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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:14 PM
Original message
Just a couple of swell guys hunting.....
"Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia traveled as an official guest of Vice President Dick Cheney on a small government jet that served as Air Force Two when the pair came here last month to hunt ducks.
The revelation cast further doubts about whether Scalia can be an impartial judge in Cheney's upcoming case before the Supreme Court, legal ethics experts said. The hunting trip took place just weeks after the high court agreed to take up Cheney's bid to keep secret the details of his energy policy task force.
he hunting camp is on private land and in a secluded section of a bayou. According to several local hunters, it includes a large floating camp where guests stay overnight. During the day, hunters armed with shotguns go out in small boats to duck blinds to position themselves for shooting.
The camp is owned by Wallace Carline, the head of Diamond Services Corp., an oil services firm that is on 41 acres of waterfront property in Amelia, La. The company provides oil dredging, pile driving, salvage work, fabrication, pipe-rolling capability and general oilfield construction.
Carline, who founded the company 42 years ago, also contributes money to local Republicans running for office in Louisiana. He refused to comment on the visit by Cheney and Scalia. "

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ducks5feb05,1,3912983.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. And how does this pertain to Justice or Public Safety?
What's your point in posting the article in this forum?

:shrug:
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was going to ask the same thing.
It doesn't really seem relevant to this forum, other than the assertion that the Justice Scalia will probably not be an impartial judge in Cheney's upcoming case.

I think, however, that the true motivation for posting this thread is to poo-poo the whole lot of hunters: "You see! Cheney is a hunter, therefore all hunters are baaaaaaaad." You will grow used to that transparent and desperate tactic, if you haven't already.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Seems at least as relevant as "Lookit my toy"
gun porn threads....

"poo-poo the whole lot of hunters"
Gee, you'd think the sort of folks who go to this oil guy's fantasy camp are the very cream of hunting society...
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I've never met the guy, so I really can't say.
"...the very cream of hunting society"

But I do agree that Scalia probably isn't the best choice for a judge in Cheney's case.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. It's Simple, Slackmaster
What's your point in posting the article in this forum?

How can there be "justice" when there's an obvious conflict of interst???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. From The "Latest" Page

Justice/Public Safety

Crime, Drugs, Death Penalty, Guns, Etc.

(Posted for the benefit of those who never bother to read the stuff under the link that brings you to this board....)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. B-b-b-b-but how does Justice Scalia fixing a case
fit into any of that? (snicker)

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. I was hoping for something with a little more depth
Edited on Mon Feb-09-04 06:36 AM by slackmaster
Maybe something we didn't already know, or something from which some hope for the future can be drawn. Or something with potential for use as a weapon to restore the checks and balances that are so clearly out of whack.

But it's just as I suspected - another "These Republicans really do suck ass!" thread with apologies to Eric Cartman.

Profound revelation here: That's what you get when one party has a lock on all three branches of the federal government. I tuned in to the George W. Bush interview on Meet the Depressed (pardon my Rushism) on Saturday just long enough to hear GWB say he planned on winning the election this year so he can pursue HIS vision for the future of the country. That was all I could stomach. We already know that his vision includes a ban on gay marriage, pre-emptive wars, the covering of certain body parts as represented in public art while his cronies fatten themselves at the public tit. Or is it teat.

We might as well get used to the kind of conflict of interest depicted in this article because it's going to become more common if we as the opposition party can't get our collective shit together and come up with a message that unifies people rather than trying to tear them apart.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Unable to Duck the Issue
More on Bwana Dick's duck slaughter....

"The Sierra Club, one of the groups that brought the case to force Cheney to reveal information about his energy policy task force, is seriously considering filing a request with Scalia to recuse. Officials of Judicial Watch, the other party in the case, could not be reached for comment.
"We certainly understand why this trip creates such public concern about the appearance of impartiality," says David Bookbinder, Washington legal director for the Sierra Club. "But before we do anything as dramatic as asking for recusal, we want to gather the facts."
One target of his inquiry: Wallace Carline, who hosted Cheney and Scalia. Carline is president of the Diamond Services Corp., an Amelia, La., oil industry services company. According to Federal Election Commission records, Carline has donated $4,000 to GOP candidates and groups since 1998, including $1,500 to Rep. Billy Tauzin, R-La. Bookbinder wants to know who paid for Scalia's trip and lodging, and whether Carline has links to the energy task force. Carline declines comment. "

http://biz.yahoo.com/law/040202/4d60efe856959c8f8d7b21d271d1ef1c_1.html
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Salon Takes a Look
"Feb. 6, 2004  |  MORGAN CITY, La. (AP) _ A duck hunting trip Vice President Dick Cheney took with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia last month has raised questions about a possible conflict of interest because Scalia was hearing a case involving Cheney at the time of the hunt.
The trip included a flight in a U.S. government jet, a ride in a police motorcade and lodging in a floating hunting camp owned by an oil-services tycoon who is a longtime Scalia friend.
A panoply of Secret Service and local law enforcement guarded the hunting party, and though the shooting was poor, the "strictly social" occasion, as participant Louis Prejean described it, was enjoyable.
Congressional Democrats and newspaper editorials have called for Scalia to step down from the case, which has to do with whether Cheney must reveal who serves on his energy task force. Further complicating the question: The host of the hunting trip is a prominent member of the energy industry. "

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/02/06/duck_trip/index.html

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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hate to ask the obvious....
but so the fuck what? :shrug:

Are you trying to make a point or are you just going to copy and paste articles?
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. What is he pissed about?
The hunting or conflict of interest?
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's what I want to find out...
...
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. My guess would be the hunting since guns are involved
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I would be inclined to agree...
...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Minneapolis Star-Tribune: Where the ducks are
"You have to give Vice President Dick Cheney credit. He goes hunting where the ducks are.
More precisely, he spent several days in early January on a duck hunting trip with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, at a private camp in southern Louisiana.
Such companionship between a politician and a Supreme Court justice might not ordinarily raise eyebrows in all quarters, but the timing of this excursion made it particularly controversial. Just three weeks earlier, the Supreme Court, with Scalia's participation, had agreed to hear Cheney's appeal in a major lawsuit.
No one would question attendance at a White House dinner, but Justice Scalia's vacation raises far more serious issues, especially if he insists on sitting in Cheney's case (which, ironically, is all about cronyism).
While unwilling to acknowledge that the joint vacation compromised his apparent neutrality, he did take care to reassure the Los Angeles Times about another aspect of the junket. The ducks, wrote Scalia, "tasted swell." "

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4357879.html

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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Could you tell us what the real issue is here?
Is it the hunting or the impression that Cheney is trying to gain favors with Scalia? For me the hunting is a non issue, the real issue is Cheney trying to weasel out of justice in the future.
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Liberal Classic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Exactly, this is a schmoozing session
Could be golfing or in the smokey backroom.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. well gosh, my guess might be:
It's kinda worth knowing that this particular bit of hunting seems to be, forgive me, a bit of a blind, a cover for something else. Indeed: "a non issue".

Bwana Dick and the boys go off hunting for a bit and do their business. Actually, I'd be curious whether any of them actually did any hunting at all, other than for the benefit of a photographer.

But what do the common folks see? Not the dirty dealing that one can hardly be expected to believe was *not* going on; no: the boys, doing what the common folk themselves do. Boys hanging out in boats shooting dinner.

Just one more in a myriad of ways of pulling wool over people's eyes and giving them completely irrelevant reasons for them to vote for ya. And false reasons, even if they were relevant -- Cheney and the boys really are not just like the common folk whose votes they want, they really do drink very expensive whisky and smoke very expensive cigars and sleep on very expensive sheets and take very expensive vacations and eat food that they never have to cook.

Just like all those effete, non-hunting Democrats do.


Demagoguery. A dishonest appeal to emotion and prejudice.

How can anybody look at a guy doing something as down-home and patriotic and law-abiding and god-fearin' as shooting dinner and think he could have been getting up to anything dirty? Hell, if duck-hunters can't be trusted, who can? We hunt ducks, all our friends hunt ducks, and we're the salt of the earth, after all.

(And how can anybody who doesn't do something as down-home and patriotic and law-abiding and god-fearin' as shooting dinner -- like all those big-city Democrats -- be trusted?)

Why, not trusting a duck-hunting Vice-President ... that would be almost like not trusting Moses.


Just a little drop in the bucket of right-wing demagoguery, undoubtedly ... but it would shore be a whole lot easier not to trust some guy who did his dirty dealing in an off-shore hotel, say in the Cayman Islands, wouldn't it?

This fakery is far more endemic, and far more successful, in US politics than in Canadian (and no European would dream of trying it); witness two articles that have been referenced at DU this week (emphases added):

Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh

According to a new poll, only 15 per cent of us would vote for the President

... ON THE HUMID night in August 2000 when George W. Bush officially became the Republican nominee for president, the thousands of delegates and reporters packed into a Philadelphia arena were given a peek at what party strategists planned to sell to the American people. The beautifully realized infomercial was mostly shots of Bush at his Crawford, Tex., ranch, tending stock, mending fences, driving a vintage pickup truck with his spaniel perched on his lap, all the while talking about his vision of a big country with small-town values. It was a persona lifted straight from a Hollywood Western. The likeable, soft-talking cowpoke who knows the value of an honest day's work and isn't afraid to take on the guys in the black hats when the town's in trouble. Reagan successfully mined the same vein for eight years. And it's an image that continues to pay dividends for Bush, playing off his folksy, good-natured strengths, and positioning him as someone who might reasonably be excused for not reading newspapers or knowing the names of his foreign counterparts. Clearing brush on the back forty is a lot more man-of-the-people than weekending at the palatial family compound in Kennebunkport, Me.

But Canadians have never been that comfortable with the type of cowboys who take the law into their own hands. Our frontier heroes were the scarlet-clad North West Mounted Police, not lone gunslingers.
Well, and not just that. We really just point and laugh at politicians trying to look like they're not politicians, they're just ordinary guys doing ordinary stuff. We know that Paul Martin can't cook Kraft Dinner, even if he does claim that, just like all the rest of us, it's his favourite food, and that's the bit we tend to remember. He's a rich white anglo guy, not one of us.


Christian soldier Bush swears by the Lord

<Cdn Prime Minister> Martin was somewhat taken aback by what he heard. After the meeting <with Bush>, he was barely out the door before he was asking someone in his entourage what was to be made of all the God stuff. In meetings of presidents and prime ministers, religion has rarely been at the forefront. Business is conducted on the basis of knowledge and logic. With the Bush White House, the visitors must bear in mind that there is a third force.

With U.S. voters, he scores well for his religious views. It gives him moral clarity. In Canada, it hasn't helped his image. As a Maclean's poll reveals this week, this President is one of the most disliked in history. His sense of sanctimony combined with the right-wing warrior mentality is a potent non-seller.

It's all phoney and it's all demagoguery, the duck-shootin' and the cow-pokin' and the bible-thumpin', but a lot of people seem to fall for it.

And some people seem to think it would be a good idea for Democrats to be demagogues too.

Being a hunter does not make anybody one of the common people, or even a friend of the common people. And being a non-hunter does not make anybody an enemy of the common people. I'd stay focused on that message, if I were influencing any messages.

.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Of course it was for dirty dealing
why such a fuss over the hunting?
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I don't know...
just replace any reference to hunting with any of the following:

"skiing"
"water polo"
"basketweaving"

The activity is immaterial, but the dirty dealing is not.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "water polo" !?! Now you're grinding my axe!
The sons of bitches were playing water polo together? I don't trust people that play water polo. Who the Hell do they think they are?

Or maybe we could just talk about the real issue and how stupid it is for a VP and a SCJ to be pal-ing around together while court cases are pending. (or even if they aren't)
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. glub bibble xanadu yippers

mmph pip yumyum upzeepht.

I guess that must have been what I wrote in that previous post came out as on the monitor, else why would anyone ask that question?

I shan't guess on that one.

.

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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm sure you did
but which chapter was it in?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Amazing, isn't it?
How serious does somebody's gun fetish have to be to be utterly unable to understand why a thread about a judge and the vice president trying to put the fix in under the gaze of an oil company executive would possibly be in the "Justice/Public Safety" folder?

Especially since this thread involves Bwana Dick's proposed energy program, which poses a massive thrreat to the environment and public safety.

Of course it's just icing on the cake that these are the sort of scum that pimp the "gun rights" horseshit in public, (Cheney is so pro-gun he voted FOR plastic guns and cop-killer bullets) and that they decided the ideal way to seal the deal was to kill some stuff to show what "sportsmen" they were.

Incidentally, the only way the RKBA crowd is ever going to get the Surpeme Court ruling they want is if this unelected drunk can shoehorn another crooked shitheel like Tony Scalia on the Court. A Democratic president is going to nominate an honest judge.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. And what is an honest judge?
one that is against guns and what people read?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's not Scalia or cross-burning Charlie Pickering
and I doubt right wing cesspools like Opinion Journal and Newsmax are going to like any Democratic choice for the Court...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Los Angeles Times: Scalia's Blind Eye
"Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia didn't just casually meet up with Vice President Dick Cheney for a few days of male bonding and duck shooting in Louisiana last month on a hunting trip. The judge was the vice president's official guest. Yet Scalia still declines to recuse himself from a case before the court involving Cheney. This is a serious ethical issue that Scalia clearly wants to minimize. That cannot be done because the more that is known about the January trip, the worse it looks. The appearance of impropriety is something that ought to concern all members of the nation's highest court.
Scalia flew to rural Louisiana with Cheney on a small government jet that served as Air Force Two. As Times staffer David Savage reported, a second Air Force jet followed with the vice president's staff and security aides. Cheney and Scalia were then whisked away to the private hunting camp in a heavily guarded motorcade.
In mid-December, the high court voted to hear arguments in the appeal, now scheduled for April. Three weeks after that vote, Scalia and Cheney spent two days huddled together in a Louisiana marsh. Because the duck hunting was lousy, they had plenty of time to kill — and to talk privately.
Yet the other seven justices must surely understand that their court's reputation for independence, already called into question by the Bush vs. Gore decision, is now very much on the line. The majority in that case, which included Scalia, marshaled legal reasoning that can best be called a stretch to block recounts of disputed Florida ballots and put George W. Bush in the White House. Scalia's continued participation in Cheney's appeal will only deepen concerns that the justices put their political allegiances before the law. It's time Scalia's colleagues took him aside for a little chat. "

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-scalia6feb06,1,3834503.story
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. Dowd: Murder Most Fowl
"Now, with the White House looking untrustworthy and desperate; with the national security team flapping around and pointing fingers at each other and, of course, Bill Clinton; with even the placid Laura getting testy; and with Newsweek reporting that the Justice Department is reviewing whether Halliburton was involved in paying $180 million in kickbacks to get contracts in Nigeria at a time when Dick Cheney was chairman, anybody else would be sweating.
Not deadeye Dick. His heavy lids didn't blink when it turned out he'd blown up a half-century of American foreign policy alliances on a high-level hallucination.
Here he was, fresh from presenting a crystal dove to an obviously perplexed pope, stolidly waiting for the club's pheasant wranglers to shoo the doomed birds into his line of fire. He had killed only 70 or so the last time out. But this time he was convinced that the bird population could sustain more casualties. Quack and Awe.
"This is our due," Dick said. He fired a shot: BLAM!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/opinion/08DOWD.html?th=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1076241893-U16cXz6lPothUgPpm40pJw
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
31. Lucky Ducky...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
32. From the BBC...
"Fresh revelations about a shooting trip taken by US Vice-President Dick Cheney and a Supreme Court judge are fuelling renewed allegations of impropriety.
Justice Antonin Scalia accompanied Mr Cheney, an old friend, on a duck-shooting trip to Louisiana in January.
The Los Angeles Times says they travelled aboard one of the presidential jets, Air Force Two.
Mr Cheney is a defendant in a case currently before the Supreme Court over his refusal to grant access to records.
Justices regularly withdraw from cases where a conflict of interest is perceived. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3466191.stm
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