A challenge: mass shooting in USA vs mass macheteing in nigeria

[lawodevolution]

Can we add up all the mass shootings in the USA in 2010 to come up with the same number of people dead in just march of 2010 in nigeria by mass knifings.

I can't find any lists of mass shootings in 2010, can yall help me? What about adding up all the known mass shootings in US history?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Over-500-killed-in-Nigeria-sectarian-clashes-Official-/articleshow/5657588.cms

""Gunshots were fired just to scare people out of their houses only to be macheted as they fled into the bush," he said."
"Witnesses described how victims were caught in animal traps and fishing nets as they tried to flee their attackers, who hacked them to death in what appeared to have been a well-organised attack."

There have been many other smaller mass killings in nigeria with machetes that were not noticed internationally.

Nigeria has a gun and ammo ban and it has one of the lowest civilian gun ownership rates on earth. The only nation with fewer guns per 100 that I could confirm was Haiti (0.6 guns per 100 people) which includes legal and illegal guns. 500 people in nigeria were not able to defend themselves because their government decided to take away their access to guns and ammo. Were these 500 lives expendable for the "greater good" of a disarmed society and is it really best that they died rather than risking that their attackers be shot?

[shadowrider]

1. The lack of responses from gun control advocates

seems to indicate this was perfectly fine with them, as long as guns weren't used.

Or so it seems.

[lawodevolution]

3. and if you are right, that they are more angry when someone is killed by a gun than another weapon

then it seems they don't really care about the rate of violence and the issue simply boils down to their hate of guns or better yet their hate for the members of the gun culture. Let's make some comparisons

White people in the south in the 50s becoming more angry when a woman is raped by a black man then when raped by a white man
Does this indicate that there was a certain amount of hate directed just at black men? or is rape by a black man worse than rape by a white man?

National Socialists being more angry by the hording of money by Jews than by Christians. Did the NAZIs really think hording money was evil or did they just hate jews.

can you think of more?

[Arctic Dave]

9. Gus were used.

Did you miss that in the post?

[lawodevolution]

12. yes, but they were not used to kill, they were used to scare for the most part

and the victims didn't have guns. Purhaps some of the potential victims had guns, but if they had survived they would not have been noticed.

[shadowrider]

13. To kill? Uh uh. Read again. They were used ONLY to scare people out

where they were hacked to death, or did you miss that?

[Arctic Dave]

22. So you agree, guns were used.

Just because they chose to save ammo doesn't mean guns were not part of the crime.

How many people were murdered in the holocaust by bullets? Were the ones murdered by other means not to be counted?

[shadowrider]

23. Yes, I agree, guns were used but NOT to kill, only to scare

You're gonna drive this to prove your point, it truly doesn't matter to you innocent people were hacked to death.

You anti's are really something else.

[lawodevolution]

32. Good pro gun point Arctic Dave, in Nigeria where guns are banned the bad guys were able to get guns

And used them in a crime while innocent villagers who did not have the ability to buy guns legally(because good honest people obey the law) could not defend themselves. Obviously this gun free society could use some more guns in the hands of good law abiding people. Am I right?

[damntexdem]

2. Both are horrible. But to be killed by a machete, one must be within its reach.

For example, no one is killed from across the street by machete -- but many have been so killed by guns.

And, of course, the U.S. is not plagued by concealed carry of machetes, nor by mass machete killings. It is so plagued by guns.

[lawodevolution]

4. so it is "plaqued by guns"? Then count up the number of deaths by mass shootings in 2010

I can only think of maybe 2 or 3 mass shootings in 2010.

Why would we not develop a "machete" problem if we were successful in banning guns?



"Both are horrible. But to be killed by a machete, one must be within its reach. "

this is called rationalization, as if a kill is acceptable if the killer was "within its reach."

There is no problem with getting within reach of a victim when it is very certain the victim does not have a gun.

[shadowrider]

5. Both are horrible, BUT

You gotta get up close with a machete. That MIGHT make sense IF the person they were going after was ALSO armed with a machete and was the same approximate age, physical build and ability.

That makes NO freaking sense. The victims, usually elderly women and men, could NOT fight back. They are just as dead, like lambs to the slaughter. Unless you think animals are off limits too.

Are you aware MS-13, here in the U.S., has as their favorite weapon, a machete? Did you know that? Huh? Huh? Huh? YOU run across a pissed off MS-13 on the street and it could happen to you. But that's ok cause he hacked you to pieces and had to get up close to do it.

In case you doubt:

MS-13 Member Found Guilty in Fairfax Machete Attack

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/17/AR2005081701856.html

In case you still doubt, one more:

Beware MS-13

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is warning of a street gang, primarily comprised of illegal aliens from Central America, that has spread rapidly across the United States. MS-13 is especially known for the high
level of violence committed during its crimes. Their signature weapon - the machete and other blunt instruments.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/544653/beware_ms13.html

[lawodevolution]

6. and when guns are banned I wonder if MS13 will become more bold with those machetes

[jeepnstein]

17. Put 'em out of business...

MS13 relies on drug sales for a huge part of it's business model. They'd be down at the Home Depot looking for work if it weren't for the huge profit margin on pot. Some of them are stone-killers but most of them aren't, yet.

[shadowrider]

29. Amazing this famous anti-gun advocate on this forum hasn't responded

NOT. Machetes don't fit the meme.

[Kennah]

7. Here is some data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_by_number_of_victims

[lawodevolution]

10. that list needs to be updated

edit: wait nevermind, these are mass violence events limited to one location.

[denverbill]

8. I agree that guns would have been a much more efficient way of exterminating them.

You have to wonder though just how differently this situation might have turned out if one of those villagers had owned a machete.

[lawodevolution]

11. the killers had guns. did you not read?

They didn't feel the need to use guns against a group of people who they knew could not have been armed because the government disarmed them already. Had the villagers had a machete, well the killers as I said had guns. The only way the villagers would have had a chance would be if they had guns also.

[denverbill]

25. "after machete wielding gangs massacred the people".

Sounds to me like a handful had guns and used them to scare people into traps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Lake_Massacre
The Spirit Lake Massacre (March 8–12, 1857) was an attack by a Wahpetuke band of Santee Sioux on scattered Iowa frontier settlements during a severe winter. Suffering a shortage of food, the renegade chief Inkpaduta (Scarlet Point) led 14 Sioux against the settlements near Okoboji and Spirit lakes in the northwestern territory of Iowa near the Minnesota border. The Sioux killed 35-40 settlers in their scattered holdings, took four young women captive, and headed north. The youngest captive, Abbie Gardner, was kept a few months before being ransomed in early summer. It was the last Native American attack on settlers in Iowa, but the events increased tensions between the Sioux and settlers in the Minnesota Territory.
---

Virtually every family at Spirit Lake owned a gun. Didn't help them.

[lawodevolution]

31. "Virtually every family at Spirit Lake owned a gun. Didn't help them.". Yes it did

Sure some died but at least they weren't massacred like what our soldiers were able to do to unarmed native american villages. In the attack in Nigeria, even if it saved one life it would have been worthwhile to have allowed villagers to own a gun (lovejoy) but in reality the death toll would probably have been zero because if those villagers owned guns I bet the cowards would not have attacked.

[shadowrider]

14. I disagree. A machete from 2 feet is FAR more efficient than a gun from 30 feet. n/t

[denverbill]

15. I'm not that great of a shot,

but I still bet I could mow down 10 times more fleeing villagers than you could hack to death with your machete.

[shadowrider]

16. With a single 10 round magazine? (AFTER the new restrictions take place)?

I doubt it.

[jeepnstein]

19. You'd be wrong.

Guns are not terribly well-suited to wholesale slaughter. Sure, they work great if you're shooting at people who are in formation and coming at you but not so hot for people running and ducking for cover. People are really pretty hard to kill if they don't stand still. You still have to take the good time and trouble to track each one down and kill them somehow. Just shooting wildly into the night won't get the kinds of results a really determined monster needs to see from his minions.

[Katya Mullethov]

27. Too noisy

One could ambush everybody that walked around a particular corner and give them a good whack , all day long . It is unlikely they would keep walking towards the sound of gunfire for long .

[lawodevolution]

30. Another problem is the lower level of lethality of a badly aimed gunshot compared to being chopped

Up by a machete where they can be sure to get the kill.

[safeinOhio]

18. Most states have laws against carrying

blades over 3 and half inches in length. Making them illegal to carry in this country. Even with a CCW. No wonder we have so few macheteing deaths. Another weapon restriction proven to work.:rofl:

[shadowrider]

20. And as you can see from post #5, bad guys will not obey the law

Otherwise they'd use a 2" knife or whatever is legal.

[jeepnstein]

21. Bet you can't find it in the ORC.

Even if I did bust them with a machete all they would have to say is they were doing gardening work. 2923.11 deals with concealing a deadly weapon but leaves it pretty open as to what that weapon can be. An MS13 with a machete on a tool belt would be within the law, technically speaking. Of course, if he was chasing a rival down the street with it we'd probably be able to do something about that.

I once arrested a guy for having a pocket full of nuts and bolts, concealed weapon. Seems he was throwing them at the Ku Klux Klan, and while I found his intentions noble it was a violation of the law.

[YllwFvr]

24. its also illegal to commit murder

which is obviously why it never happens

[safeinOhio]

26. Think how many ex-spouses would be

dead if it wasn't.

:crazy:

[YllwFvr]

28. they could have gotten PFAs

it makes the difference

[lawodevolution]

33. and their bf or gf