard. Not to mention the 6 people in my office that are staring at me after I spit my Gatorade onto my computer.

:spray:

It's still in my nose... THE BURN!!! They must put battery acid in Gatorade. AAAAHHHHH!

[benEzra]

97. Are you serious?

Either wear it outside your clothes or put a mark on your forehead so that I may know to either get the hell away from you, or watch you very closely and be ready to disarm you.

If the gun-toting Loughner had to follow this rule, it wouldn't 't have happened.

Seriously? You think someone about to commit a murder won't conceal their gun if they think concealing it is a crime?

FWIW, I believe that from a public safety standpoint, a tactical standpoint, and a "don't unnecessarily alarm the paranoid" standpoint, discreet concealed carry is superior to open carry. Although open carry does allow you to carry a larger gun and extended magazines that would be difficult to conceal.

[benEzra]

98. Oops, double post. (n/t)

[X_Digger]

99. deleted. n/t

[Pancho Sanza]

100. Okay everyone, I'm offering a free service here, just pay actual shipping:

I have a certified ASTM Tektronix Model 666 Satirometer calibrator that I bought at a CIA* auction last year, it has been verified to National Bureau of Standards operation and is 100% guaranteed to realign any American or European manufactured satirometer made since
2002. Just send in your malfunctioning device with a stamped self-addressed box and I will apply the latest firmware upgrade and calibrate to +/- 0.0042% accuracy, guaranteed for 90 days or 90 feet whichever comes first.

*Clever Instruments & Apparatus

oops, forgot the shipping address:
8643 Bush Blvd
Crawfish, TX 70100

[Glassunion]

105. Cool! I think mine is broken. It just keeps making a

farting sound every time I point it at the screen.

[Pancho Sanza]

107. No, it's not broken, you're just holding it upside down.

:rofl:

[PavePusher]

113. I put mine against my head, and it started smoking..... n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

104. A mark on my forehead?

Perhaps a scarlet G?

[Ready4Change]

106. Loughner clearly wasn't a follower of rules

"If the gun-toting Loughner had to follow this rule, it wouldn't have happened."

I seem to recall there are rules against killing people. In fact, that's one of our biggest rules. If he was going to break the big one, breaking a few smaller ones would be no problem.

So , in your rules set, carrying openly, or wearing some type of mark to indicate that you are carrying, would only be positively identifying people who follow rules. Thus, in a field of people who appear to be carrying, and who don't appear to be carrying, you would be safer to avoid the ones who DON'T appear to be carrying, because some of them could be liars.

Unless you happen to live in a world were criminals follow rules. If so, send me the address.

[Endangered Specie]

111. yes because crazed gunmen dont break rules