Hunting getting safer for hunters

[Superfly]

Link

<snip>

The generations-old tradition of hunting is getting safer in many areas, in part because of aggressive safety programs by government as well as Internet courses and safety tips distributed by retailers.

In New York this week, for example, officials announced a record low for injuries. In 2003, 32 injuries and two fatalities were reported among the 700,000 hunters who took to the field. That beats the old safety record of 43 injuries in 2000, when the state averaged five fatalities a year.

<snip>

But the reductions in accidents also comes as fewer hunters take to the field. In New York, the ranks of hunters declined by 9 percent in the last decade, according to state figures.

<snip>

Baron said online courses like the one offered by the foundation as well as more retailers providing safety brochures to gun buyers are raising awareness for new hunters and encouraging older, responsible hunters to share safety lessons.

"Hunting is an American tradition and a way of life," Baron said. "The vast majority of hunters teach their children their values."

<snip>

[RoeBear]

1. This must be quite a letdown...

...for all the anti-gun loons who assume all hunters are Republicans.

[Superfly]

2. When something dislodges all of your

preconceived notions, just ignore it!

That's the Modus operandi of the Anti-RKBA crowd.

[Paladin]

11. All Hunters Republican? No Way!

I'm sure the figure is closer to 95% or so.

[RoeBear]

12. Why so much space ...

...for such a small thought?

[Paladin]

13. Beats Hell Out Of Me

I don't recall doing anything out of the ordinary that would generate the extra white space.

And any notion that a post somehow gains validity with added length is disproven on a day-by-day, hour-by-hour basis here in the Gun Dungeon. For instance: as I recall, your recent, quite extraordinary claim that the 3rd Amendment is the strongest part of the Bill of Rights was considerably longer than this one-line contribution of mine.....

[MrBenchley]

14. I still yet to see

any evidence that most (or in fact ALL) hunters aren't Republicans....there's not a frigging word in the link about political affiliation.

Love to see what supports that claim "1. This must be quite a letdown...
...for all the anti-gun loons who assume all hunters are Republicans."

I guess it's "New York has Jews, who must be Democrats because they're liberal....."

[Paladin]

15. I've Said It Before......

....but I don't mind saying it again: I can't think of a pursuit that's fallen so far and so fast in the popular perception in this country as hunting and other shooting sports. I'm sure our RKBA brethern (and sistern) will have no trouble attributing this to the Evil Liberal Media and Government Schools, but the fact is, hunting and related shooting sports' wounds are largely self-inflicted. The cadre of gun rights folks who have set up shop here in the Gun Dungeon are symptomatic of the problem: nothing but pistols, assault weapons (complete with photos), and "Can I Get Away With Shooting This Bad Guy, PleasePleasePlease", with occasional time-outs to trash Democratic Party figures who aren't perceived as being properly worshipful of the NRA's views on the Second Amendment. Nary a mention of traditional sporting guns---except for Sarah Brady's giving a deer rifle to her son a while back, and the unsuccessful efforts to portray it as an illegal transaction.

Something else I've mentioned from time to time: I used to be an avid hunter and gun enthusiast. I left it all pretty much behind me, largely because I didn't like some of the company I had to keep. When I started out, hunting and guns weren't overwhelmingly right wing enthusiasms; they are now, and it's a damned shame.

[MrBenchley]

16. You're exactly right

Look at the NRA's enemies list....just about every group of decent people in America is on it...

You will notice whenever the RKBA crowd has a source, it's from some right wing cesspool like Newsmax or Opinion Journal.

And like so many things right wing, the closer one looks at "gun rights", the more dishonest and ugly it becomes.

[FeebMaster]

17. Well gee Paladin,

why don't you tell us what's wrong with pistols and assault weapons? While you're at it, maybe you could define "traditional sporting guns" for us. Here I was thinking that handguns were a traditional sporting gun. Silly me.

[Paladin]

18. Since You Asked......

....the problem with the unceasing emphasis on pistols and assault weapons is that it represents a disturbing trend in shooting sports: militarized, radicalized, hypermacho, with a whole bunch of violent wishful thinking bubbling right under the surface.

"Traditional sporting guns" are just that: guns designed to shoot something besides human beings, guns that don't look like they just emerged from a Rambo/Terminator wet dream. God forbid we should ever have a thread about Winchester Model 70's or Browning over-and-under shotguns here in the Dungeon; might get in the way of the assault rifle picture show.

No, as a matter of fact, handguns are not traditional sporting guns. They are never portrayed as such in this forum.

[RoeBear]

19. I get it!

The availablity of handguns and assault weapons causes people to go 'over the edge'. Without them being available the bubbling would never get to the danger point.

[FeebMaster]

20. Elmer Keith is rolling over in his grave.

Assault rifles get a lot of attention simply because the AWB is up pretty soon and the efforts of most gun grabbing organizations, not to mention every presidential candidate, seem to be focused on renewing and expanding it.

Maybe once the gun grabbers get around to trying to ban over-under shotguns they'll get a few threads down here.

They'll have to get in line though, high powered sniper rifles like the Winchester Model 70 are next. I'm sure once some bills come before congress to ban sniper rifles, you'll see plenty of threads down here comparing the various Remington model 700 Hunting rifles with the various Remington model 700 sniper rifles. No doubt there will also be pictures posted of the Winchester Model 70.

There will be all sorts of talk about how this rifle is functionally the same as that one. And how synthetic stocks make rifles more deadly. And pantloads. And how no one needs a rifle that powerful. And a five round magazine is far more deadly than a three round magazine. And what does a person need a 12x scope for other than killing people at long range. And pantloads. And how a sniper rifle can put 5 rounds through the same hole at 100 yards. And how no one wants a hunting rifle that accurate. Maybe if the conversation gets really heated people will talk about shooting prairie dogs at 1000 yards. Did I mention pantloads?

I don't know about all of you, but I for one can't wait.

[MrBenchley]

21. So you don't know anything about Trent Lott

but Elmer Keith you do.....

Hmmmmmmmmm..........

[FeebMaster]

22. I'm terribly sorry

that my knowledge of Trent Lott doesn't live up to your expectations. What does one have to do with the other? Was Keith Lott's father or uncle or something? Distant cousin?

I know a bit about Ed McGivern and Ad and Plinky Topperwein too. Did they perchance have anything to do with Trent Lott?

[MrBenchley]

29. Gee, I'm just wondering

how somebody trying to participate in a forum dedicated to politics could be so proud of not knowing anything about the subject....

[RoeBear]

32. And if he knew alot about Trent Lott some other...

...anti-gun loon would have made the comment that he knew too much about him.

[MrBenchley]

33. But in fact he knows nothing about Trent Lott

or what he's been up to, other than that he wants to pretend the corrupt racist piece of shit isn't pro-gun.

[FeebMaster]

36. Actually,

on your advice I've done a bit of reading on Trent Lott. You're quite right, he's up to all sorts of unpleasantness. Strangely enough though, none of it involves repealing any of the federal firearms laws. You'd think, what with the pro-gun republicans in control of Congress and the Presidency, they'd advance their pro-gun agenda.

[CO Liberal]

23. Does "Elmer Keith" Have Anything to Do With "Elmer Fudd"????

:-)

[FeebMaster]

24. no. (nt)

...

[MrBenchley]

30. Be vewy vewy quiet....heheheheheheheheh

[Paladin]

26. Just Because One Old Man In A Western State......

....claimed to have knocked off a deer with a pistol at 600 yards, doesn't make pistols sporting weapons.

Yeah, I know all about Elmer Keith. I told you I used to be into hunting and shooting.

The term "sniper rifle" as applied to a Model 70 is yours, not mine. What's the matter? Gotta call it a sniper rifle to make it at all attractive to you?

Sounds like all these dire predictions you're making are nothing more than wishful thinking. You guys don't seem to function at full capacity unless you have a healthy dose of paranoid persecution complex to help you along. Better you than me.....

[FeebMaster]

27. I'm simply pointing out that

basically any hunting rifle can be called a sniper rifle. If you disagree, then by all means, explain the difference between a hunting rifle and a sniper rifle.

You call them dire predictions. I call it just being realistic.

[Paladin]

34. Not Going To Happen

Let's see.....you start out by declaring that any hunting rifle can be called a sniper rifle, and then you demand that I explain the difference between the two. Yeah, that would be a productive interchange, now wouldn't it?

How about I just adopt the definition that you've so kindly provided: a hunting rifle is a sniper rifle, and vice versa. I know better, but that's the definition that seems to make you happy.

Feel better?

[RoeBear]

35. So maybe you'll go to the VPC site...

...that I posted and see how THEY are defining sniper rifles?

[Paladin]

39. And Maybe I'll Just Let The Whole Matter Slide.....

....for lack of interest.

[FeebMaster]

37. Well,

I've never been hunting, so maybe I am mistaken about what would make a good hunting rifle. As you say, you know better, and I was just bowing to your superior knowledge on the subject.

[Paladin]

38. Don't Feel Bad........

....I've never been a sniper.

[FeebMaster]

40. Alright then just ignore my question.

Just remember. Those so called "traditional sporting" over-under shotguns are easily convertible to sawed off shotguns, making them the weapon of choice for criminals and terrorists.

[MrSandman]

42. Most of them seem well-suited to hunting

http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm

such as
http://www.snipercentral.com/stealth.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/sav110fp.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/m700p.htm

Win. Mod 70
Sav Mod 110
Rem Mod 700

I have taken deer and varmints with 2 of the three...even the bull barrel.

[MrSandman]

41. Question actions...

"Sniper rifle.
This menacing term is meant to incite fear. By referring to rifles as “sniper rifles”, it implies that all rifles are used for killing humans. This is not the case, as precision rifle shooters (such as those at the Boomer Shoot) and hunters do not aim at humans. According to Dictionary.com, a sniper is “one who shoots at other people from a concealed place.”

What precision shooters, hunters, and snipers have in common is that they all are aiming at a small target from a long distance. To suggest that all are using “sniper rifles” is inaccurate and misleading.

The only thing that precision rifle shooters, hunters, and snipers have in common is that they all use rifles. Similar gun. Similar ammo. Different intent.

Gun confiscators use this term so loosely that some people even call it sniping when a handgun is used. The term “sniper rifle” is virtually meaningless (yet very scary sounding, and very effective in inciting fear, which is very effective in passing anti-gun laws) because sniping has more to do with the actions and the objectives of the shooter, rather than with the firearm used."

http://boomershoot.org/general/ScaryWords.htm#SniperRifles

[RoeBear]

43. If I was a military or SWAT sniper...

...I would be very offended by the use of the term sniper being applied to the killers John Muhammad and Lee Malvo in 2002 or the current asshole (note the proper timing of the word asshole) that is shooting at people in Ohio.

[MrSandman]

44. As one should be offended...

However, the news was how "good" they could shoot rather than their criminal pathos. The news people showed their ignorance about marksmanship.

BTW, if accurate repeating rifles are not suitable for hunting, what about the ghillie suit. They can be expensive, though.

[Paladin]

48. I Remember It Well

Those of you who were taking part in the Gun Dungeon at the time of the D.C. Long Distance, Precision, But Not A For-Real Sniping Shootings, will recall that some of our resident gun enthusiasts opined that if the shooter had used a by-God authentic sniper's gun, he would have been much more effective. Apparently, an 11-for-13 kill ratio wasn't optimum performance.....

[Paladin]

47. Oh Puh-leese.....

The term "sniper rifle," like the term "assault rifle," is a marketing phrase, used by gun manufacturers to move product. Of all the unfortunate aspects of the modern gun scene in this country, perhaps none is more distasteful than the development of a sick worship of the sniper culture in recent years. The websites that cover and promote this action are stomach-turning. Hey, if I were into such a grim scene, I'd call myself a "precision rifle shooter," too.....

[MrSandman]

49. They are not used as marketing tools to my knowledge.

Assault rifle was originally applied to the MP44 and subsequent selective fire weapons opposed to the "battle rifle" designation of M1 Garand and M1903A1 Springfield.
Sniper rifle is a term used by gun control advocates to make an accurate hunting rifle sound scary. Until the 1970's, the U.S. Military Snipers used service rifles, target rifles, or hunting rifles with hunting or target sights attached. In Vietnam, the typical rifle used by snipers was a Model 70 or Model 700 with a hunting or target scope.
The first designed "sniper rifle" in the inventory is the M40A3. It is a hybrid of the Remington 700 and Winchester 70 with some expensive accurizing.
I don't know about this grim worship I have missed, but I do know that the only CMH recipients since Vietnam were snipers...awarded posthumously.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohsom.htm

[RoeBear]

28. Fueling my 'paranoid persecution complex'...

...is the VPC.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/sniper.htm

It's clear that they are referring to the 50 BMG round when they mention the 'heavy sniper rifle' what else but a 30 caliber could they be wanting to ban when they talk about the
'intermediate sniper rifle'.


"Bring heavy and intermediate sniper rifles under the control of the National Firearms Act. "

[MrBenchley]

31. Nor Does One Old Man In A Western State

Show us anything about the political affiliation of hunters....AS WAS CLAIMED.

[demsrule4life]

25. Here are a few sources for you

http://www.uspsa.org/
http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm
http://www.isishootists.com/scsa/
http://www.sassnet.com/
Several states have a handgun hunting season, including IL.

[CO Liberal]

3. From The Article

But the reductions in accidents also comes as fewer hunters take to the field. In New York, the ranks of hunters declined by 9 percent in the last decade, according to state figures.

And fewer drunks out there shooting at each other......

[Superfly]

4. Wow, hyperbole...

"drunks"...now that's intelligent argument.

[CO Liberal]

7. Based On Personal Experience

Where I grew up in New Jersey, there were woods behind our house, and a playground next to our house. Hunters would park in the playground parking lot and we'd see them walk across the ball field and into the woods. And after the hunters left, we'd go over to the park to use the basketball court and see the parking lot littered with beer cans.

This happened all the time, for YEARS.

[MrBenchley]

8. 700,000 hunters

and about 300,000 deer killed....

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/deer/deerfore.htm

Either more than half of them are utterly incompetent at their hobby...or the "hunting trip" was an excuse to go to a cabin and get stinking drunk with friends...

[demsrule4life]

9. Did you all check them beer cans

hoping they left some full ones behind and cuss them when they didnt?

[CO Liberal]

10. Nah

My late father's hobby was winemaking, so there was always an ample supply of "buzz juice" in our house.

:-)

[MrBenchley]

5. Fewer, older hunters

mandatory training and mandatory hunter's orange apparel ...and they still manage to plug each other.

[Superfly]

6. 2 people out of 700,000?

And the article doesn't even specify the cause of those fatalities. But that doesn't stop the anti-RKBA crowd from fabricating wild hyperbole to advance their losing position.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

46. before you go any further

Given your profile, it's clear to me that you are seriously out of place. This site is for liberals and progressives who want to talk to each other about various issues. If we spent all our time reacting to provocations from people who hate what we stand for, then the conversations that we come here to enjoy would never happen. You understand that, don't you? I'm sure you do, and I'm sure that you'll acknowledge your mistake and withdraw.

One other thing: the "C.S.A." -- the country you claim to be from -- does not exist.


Mary