So according to US vs. Miller

[1a2b3c]

I should be able to own an M16 and Kalifornias ban on the SKS and the "assault weapons" ban are all unconstitutional since they all have a place in the military and militia....correct?

[funkyflathead]

1. No

Because when Miller was written the US didn't use automatics or M-16s.

Now if the US Govt banned the M1911 pistol or the Springfield bolt gun they would be in deep crap with the Miller decision.

[1a2b3c]

2. They didnt use them at the time

But....they use the M16 now. And they ruled that the sawed off shotgun was not covered under the 2nd amendment because it was not a weapon used by the military or militia. Now if they make a new gun that is used by the militia wouldnt that mean that i could own it?

[funkyflathead]

3. The courts would say.......

that only guns used by the "militia" at the time (Natl Guard, ect) would be covered. It was handed down in 1939 right?

[FeebMaster]

5. Bummer

Looks like we're limited to Browning Automatic Rifles, Thompson submachine guns, Browning Machine guns in .30 and .50, bazookas, various mortars, and rifle launched grenades, among others.

[1a2b3c]

6. So we should be able to carry the M16

Like the national guard?

[FeebMaster]

7. He's saying we should be limited

to militia weapons of 1939.

[MrSandman]

4. IIRC, Miller held that the NFA provisions were acceptable...

due to the absence of judicial notice that the shotgun was militarily useful. The Court stopped short of saying ownership of any militarily useful arms is protected. I believe that SCOTUS will need to revisit the Miller decision to hold the affirmative.

Also, Miller addressed NFA, not state law. Miller did not apply the 2nd A to laws of the state's. 14th Amendment issue? Or does "shall not be infringed" apply to states?

[funkyflathead]

8. States can ban what they want to

The Feds can't or at least that is how it is supposed to be.

[MrSandman]

9. Unless 14th Amendment protections apply...

[Man_in_the_Moon]

10. Actually

the SCOTUS in Miller held that since no one presented an argument before it supporting the lower court's dismissal of the case on Second Amendment grounds, it would have to remand the case to be heard by the lower court. It never was reheard. Miller settled nothing whatsoever in regards to the NFA, or any other statute.

[FeebMaster]

11. As I understand it,

After the supreme court case, Layton plead guilty and got 5 years probation. Miller was dead, of course, so nothing else happened with him.

[DavidMS]

12. Please correct me if I am wrong...

I thought that Miller disapeared while on probation and was suspected to have disapeared into the Ozarks.

[FeebMaster]

13. Well I'm sure the link police

will attack me for this one.

According to this page

http://www.rkba.org/research/miller/Miller.html

<snip>
Alas, Jack Miller's end was an unhappy one. The Southwest American reported on April 6, 1939, that Miller's body had been found in the "nearly dry" bed of Little Spencer creek, nine miles southwest of Chelesa, Oklahoma. He had been shot four times with a .38. Miller's ".45 calibre pistol," from which he had fired three shots in his defense, was found near his body. He was forty years old.
<snip>

I guess if you could find a copy of the April 6, 1939, Southwest American you could confirm it. In any case, he wasn't there when the supreme court heard the case.


Here's the same document at another link:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/miller_compilation.html