Doctor's office not the place for anti-gun politics (Ethical boundary privacy violation)

[shadowrider]

Do you own a gun? How many guns do you have? Do your children have access to guns in your home? Did you know that having a gun in your home triples your risk of becoming a homicide victim?

These are questions your doctor may ask you or your children as part of routine physical examinations or questionnaires. These are ethical boundary violations that violate privacy rights of patients and families.

Gun-related questions in doctors' offices are based on a medical political movement against gun owners. That movement is led by the American Academy of Pediatrics, although the AMA and other physician groups have launched similar efforts against gun owners.

Sometimes a doctor is right to ask a patient about guns in the home. A mentally disturbed patient who has expressed intent to do harm would be an example where such intervention is justified. But in most cases, questions about guns do not reflect a physician's concern about gun safety. Rather, they are intended to prejudice impressionable and trusting children and their parents into thinking that guns are somehow bad.

--snip--

Patients/families have been verbally abused and chastised by doctors and medical staffs for refusing to answer gun questions. Doctors have even denied care to children whose parents have refused to be submissive to these ethical boundary privacy violations.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/fl-doctors-guns-forum-20110131,0,6682478.story

I've never been asked, but would refuse if asked. It's none of their business.

[notesdev]

1. I'd get a different doctor if asked that question

a) it's none of his damn business; and
b) a doctor who uses billable time to pursue political goals is engaged in malpractice.

[RSillsbee]

17. I agree w/ A

As for b most Dr.s bill by the visit not the time

[arcane1]

2. A writer for the Claremont Institute...

writing an opinion piece with nothing in it to back up his claims.

While it's certainly possible that doctors are out there doing this, nothing in this editorial demonstrated that they actually are.

[arcane1]

3. From their site:

Founded in 1979, the Claremont Institute publishes the Claremont Review of Books, sponsors Publius and Lincoln Fellowships for rising young conservative leaders, and administers a variety of public policy programs, including Americans for Victory Over Terrorism, our Ballistic Missile Defense Project, the Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence, the Center for Local Government, and the Salvatori Center for the American Constitution. Our staff regularly provides commentary on current events for national print and broadcast media. Our family of websites includes our homepage, www.claremont.org, our Victory Over Terrorism site, www.avot.org, and our missile defense site, www.missilethreat.com. The Claremont Institute's work is national in scope, but gives special emphasis to the problems of our country's most populous state, California, where the Institute is based.

http://www.claremont.org/about/

[HuckleB]

6. That's quite interesting.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DonP]

18. They are...

My daughter took one of the grandkids (3 months) in for his check up last summer and was asked; "Is he ever exposed to a household with guns? Are they secured so he can't get at them? Do you know that people with guns in their home are 30 times for likely to be injured by them? and so on.

It's not an isolated incident either, most people just ignore the questions. A few make a discussion out of the questions and ask for the source and offer alternative sources to look up.

I asked her what she told the doctor. She said; "It's none of his business so I lied to him and said no."

She already knows that the Kellerman study is a steaming pile 'o crap as far as honesty goes. Never peer reviewed and redacted at least three times to correct his obvious skewed sampling errors. Science my ass.

[HuckleB]

34. Got made up anecdote?

Oh brother.

:eyes;

[DonP]

39. Yeah, everyone here ...

... that cited it happening to them or a family member made it up to try and fool you. I'm so concerned with your opinion of me that I can't even recall which parts I made up. My daughter, I have 3 of them, the grandchild, 6 so far, or maybe the pedidatrician was imaginary.

Our position as gun owners is so weak that we all have to keep making shit up to feel good about ourselves. No wait, that's the gun control people that make shit up all the time. I'm sorry for the confusion.

What a maroon.

[rl6214]

21. They are

I've had it done to me when my son was hospitalized last year.

[SoCalNative]

4. Personally

I hope all doctors start asking those questions.

Anyone who has ever taken certain types of medication should never be allowed to own a firearm.

[Hangingon]

15. So does the nurse pick up your guns?

I don't believe you should loose a fundamental right without due process. What other things would have us loose because of meds we are prescribed? I guess this means an hoplophobe MD could prescribe a med that would take away our arms.

[RSillsbee]

20. I was a flaming alcoholic

30 years ago? Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to own a gun now?

[rl6214]

23. And what type

of medication are those.

[PavePusher]

38. Which medications would those be....

and why would anyone take them if they mess you up that badly?

[HuckleB]

5. This editorial piece is one grab bag of BS assumptions.

The list of four questions at the top is telling: Only the last question is truly, possibly objectionable. Yet, I am willing to bet that few to no docs would ask that question. I'm willing to bet that such a question is not even taught in terms of public safety. The other questions are mere public safety matters, and certainly not a big deal. They seem like they would be a reasonable part of an MD's job, if that MD actually had the time to ask such questions.

[CreekDog]

7. If a doctor encouraged me to own a gun for safety

I might reconsider my choice of physician.

Depending upon how well I felt they did their job otherwise.

[hlthe2b]

8. Does anyone really believe the average Doc would have time....

after discussing your diet and exercise habits, weight, BP, alcohol and drug use, and sexual activity (if you are at risk for STD) and maybe a question or two to screen for depression, (if they were really on the ball), to ask these questions about guns? REALLY? If they had someone who was clearly showing signs of severe depression, maybe. That is a validated question for use in determining likelihood and seriousness of suicide threat.

Honestly.... :eyes:

[shadowrider]

9. A move is underway to make it illegal

http://www.news-press.com/article/20110116/NEWS01/110115043/1002/Florida-bill-would-bar-doctors-from-gun-questions

TALLAHASSEE — A state lawmaker has filed a bill that would ban doctors from asking their patients if they have a gun in the home.

Rep. Jason Brodeur, a Sanford Republican, said he has heard about a number of cases in which doctors asked about guns. He thinks the topic should be off-limits.

[hlthe2b]

11. Yet... everyone screams when health providers don't intervene

to prevent/report someone with mental impairment from accessing a gun. IDIOTS. This is a nuclear solution without a problem having been established.

[Atypical Liberal]

43. If the person was mentally impaired.

If a person is mentally impaired enough to be dangerous, then they should be involuntarily committed to a mental institution whether or not they own firearms.

[HuckleB]

12. Then why should docs be allowed to ask about alcohol consumption, sexual activity, etc...?

What a ridiculous bill.

[hlthe2b]

30. Second amendment folks might be unaware of that pesky 1st Amendment

A pediatrician asking about guns in a child's household and reminding about locks/safes is doing his/her job towards child safety.

[rl6214]

24. These questions are being asked by pediatricians

not your doctor when you go in for a checkup.

[hlthe2b]

29. Yes... it is part of the routine recommendations for pediatricians

in terms of child SAFETY.... The paranoia here just burns. :eyes:

[RSillsbee]

25. Dr.s do what they want.

I worked for an Orthopedist who routinely sat in his office doing dictation w/ all of his exam rooms and the waiting room full. We were generally 45 minutes behind by lunch

I worked for another Dr. (very pro gun democrat BTW) who would routinely sit in the exam room talking guns or dogs w/ his pt.s for an hour at a time and then bitch at his staff for the rest of the day because he was behind.

He once pulled a gun out that he was trying to sell in front of a pt. I was doing a procedure on, she went through the roof. Good thing I wasn't drawing blood

[hlthe2b]

28. Given they are paid for 15 minutes of consultation time...

your experience is quite the exception, not the rule.

[RSillsbee]

31. Yeah , I only work in the field

I don't know what I'm talking about.

I did work for one GP though who had been a medical missionary in Africa before coming to work for this particular practice. He was pretty good at getting them in and out but if an unusual or interesting case came in every thing stopped and we became a teaching hospital.

[hlthe2b]

32. As do I...

And having worked on reimbursement issues for family practitioners in my state, I am in a position to know. What you describe is overwhelmingly uncommon.

[RSillsbee]

42. After my last post

it occurred to me that I have only worked for a small portion of Physicians in Colorado Springs. So I'll say that my experience has been the norm for me and w/draw the rest of the post

[enough]

10. Our family doctor asked me about guns in the house during a very fraught time when one of my

young-adult children was deeply depressed and possibly suicidal. I was shocked by the question, but she was persistent on the issue, and it was a water-shed moment for me in cutting though my denial about the seriousness of the situation.

I feel the doctor was absolutely right to bring up the issue and to press me on it. She was not anti-gun, she was making sure I understood the importance of total security around the guns in the house, and the question of whether our arrangements were truly adequate.

This doctor was doing her job in good faith and with courage.

[HuckleB]

13. Exactly!

[pipoman]

16. I was asked by my son's peditrician

in 1993. It was a question on a questionnaire for new patients. This was prior to public ccw, I had one of the rare may issue permits. I answered, "I am licensed and am carrying a pistol right now". His eyes got big (again, it was very uncommon at the time for non-leos to have a permit), and he said, "Well then, I guess that is a yes..", then went on with the questionnaire.

[rl6214]

19. Last year my 15 yo son was hospitalized

and diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. When admitted we were asked a number of questions including if there were firearms in the home. I told them it was an inappropriate invasion of my privacy and none of their business. She propably just check the yes box.

[Glassunion]

22. I guess it would depend on the situation.

I would not want my Dr to be afraid of asking the question, if my Dr felt it was prudent. But, I have a good relationship with my Dr.

That said...
If I'm going in for an ear infection and he is prescribing me antibiotics, the question should not come up.

If I'm going in for blood pressure medication that has some known side effects that may cause depression or suicidal thoughts, I would appreciate the question. But then again... What about all of the other ways to kill myself in my house? Knives, pills, tub, rope, step into traffic, run my car in the garage, have an erection lasting longer than four hours, killer hamster, jump off the roof, chemicals, head in the oven, divide by zero... You know... All the stuff that is already in the house.

[PavePusher]

40. Top answer of the day! ROFL! n/t

[shadowrider]

41. Then again, you or a family member might turn one of these loose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

[RSillsbee]

26. I don't think it should be an illegal question

I'm a big boy I know how to say "None of your business'

[oneshooter]

27. I believe that this started with the CDC requesting doctors to ask.

Not only does my family Doc not ask, I got him and his wife to get a Texas CHL. They also started shooting in pistol competition! Then he shoot my Sharps at a beginning shooter match( BPCR) and bought one for himself, along with the reloading gear!

I got a cool doctor.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[goddess40]

33. Doctors have to clean up the mess guns make. nt

[spin]

35. I know several doctors who own firearms and at least one carries ...

on a regular basis.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. They also have to clean up the mess that happens if you are defenssless...

...when violent crime selects you. Sometimes bad things happen to even the best of people.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. My doctor knows I carry concealed. Not a problem with him.

However, he does request that I not be armed in his office, armed I respect that. I don't want to have to handle the gun if I have to take some clothes off for an exam, anyway. So I leave them in the car.

[Union Scribe]

44. My doctor might ask that, but it'd just be so he could tell me about his.

I love that guy.

[Tesha]

45. Oh, for crying out loud...

Getting all bent out of shape because a doctor is asking a question?
Good grief! If you don't like the question, don't answer!

As a woman, I get all the usual questions - including some around physical abuse and drinking.
I don't have a problem with either but fully understand that the doctor has the right to ask - and the responsibility.


We hear about parents who store their weapons on the gift and candy shelf in the closet... shouldn't that doctor have mentioned the danger?

And aren't you secure enough in your ability to be responsible that you can't just either answer or not?

[Euromutt]

46. I do think it reflects VERY badly on the American Academy of Pediatrics that...

...they are still parroting Kellermann's bullshit assertion that "a gun in the home is forty-three times more likely to be used to kill a friend or family member than a burglar or other criminal" (as on this page http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/all-around/Pages/Handguns-in-the-Home.aspx), or similar claims about "having a gun in your home tripl<ing> your risk of becoming a homicide victim" because it displays either an inability to recognize junk science for what it is, or a willingness to ignore the shoddiness of the science in order to further an agenda. The former is indicative of incompetence, the latter of dishonesty. Neither is desirable in a medical professional.