Egypt proved there is no need for a 2nd amendment

[Soral]

I am sure this will infuriate a LOT of people.(maybe not here) But when you look at the way things went down, it proves in today's modern world, "second amendment remedies" are not needed to take down a tyrannical government.

The 2nd amendment reads:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

In the last 18 days, we saw that a well regulated militia is NOT necessary to secure a free state. It has proved the reasoning behind the second amendment to not be needed, because we live in a different world now.

What we have seen happen is that information, not guns, is the ultimate weapon against an unfair or tyrannical government, and non democratic government's are fully aware of this. In Iran, you do not hear about a crackdown on weapons, you hear about a crackdown on the spread of information and communication.

The internet has become the most powerful tool in the world, capable of anything.

With the ability to instantly spread information to everyone in the entire world, guns and force are powerless.

If we ever faced a situation anything like what we just saw happen in Egypt, we could accomplish the same thing, without a single shot being fired.

http://connecticutwits.blogspot.com/2011/02/egypt-proved-there-is-no-need-for-2nd.html

[DCBob]

1. Thank goodness the protestors did not have guns.. who knows what could have happened..

in the heat of the moment.

[flamin lib]

72. Many did, guns aren't banned in Egypt. However, had guns been

the military would have been forced to restore order and it would have been all over like Iran after the elections. The protesters won precisely because they didn't use guns.

Tunisia and Egypt overthrew the government with the permission of the military. I know it's a wet dream gun huggers have; facing down the Army or the Marines or having them join the popular revolt. Unlike many countries like Egypt in which the military is a de-facto co-equal branch of government, the U.S has a military that really is controlled by the civilian elected government.

[Brilliantrocket]

2. How'd Tiananmen square work out for them Chinese?

[Soral]

7. They didn't have the internet... which was my whole point

[former9thward]

32. The Chinese have the internet now. What is stopping them?

[derby378]

48. For one thing, government censorship of the Internet...

...for another thing, China has outlawed all private ownership of firearms. Mere possession of a single-shot hunting rifle will get you 7 years in a Chinese prison, IIRC.

[former9thward]

51. I certainly agree with that.

And that's what my point was in replying to the poster who thinks that the internet will solve everything. Also the Egyptian government shut down the internet when the protests started. It is not a magic answer.

[SugarShack]

22. How would it have worked out for us? past experience where i am, police arrested war protesters

a group of 100 in St. Pete Fla....after they slashed tents of the homeless.

Meanest city #2, St. Petersburg FL - National Homelessness ... Oct 17, 2009 ... #2 on the list of meanest cities is St. Petersburg, FL. ... The tent city has been moved twice since the original slashing of the tents. ...
www.examiner.com/homelessness-in.../meanest-city-2-st-petersburg-fl - Cached
St. Petersburg Police cutting up homeless tents

2 min - Jan 19, 2007 - Uploaded by stpete4peace
Police officers with box cutters showed up where St. Pete's tent city residents had moved and set up. The cops slashed their tents to the ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPdZmPB36U - Related videos
************
6 arrested during BayWalk protest (St Petersburg, FL) - Democratic ... Aug 7, 2005 ... 6 arrested during BayWalk protest (St Petersburg, FL) ... ST. PETERSBURG - Despite the arrests of six anti-war protesters outside BayWalk, ...
www.democraticunderground.com › Discuss - Cached

So then the city of St. Pete (city council) SOLD THE SIDEWALK to the mall !!! So shop owners own the sidewalk ...and people no longer have a right to it...BayWalk is the heart of Downtown St. Pete for people. No free speech, and no public right of way. Nice, eh?

I saw nothing like this in Eygpt. I read here that they want our freedoms we take for granted. Where have you been? Get off your computer and hit the streets and see what happens. We have lost our freedoms under the Patriot Act. It's been extended now under this president. All I hear is crickets.

[saras]

29. So where's the guns?

I'll believe that guns contribute to our freedom when I read one of these stories where the protesters, using firearms, compel the police to back down, and the police STAY backed down.

Until then...

[pipoman]

3. Perhaps with a second amendment Egypt wouldn't have had a dictatorship in the first place..

[Poboy]

9. Indeed. I am UNreccing this because its simplistic and you cannot

transfer what happened in Egypt to every other situation. Its goofy.

[CTyankee]

4. I'm reccing this because it makes perfect sense.

The people getting their hands on information they need to organize and revolt, and a military made up of some of those very people, is what caused the peaceful Egyptian revolution.

I hope and pray that this thing plays out to the benefit of the Egyptian people...

[KansasVoter]

5. +1 but the gunnies will throw a hissy fit. And alert this post!

[Scruffy1]

54. Guns are a religion sologic doesn't apply

Logic doesn't apply to them at all. It's just a fetish.

[KansasVoter]

55. They act tough with the guns but most are scared little cowards.

[kentuck]

6. Fait accompli?

OR just the first step in a bloody mess to follow?

[cali]

8. uh, no it didn't. you may believe it provided evidence that there's no

need, but it certainly didn't prove anything of the sort.

[Old Codger]

23. Absolutely

Wait and watch, I would bet that the next ones that start will not go as peacefully as Egypt did, they arrested 400 or so in Algeria..

[ClassWarrior]

26. Compelling rebuttal.

You forgot to add, "Because I said so!!"

:eyes:

NGU.

[cali]

40. oh ok. not that the OP or YOU deserve it, but here you go:

Iran proves the need for the 2nd Amendment. See how dumb that is. That's how fucking lame the OP is.

Logic. It's a nifty thing. The OP is lacking it. duh.

[Euromutt]

69. Iran *is* pretty good counter-example, as is Burma

Both countries where we've seen major protests in the past couple of years, which (unfortunately) came to nothing. And certainly, internet access in Iran is not significantly more rare than it is in Egypt, and even in Burma, somebody was getting footage out.

And let's not discount the fact that the sheer mass of the protests in Egypt strongly suggested that, if the confrontation had become violent, the people could still have overwhelmed government forces by sheer weight of numbers, and that's something the various people in and close to power must have been considering. The threat of violence, even if it's implicit, can be as effective as actual violence.

[Upton]

10. Yeah okay..

if something ever comes down, you just wave the white flag and flash the peace sign. I'm sure that will make everything just peachy.:eyes:

[xchrom]

11. It shows we have interpreted the 2a wrong. Nt

[ClassWarrior]

12. "Guns and force are powerless." Not to mention immoral killing machines.

K&R

NGU.

[GodlessBiker]

13. The Internet certainly was key, as was a military which largely supported the demonstrators.

[DCofVA]

14. Thank goodness there were so few guns there.

I hate to think of the carnage there would have been otherwise.

[fascisthunter]

15. true....

[Better Believe It]

16. So the fight in Egypt for democractic rights and economic justice has been won and is over?

When did that happen?

A bit premature.

"Egypt proved there is no need for a 2nd amendment"

To accomplish what?

Have the major demands of the revolution been won?

No they have not.

Not yet.

And how will the demands for democratic rights and economic justice be won?

You don't know.

Nor do I.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Did you post on the wrong thread?

Nobody said anything like that here.

NGU.

[Better Believe It]

24. The post suggested that the military regime has been overthrown and this proves that ....

passive resistance and non-violence is the only winning strategy in revolutions and that the democratic right of the people to bear arms is irrelevant and not necessary. I think that's a tactical issue. The mass democracy movement in Egypt has used the right tactics, including both robust self-defense when they prevented the right-wing from violently taking Liberation Square and a non-confrontational approach toward the rank and file soldiers.

The military has run Egypt for over half a century.

It remains to be seen if the military brass will give up their political control peacefully and if the soldier draftees and lower level officers will join the people in resisting any continuation of a military dictatorship with different political leadership faces.

History remains to be written in this ongoing struggle for democratic rights and economic justice.

And history might very well prove once again that the right of the people to bear arms is in some cases the key to overthrowing dictatorships or preventing the establishment of dictatorships.

This was just round one in Egypt, a round that was clearly won by the people.

Now if I misunderstood the posters point I'm sure they'll correct me.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Ahhh. "Suggests." A great word for trying to change the subject of a valid argument.

NGU.

[Better Believe It]

30. If only cops, troops and other government forces had guns how would that work out in the future ...

if we were confronted with an attempt to establish a military or other form of dictatorship?

[ClassWarrior]

35. See, the OP is correct.

Q.E.D.

:rofl:

NGU.

[Lil Missy]

18. I noticed that too. If that happened in US all the nutbags would be shootin'

[glinda]

19. It could not have happened in Egypt if there was the 2nd Amendment.

That is why it would be difficult and a bloody battle if people would rise up here.

[Dash87]

20. The camera is the new gun.

Good thing our Founding Fathers actually got that one right. Righter than they ever would have known at the time.

The 1st amendment is much more explosive and "dangerous" to those who want to harm us than any weapon (plus, guns are awful).

[L0oniX]

21. Well it's nice that you have an anti gun defense agenda to keep you busy.

[Soral]

31. I didn't say anything about disarming or anti gun, all I said was

We don't need guns to have a successful revolution.

[Dappleganger]

33. How do you define "success"?

The guys with the guns are in charge.

[rrneck]

25. Don't look now but

guys with guns are running the country.

I think your assessment is premature.

[safeinOhio]

36. Not really, it is those with money

controlling the media that run this country. We need people with the same convictions and one track minds to take up the cause of the 1st Amendment as those that find the 2nd the most important.

The most right-wing intolerant groups in this country, including the white power militias, KKK and the teabag leadership are some of the most die hard 2nd supporters. They know that any armed rebellion would be met with a draconian 1st Amendment killing take over of all power by the oligarchy. They fear a MLK, Gandhi rebellion that can't be beaten with arms. They hated and now fear anything like the civil rights, nonviolent success of the 60s. They know they lost because it was nonviolent. It is very hard to condemn a popular nonviolent movement morally. On the other hand, it is very easy to react to violence with violence. Oligarchy's love violence, that is why the dictator sent in his plain cloth police to incite violence in Egypt.

[rrneck]

41. I was talking about Egypt.

[hughee99]

27. I hope you stretched first before jumping to that conclusion.

It was a long leap.

[ZombieHorde]

34. What is a free state? Does Egypt now have a free state?

Weren't the people who wrote those words slave masters?

[canetoad]

37. Itchy trigger fingers

on the unrec button.

[Soral]

39. guess so.... time will tell, and I feel confident

that in 1 month... 6 months... and 1 year from now I could repost this and it would still be true.

[JVS]

38. It never hurts to have more violent weapons than necessary.

[quaker bill]

42. Let's be honest

If there were guns involved, Mubarak and the Army would have re-established law and order in the streets, with extreme prejudice. This alone would then have justified the immediate violent repression of any similar movements in adjacent states throughout the ME.

It had to happen the way it did and not having weapons involved was critical to success in this case.

[Poboy]

43. And who is being deceitful?

What you type is very true, I agree. What the OP states about the 2nd amendment though is just stupid.

[naaman fletcher]

44. Huh?

The military is in charge and there is no democracy.

[LAGC]

45. And last time I checked, the military had all the guns. (n/t)

[madinmaryland]

46. K&R! Also, don't forget that there were zero America lives lost or injured and there

was not $1 trillion spent trying to force democracy on Egypt.

[slackmaster]

47. Feel free to launch an effort to repeal the Second Amendment if you wish

Until that happens, it's the law of the land.

[jpak]

56. and if it is repealed "law abiding" gun owners will give up their illegal firearms?

:D

[Katya Mullethov]

64. Some will , for a while .

The remainder going " Full Hupp" .

[slackmaster]

66. By definition we would

Although there would certainly be a rash of tragic boating accidents, and a spike in sales of ABS pipe and post-hole diggers.

HTH

[dkf]

49. If you are rioting in a Democracy, doesn't that mean you are in the minority?

[beyurslf]

50. They proved that having level headed leaders in the military is important.

Had the military acted with violence, this peaceful revolution would not be.

[Odin2005]

52. *FACEPLAM*

[here_is_to_hope]

53. "The internet has become the most powerful tool in the world, capable of anything."

Can it fix my porch then?
No?

Well, I guess a hammer beats it out of that title.

[pintobean]

57. UBTL

[jpak]

58. kick

:popcorn:

[PavePusher]

59. One data point (and an unfinished one at that) can now be extrapolated into a trend?

Wow, science and math teachers everywhere will want to know your secret... :silly:

[east texas lib]

60. Egypt hasn't proved anything yet, as Mubarak's military apparatus still retains power...

As far as Iran goes, they've hung 46 people in the last 20 days as of 1/9/11. Group hangings are preferred of course. How did the internet help them? Your post is naive and idealistic.


"With the ability to instantly spread information to everyone in the entire world, guns and force are powerless." Yeah. Tell that to the dead.
http://www.freedomessenger.com/?p=21145

[Francis Marion]

61. Sample size: n=1

Simply because no order was given to mow down the Egyptian people, therefore, the US derives no benefit from Amendment 2?

The Egyptian people in that square were not surrounded by florists, yoga instructors, or practitioners of non-violence: they were surrounded by soldiers, tanks, and weapons.

Recall a different square- Tiananmen- when an assembly of unarmed people were mowed down by the thousands by their government's guns and tanks. History is replete with many other test cases where the people's access to guns- or lack thereof- significantly impacted events. Study for yourself and draw conclusions from the testimony of many witnesses.

Nonviolence is noble, powerful, risky, and is ONE of many choices people should certainly be free to make. Just like the extraordinarly brave Chinese man we saw blocking a tank column. But that gesture, however compelling, afforded no protection whatsoever to the defenseless people slaughtered at will by their authoritarian masters.

Self defense belongs in the set of choices, too, right alongside every other human right.

[lawodevolution]

62. Egypt: 300 dead in 3 weeks. Over same time period in Yemen, zero dead in protests

Yemen has a heavily armed civilian population. You all are still trying to say the protests in Egypt were non violent when the rate of death during the protests in Cairo alone were higher than the average rate of death in the afganistan war in 2010.

[spin]

63. Perhaps the reason we never had a government like the dictatorships of Egypt ...

is because we have a Second Amendment.

Are you aware that we have the longest lasting written constitution in the world?

[mediator]

65. The LACK of a '2nd Amendment' led to 30+ years of oppressive dictatorship.

It is obvious.

[RSillsbee]

67. So instead of a dictator Egypt has a military government

Who says they will allow free elections..... sooner or later.

Let's see how this plays out

[TPaine7]

68. The OP and those cheering it illustrate the need for American educational reform. n/t

[RSillsbee]

70. At last report the Egyptian Army has

Suspended the constitution and dissolved the imperial senate , I mean Parliament. The last remnants of the old republic ( I mean regime)have been swept away

[mediator]

71. Yes, but except for that, everything is peachy

keen