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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:47 PM Original message |
Why America's gun laws won't change... |
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gratuitous
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:49 PM Response to Original message |
1. We worship at the altar of the High Church of Redemptive Violence |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. If you had a magic wand, what would you be saying as you waved it? |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:12 PM Response to Reply #3 |
14. Strawman... |
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spin
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:28 PM Response to Reply #14 |
27. Define rational gun law .. |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #14 |
38. You apparently don't know what "straw man" means. I simply asked for your own opinion. |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:51 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. No, you suggested that we just want to ban guns |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:00 PM Response to Reply #42 |
52. I did no such thing. I said "IF you want to ban guns, just say so." |
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gratuitous
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:31 PM Response to Reply #3 |
31. I'd say |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 05:37 PM Response to Reply #31 |
64. One can always hope... |
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aquart
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:52 PM Response to Original message |
2. No. But we don't seem to know the purpose of a nation very well. |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:55 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. We are a species of bloodthirsty killer apes who are adept at making and using tools |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:09 PM Response to Reply #4 |
12. As long as you hold on to that myth |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:11 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Do you believe that God created humans in their present form a few thousand years ago? |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:15 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. You deny the capacity for rational though and redemption... |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:20 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. No, I have never denied that in any way |
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spin
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:30 PM Response to Reply #13 |
29. I believe that we are a result of alien manipulation of our DNA ... |
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john donathon
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #4 |
17. haha |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 02:59 PM Response to Original message |
5. There's a reason I don't give much weight to surveys on this issue... |
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hughee99
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:01 PM Response to Original message |
6. If I understand correctly, a number of states still have "assault weapon" bans |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:02 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. California has had full registration of handguns since 1968 |
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hughee99
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:07 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Exactly. |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:34 PM Response to Reply #11 |
33. The real problem is the gun culture and promotion of violence |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #7 |
16. And right next door here in the New Mississippi, Arizona |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:22 PM Response to Reply #16 |
22. Serious question - How many gang bangers in L.A. bother driving to AZ to get guns? |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:26 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. They don't have to |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:36 PM Response to Reply #25 |
36. That's a good one. "ole' Bubba's 2nd Amendment store" |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:54 PM Response to Reply #36 |
45. In fact, here in Tucson |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:01 PM Response to Reply #45 |
53. Oh, it's a real store? I thought it was just a well crafted zinger! |
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ProudDad
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Fri Jan-21-11 08:16 PM Response to Reply #53 |
107. Tucson IS a wonderful place. |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:11 AM Response to Reply #53 |
115. There is a gun store called "Second Amendment Sports" in Tucson. |
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Thu Jan-20-11 09:18 PM Response to Reply #25 |
99. Do you have any qualified sources to back up your statements |
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Riftaxe
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Thu Jan-20-11 06:00 PM Response to Reply #16 |
67. So the solution is for California residents to |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:03 PM Response to Original message |
8. This is sad for the American people. The NRA is a regressive, undemocratic |
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nadinbrzezinski
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:05 PM Response to Original message |
9. Actually we have a strange consensus emerging |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:21 PM Response to Reply #9 |
21. I think the extremists are getting worried. Tucson might have been "a bridge too far." |
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nadinbrzezinski
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #21 |
49. Yep, I think it is quite possibly one shooting too many |
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Katya Mullethov
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Thu Jan-20-11 10:43 PM Response to Reply #49 |
103. They are on parole and they know it |
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Straw Man
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Sat Jan-22-11 03:30 PM Response to Reply #21 |
124. Ah, those pesky minutiae... |
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DonP
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:06 PM Response to Original message |
10. How many respondents even know what an "assault weapon" really is? |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #10 |
18. Well, one good rule of thumb is |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:23 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. You could do that with a pump shotgun and 5 rounds of ordinary hunting ammunition |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:28 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. You're not impressed by anything |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:36 PM Response to Reply #26 |
35. Keep on whacking it |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:40 PM Response to Reply #26 |
60. Wasn't that a funny argument? It didn't even make sense...if that were true |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 05:40 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. A typical pump shotgun holds five rounds in its magazine |
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beevul
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Fri Jan-21-11 02:00 AM Response to Reply #60 |
106. Actually... |
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guardian
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Thu Jan-20-11 05:49 PM Response to Reply #18 |
66. if you can kill 6 and wound 13 persons in less than 15 seconds... |
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rl6214
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Sat Jan-22-11 12:59 AM Response to Reply #18 |
112. I could do that with a revolver |
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DainBramaged
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #10 |
19. Just another day of guns guns guns for everyone one one |
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RSillsbee
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Sat Jan-22-11 04:29 PM Response to Reply #19 |
125. Our guns aren't going to be taken away |
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shadowrider
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:00 PM Response to Reply #10 |
68. It's a scary looking one with a shoulder thing that goes up. It's usually made |
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Upton
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:23 PM Response to Original message |
24. We have more than enough gun laws already.. |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:30 PM Response to Reply #24 |
30. Obviously we DON'T have enough gun laws |
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Upton
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:46 PM Response to Reply #30 |
41. Obviously we do.. |
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spin
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:06 PM Response to Reply #30 |
57. Your state may have over 100,000 people similiar to Loughlan |
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consigli
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:08 PM Response to Reply #57 |
78. Don't jump to conclusions |
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spin
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:34 PM Response to Reply #78 |
84. In this case I believe them... |
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one-eyed fat man
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:54 PM Response to Reply #30 |
76. If any of the people |
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Thu Jan-20-11 09:22 PM Response to Reply #30 |
100. Obviously you are wrong |
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oneshooter
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Thu Jan-20-11 09:29 PM Response to Reply #30 |
101. Would you be willing to surrender both houses of Congress |
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oneshooter
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Sat Jan-22-11 12:11 PM Response to Reply #101 |
120. Gee, no answer yet. He must be running scared of the thought that HE could do that! n/t |
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shadowrider
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Sat Jan-22-11 12:59 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Sometimes I think that's a tradeoff they'd be willing to settle for if only |
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OneTenthofOnePercent
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:30 PM Response to Original message |
28. Repeat after me, "Assault weapons are not a problem" |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:32 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. "criminals" generally don't commit mass murder with "illegal" weapons |
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hack89
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. Registration and bullet ID won't stop crimes |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:40 PM Response to Reply #37 |
40. "And how would "registration" and bullets with ID marking harm law abiding gun owners?" |
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OneTenthofOnePercent
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:00 PM Response to Reply #40 |
51. Perhaps Loughner would not have been stopped after 10 rounds. |
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hack89
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:01 PM Response to Reply #40 |
54. Irrelevant to the issue |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:15 PM Response to Reply #40 |
58. Lawrence O'Donnell made mincemeat of an AZ RW congressman last night |
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aikoaiko
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Sat Jan-22-11 09:28 PM Response to Reply #58 |
127. Actually Lawrence O'Donnel lied in that segment (or was woefully ignorant). |
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PavePusher
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Sun Jan-23-11 03:42 PM Response to Reply #58 |
136. Louey was using misplaced foaming-at-the-mouth anger and fear-mongering... |
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rl6214
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:06 AM Response to Reply #40 |
113. The AWB would not have stopped Loughlans purchase |
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rl6214
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:09 AM Response to Reply #40 |
114. The Virginia Tech shooter, Cho |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:18 AM Response to Reply #40 |
116. It won't have any effect on criminals... |
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Euromutt
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Sun Jan-23-11 05:33 AM Response to Reply #40 |
128. Ever hear of a place called Edmond, Oklahoma? |
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Euromutt
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Sun Jan-23-11 06:21 AM Response to Reply #40 |
129. It's a question of cost-effectiveness |
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OneTenthofOnePercent
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:52 PM Response to Reply #32 |
43. The question is not "how would it affect law abiding gun owners"... |
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GreenStormCloud
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:34 PM Response to Reply #32 |
71. Individual IDs on each bullet would be extremely expensive. |
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hack89
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:35 PM Response to Original message |
34. Besides historically low violent crime rates? |
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ProudDad
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:38 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. This will be changing |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:53 PM Response to Reply #39 |
44. Good point! We can bid fond farewell to THAT talking point.... |
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slackmaster
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:05 PM Response to Reply #44 |
56. It looks like you're hoping for a rise in violent crime |
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Upton
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:54 PM Response to Reply #39 |
46. Well, if you believe that to be the case.. |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #39 |
47. Why in the world did you leave paradise to go live in a state full of crazies? |
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ProudDad
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Fri Jan-21-11 08:18 PM Response to Reply #47 |
108. Because Tucson is NOT Arizona... (n/t) |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:19 AM Response to Reply #47 |
117. Open carry bigotry, much? n/t |
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Pancho Sanza
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Sat Jan-22-11 03:03 PM Response to Reply #117 |
122. Urm, I carry concealed in a different state. Maybe you should have your sarcasmometer calibrated... |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 09:08 PM Response to Reply #122 |
126. Aargh, I meant... |
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Pancho Sanza
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Sun Jan-23-11 02:48 PM Response to Reply #126 |
133. No problem, I just assumed my post was one of my usual obscure ones |
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PavePusher
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Sun Jan-23-11 03:33 PM Response to Reply #133 |
134. Heh, finally got around to re-reading the thread... |
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hack89
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:57 PM Response to Reply #39 |
50. Gun ownership has sky rocketed in the past 20 years |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:16 PM Response to Reply #39 |
69. Umm, actually, no.. Phoenix is safer than Oakland |
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petronius
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:48 PM Response to Reply #69 |
73. Looks like you left out a word: isn't Phoenix safer by those numbers? |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:53 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Yah, had it flipped around.. |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:31 PM Response to Reply #73 |
83. Phoenix? I thought the OP was talking about Tucson... |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:36 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Funny how these little, er, "discrepancies" creep in, isn't it? |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:45 PM Response to Reply #85 |
90. *Both* are safer than Oakland.. |
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petronius
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:39 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. The OP said "Oakland" and "Arizona" when he started this subthread |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:45 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. how strange that the city became Phoenix.... |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:46 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. Tucson is even safer than Phoenix. |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:21 AM Response to Reply #92 |
118. Apparently, the truth. |
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petronius
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:52 PM Response to Reply #91 |
93. Why is it strange? Neither city was specified by the OP, both are in the table, |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:54 PM Response to Reply #91 |
95. LOL!! Tucson and Phoenix are even safer than New Haven, CT |
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friendly_iconoclast
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Fri Jan-21-11 10:30 PM Response to Reply #95 |
110. Your interlocutor(s) seem to have dropped the subject. Inconvenient truth, eh? |
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X_Digger
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Fri Jan-21-11 10:41 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. Apparently so. n/t |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:42 PM Response to Reply #83 |
89. *Both* are safer than Oakland.. |
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friendly_iconoclast
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:51 PM Response to Reply #69 |
74. Damn you, you trashed a perfectly good screed with verifiable facts |
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GreenStormCloud
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:39 PM Response to Reply #39 |
72. We have been in this recession for two years and the crime rate is still going down. |
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Euromutt
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Sun Jan-23-11 07:37 AM Response to Reply #39 |
130. "This will" have been "changing" for over two years now |
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damntexdem
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Thu Jan-20-11 03:55 PM Response to Original message |
48. Exactly right. But there's another reason: Dem pols without spines. |
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Pancho Sanza
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:03 PM Response to Reply #48 |
55. Well then you should work harder to get Dem pols who will fight for YOUR position |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:25 PM Response to Reply #48 |
59. Fortunately, we have some rational voices with Rachel, Keith and Ed. |
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RamboLiberal
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Thu Jan-20-11 04:56 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. I love Rachel, Keith & Ed - but they went to irrational hysteria |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 05:00 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. What did they say that was so wrong, in your opinion? |
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OneTenthofOnePercent
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Thu Jan-20-11 07:32 PM Response to Reply #62 |
70. There are thread(s) about why what she said is wrong. |
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lawodevolution
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:37 PM Response to Reply #59 |
86. "And we need to diminish the influence of the NRA". Sorry, you don't decide if the power of the NRA |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:53 PM Response to Reply #59 |
94. And obviously, we have to fight harder against the false and the hate. |
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spin
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:21 PM Response to Reply #48 |
79. There are only 4 million NRA members ... |
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derby378
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Thu Jan-20-11 05:13 PM Response to Original message |
63. The polls cited by that BBC article are obsolete |
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Euromutt
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Sun Jan-23-11 09:49 AM Response to Reply #63 |
132. It's probably also because respondents have become inured to the term "assault weapons" |
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Katya Mullethov
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:02 PM Response to Original message |
77. They are changing somewhere nearly everday . Towards more freedom |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:22 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. Let's hope we get meaningful gun control change... |
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lawodevolution
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:41 PM Response to Reply #80 |
88. Yes "meaningful gun control change" |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:56 PM Response to Reply #80 |
96. Yes, hopefully we can move towards a more western European style of gun control. |
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X_Digger
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:57 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Talking to yourself, now? n/t |
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Pullo
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Sat Jan-22-11 03:27 PM Response to Reply #96 |
123. That ship is sailing in the opposite direction |
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Euromutt
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Sun Jan-23-11 09:27 AM Response to Reply #96 |
131. Do you understand what a "western European style of gun control" entails? |
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PavePusher
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Sun Jan-23-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #131 |
135. Damn! Why must you continue to introduce facts and citations... |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 09:11 PM Response to Reply #80 |
98. We can only hope that as we change our country on health care reform |
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Katya Mullethov
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Thu Jan-20-11 09:32 PM Response to Reply #98 |
102. Thought control ? |
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friendly_iconoclast
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Fri Jan-21-11 09:51 PM Response to Reply #102 |
109. It's a little less obvious than saying "false consciousness"- but the idea is the same |
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PavePusher
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Sat Jan-22-11 01:23 AM Response to Reply #98 |
119. "in control"? |
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timo
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:23 PM Response to Original message |
81. DONT FORGET |
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CTyankee
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Thu Jan-20-11 08:30 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Good! Let's get MORE! I wonder tho if it is enough to compensate for the loss of lives. |
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timo
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Thu Jan-20-11 10:54 PM Response to Reply #82 |
104. ??? |
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CTyankee
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Fri Jan-21-11 01:45 AM Response to Reply #104 |
105. hey, I'm as unhappy as you are about our ramped up policy in Afghanistan. |
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