New .357 air rifles about to debut - other calibers also.

[Atypical Liberal]

http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/f3wai/new_357_air_gun_from_crosman_unveiling_at_shot/

"Crosman is unveiling a brand new kind of big bore air rifle. Named the Rogue, we called it the electronic PCP during development, because it uses computer control of the valve to get far greater efficiency than has ever been possible."

No direct link for this announcement, but if this is legitimate, this is big news. They are talking about constructing semi-automatic, multi-shot air guns that fire at modern firearm velocities using projectiles like .357, .30, and even .41.

This has large policy ramifications. Today, a firearm is defined as a device that uses burning propellant to propel a projectile, and of course they have significant restrictions and paperwork requirements. Air guns can be purchased anywhere with no paperwork whatsoever.

Now we will have a class of air rifles that are capable of firing firearm projectiles at firearm velocities.

[Lint Head]

1. Gee. That's comforting.

[Bonhomme Richard]

2. Just throwing another log on the fire. n/t

[rfranklin]

3. Recommended as starter weapons for the kindergartener in your family...

Where's the dog?

[shadowrider]

4. Actually not a bad idea. Teach them gun safety and handling rules at an early age n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. They already have, I believe, air rifles that fire .17 and .22 caliber projectiles.

Some .17 and .22 air rifles can shoot superonic projectiles which would certainly be considered "firearm velocities". I know for a fact that they have roughly .45 caliber air rifles that come close to 1000ft/sec... that's faster than .45acp handgun.

This is not a new thing at all.

[MineralMan]

7. It goes back a long, long way, as I pointed out in my post about

the Lewis and Clark expedition.

My old .22 Crosman multi-pump air rifle brought down a number of jackrabbits and cottontails for the table when I was a lad. I still have it, and it's been rebuilt several times. A small drop of kerosene at the rear of the pellet adds a bit extra velocity.

[MineralMan]

6. Lewis & Clark carried a high-powered air rifle on their explorations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WEsILY92o

[Katya Mullethov]

8. A bit anemic isnt it ?

This had powithy wamificathuns DECADTHES ago !

Where have all these hens been ?


Quackenbush baby !

Not be confused with the cheaply made small bore boys rifles of a century ago .

[Glassunion]

12. I had no idea

Jay Mohr was into hunting...

Cool.

[PoliticAverse]

9. Please tell me there won't be a "Go Rogue" ad campaign... n/t

[Historic NY]

10. Sheesh.....You'll really shoot your eye out!" with our great new toys.

[ManiacJoe]

11. Having never owned an air rifle,

it would seem that the described ability would require a LARGE amount of air, no? How big of an air tank are we talking about?

[lepus]

13. Not that big at all.

I once had a conversation with a man that made .45 caliber air rifles. One of his rifles had been used to bring down a cape buffalo.

The air tank is located in the butt end of the stock of his rifles and require a special pump to recharge.

[shadowrider]

14. Think paintball

Some of those guns are capable of firing at 300 fps with compressed air (or higher) and believe me, from experience, they will leave one helluva bruise.

[ManiacJoe]

18. That is why I ask the question.

Given that you are launching a much heavier projectile at a much faster speed, would that not need a much bigger tank if you want more than one shot per tank?

[shadowrider]

19. Not necessarily

I don't know the physics of it all, but I do know that forcing air, at high velocity, through a small opening, can generate significant force.

Think walking between two building with a mild breeze of 30-35 mph blowing. Outside of the two buildings, it isn't much. Between them though, it's blowin to beat the band.

[Maine_Nurse]

22. Not larger, stronger

You just need a same-sized chamber that can withstand higher pressures so you can compress more air into it. The engineering is a bit more complicated than that (port opening size and timing, method of compression, etc), but that is a pretty accurate simplified explanation.

[Pancho Sanza]

21. A high quality "beanie flip" can propel a steel ball that fast easily

What next, ban surgical tubing?

[Katya Mullethov]

25. Heroin addicts use it to run dope

Sorry , but it's gotta go .

In that same vein .
Bath salt sales are though the roof this week in Lo-eze-anna .

[tridim]

15. This is why the plasic gun argument is valid.

Not that these will be made of plastic, but it makes 100% plastic guns a possibility. We have plastics these days that are much stronger than steel.

[Glassunion]

16. Cool!

I can see that our "Freedom-Feel" that we get from TSA agents will get more... intimate. I'll bring flowers.

[one-eyed fat man]

20. You have no clue.

Castor is a widely used as an ornamental plant. You could be made very dead with an extract from castor beans. The KGB killed Georgi Markov using a weapon (an air gun) disguised as an umbrella.
He was shot in the leg in broad daylight on a London street and though he had been stung by an insect.

He went to the hospital and was dead within 72 hours. A sharp-eyed forensic pathologist discovered a drilled spherical metal pellet about .006 inches in diameter embedded in Markov's calf. Irrespective of whether the doctors treating Markov had known that the poison was ricin, the result would have been the same, because there is no antidote to ricin.

Abrin is a similar toxin, found in the highly ornamental rosary pea.

You can kill organically using eco-friendly plants, if you know how.

[Maine_Nurse]

23. Absolutely incorrect

The plastic gun argument is still as incorrect as ever. "Stronger than steel" isn't the only requirement and is usually only in one single physical property, not in the multitude that a substance must have. Heat resistance, abrasion resistance, chemical resistance, flame resistance, ability to rapidly deform then return (barrels bulge then come back to shape when a round is fired) etc, etc, etc. Even thinking high-end air rifle as opposed to firearm, it still wouldn't work for most of the same reasons.

Yes, if you have the funding of the CIA, you can have some pretty unique non-detectable items created that might withstand one or two rounds (ever) before needing to be junked, but your average criminal isn't going to spend $50,000 on something that will only fire one or two bullets in its serviceable life.

[jberryhill]

17. Invest in auto glass futures

There are already air guns that are a far cry from the Daisy Red Ryder.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks still have the idea that high-powered air guns are "just toys".

[Marengo]

24. Nothing new about this

Big bore air rifles have been around for some years now.

Check out the Korean Sam Yang and ShinSung models. Crosman is just catching up to a growing interest.