AWB renewal vote NOW!

[FatSlob]

On CSPAN2 as an amendment to S.1805

[FatSlob]

1. Passed the Senate

52-47

[slackmaster]

2. Larry Craig is an idiot

The "gun show loophole" is NOT about commerce. It's about private sales of used, personal property.

On edit:

"McCain-Reed Amendment - Exempts dealers selling guns in their homes..."

For fuck's sake, can't they EVER get anything right? Dealers have to conduct background checks no matter where a sale takes place.

[slackmaster]

3. What a cluster operation!

I agree with Senator Kennedy about the amendment giving special privileges to retired cops, but not for the reason he presents. I'm all for protecting "the children", but giving special perquisites to former LEOs is anathema to democracy.

The whole spectacle frustrates me severely. I'm left with the impression that most of our Senators have no clue what they're debating about, and votes are based on whether they see guns as good or bad rather than the actual issues.

[jhfenton]

4. Agreed

I think a large portion are simply ignorant. At least that's what I hope. It's too painful to believe that 52 Senators would knowingly betray their oaths of office.

[MrBenchley]

5. Gee, fenton

the only betrayal here is the imbeciles who sold out public safety for the corrupt gun industry.

P..S.: The amendment to close the gun show loophole passed too.

[slackmaster]

6. ROTFLMAO!

Good one, Bench. Thanks for brightening up an otherwise dull morning

:toast:

I think I'm just about ready to cast my votes in the California primary election. Maybe a little more coffee first.

P..S.: The amendment to close the gun show loophole passed too.

With the inevitable unintended consequence of a proliferation of very small shows where no more than 74 guns are offered for sale.

[Stoker]

7. I don't think so...

I don't think closing this "loophole" will affect gun shows one bit.

Now, instead of Bubba selling Joe his carbine on the show grounds, if Joe has some problem with undergoing a background check they will just walk across the street to the Waffle House parking lot and conduct personal business there.

This is one battle I'm almost glad to loose. At least we won't hear the constant whining about this "Gunshow Looooooophooooole!" anymore.

Stoker

[Romulus]

8. Not so fast

This is one battle I'm almost glad to loose. At least we won't hear the constant whining about this "Gunshow Looooooophooooole!" anymore.

Get ready to hear about the "minor location changes" that evade "the gunshow loophole closing."

Another "loophole"! :eyes:

[slackmaster]

9. Have you ever heard of the "classified ad loophole"?

That will be next.

[Dolomite]

10. closely followed by the

gun "ownership loophole"

At least Russ Feingold voted against the AWB renewal - but it got tacked on anyway :(

[Wickerman]

11. So, if Joe can't pass his background check

how do the gun gods down here want to police him? How do we keep him from getting guns at whatever type of gun show is ultimately available or at the Waffle House? (damn, I knew there was a reason those grease pits survived - gun trafficking!)

[FeebMaster]

12. It isn't possible (nt)

...

[jhfenton]

14. See, you already want to close the Waffle House loophole.

The so-called "gun show loophole" is just one tiny aspect of the "private sale loophole." Right now, the Senate authoritarians are giving lip-service to respecting private sales. Despite their feigned protestations to the contrary, if they get the "gun show loophole" closed, they will quickly be back to criminalize all private sales.

For what it's worth, Waffle Houses post tiny "no guns" signs. Though the signs are not compliant in most states to prohibit concealed carry, I would expect Waffle House to prevent open-air gun markets.

[slackmaster]

15. Keep Joe in prison where he belongs

Or a mental hospital.

Other than that, it is not physically possible to prevent him from getting any gun, drug, or otherwise doing whatever pleases him.

[Stoker]

16. I don't.

"So, if Joe can't pass his background check how do the gun gods down here want to police him?

I don't want to police the individual sale of firearms.

Mostly because the government doesn't have any business tracking the sale of my own private property, but also because I know it is a fool's errand to try to do it.

If I want to sell a firearm to someone, there is next to nothing the government can do to stop or track it. Even if the government were to resort to some arcane procedure, such as random 30-day check-ins by the police to check on the firearms you own by their records, there is nothing to stop me from simply saying "I lost it", or "It was stolen".

Stoker

[MrBenchley]

17. Hey, the NRA wants to solve the problem

by getting rid of background checks...

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

21. Tell it to somebody dumb enough to buy it...

The NRA opposed the Brady Bill and did their best to water it down. They tried several times to get it repealed and regularly attack it at every opportunity.

[slackmaster]

22. NRA opposed the Brady Bill as originally presented

But they were instrumental in getting it revised into the version that passed, and passed with their support.

[Columbia]

23. Ha!

You said this: "Hey, the NRA wants to solve the problem by getting rid of background checks..."

Please qualify this statement with a link to a supporting document that states the NRA is advocating the repeal of background checks.

[MrBenchley]

24. Been there, done that

Here's the scumbags slamming Dean for his support for background checks....and calling every other Democrat anti-gun.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=127

[slackmaster]

25. Cited Web page does not support the claim

Nowhere does it state that the NRA is opposed to background checks or slam Howard Dean for supporting them.

Not even close.

[Columbia]

26. Zap!

Nope! Try again!

You've had 2 tries, you got one more to go.

[MrBenchley]

27. I've done it twice

[slackmaster]

28. And you were wrong both times

A for effort, F for results.

[Columbia]

29. You lose! Better luck next time!!!

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FAQs/Default.aspx?Section=22

Does NRA feel that anybody should be allowed to own a firearm?

NRA believes the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the right of the individual to keep and bear arms and that the government should not interfere with any law-abiding citizen’s private decision to own, or not to own, a firearm. Felons, particularly those convicted of violent offenses should, as a result of their own actions, have their right to own a firearm abridged.

[MrBenchley]

30. Nothing there about background checks...

But who the hell really cares what the NRA wants anyway?

[Columbia]

31. Apparently you do

Since you and another poster constantly bring them up.

[MrBenchley]

33. Only to show what scum are pushing "gun rights" in public

[Columbia]

38. But I thought you didn't care?

"But who the hell really cares what the NRA wants anyway?"

[slackmaster]

34. It dosn't say NRA opposes background checks

Nor do any sources you have presented.

So where did you get that alleged information?

[slackmaster]

20. It's so easy to pull statements out of "the air"

And only slightly harder to substantiate them.

Got a cite, MrBenchley?

[jhfenton]

13. Betrayal

The real betrayal is those who sold out their oaths of office for the sake of unconstitutional, feel-good legislation that does nothing but infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens.

How can I respect as legitimate a government that bans a class of firearms at the same time it bans the right to criticize the legislators that passed the law?

Even though I believe the House will strip the scary-looking semi-automatic rifle ban from the bill, I am saddened at the realization that the federal government has abandoned every principle that made it worthy of respect. There is hardly a right, whether enumerated or unenumerated, left uninfringed, and we have been led to this sorry end by both major parties.

[MrBenchley]

18. Gee fenton, it's only cosmetics

as the RKBA crowd keeps assuring us (don't tell me that was all a LIE)....maybe you can hang a halloween mask on your popgun to make it scary enough to suit..<snicker>

[CO Liberal]

36. If It's Truly Only "Cosmetics"....

...why are so many pro-gunners drooling when the think of the day when they can get their hands on these weapons?

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

39. Because the "cosmetics" claim is horseshit

The wonder is not that the argument is dishonest, but that it is so transparently so.

[slackmaster]

41. Where's the beef?

If it's not about cosmetics, kindly educate us as to what it IS about.

Or maybe you can't.

[hijinks]

44. 10 round mags n/t

[slackmaster]

47. Larger ones are still plentiful

As I've said many times, the AWB didn't actually ban anything.

[hijinks]

52. some are some are not

You can't get them for a Steyr m9 for instance.

[RoeBear]

40. It's the slippery slope thing CO...

...you know the one that 'bigfoot' keeps sliding down.

[slackmaster]

42. Bigfoot stole my Twinkie

Now I want to shoot something.

:freak:

[RoeBear]

50. Did you know that the Tooth Fairy...

...packs heat?

[jimsteuben]

55. the day that the AWB dies

My wife and I have arms that are different lengths. If we can buy a rifle with an adjustable stock, then we'd be able to share it.

[CO Liberal]

32. How About Those Who Sold Out Their Oaths Of Office....

...to kiss the NRA's collective ass?

[MrBenchley]

35. You'd think the RKBA crowd

would be light-hearted, seeinng as how they claim the ban doesn't do anything and only affects "cosmetics."

Guess they're much more sensitive aesthetes than we thought <snicker>.

[slackmaster]

37. There's nothing light-hearted about tyrannical laws

Especially ones that don't have any upside.

[Stoker]

43. The reason...

The reason why the RKBA crowd is not "light-hearted" about anti-gun leglislation, even inneffective restrictions on firearms ownership, like restrictions based on cosmetics, is because we are all highly aware of the sort of incrementalism that the anti-gun crowd is attempting to use to further their ultimate goal of banning firearms outright. There is little light-heartedness to be found in watching the frog boil to death as the water slowly heats up.

Stoker

[MrBenchley]

45. Actually the "cosmetics" claim was just horseshit

like pretty much everything else in the RKBA repertoire.

[slackmaster]

46. Prove it

Let's see something with substance, unlike the personal opinions you keep repeating like a broken record.

[CO Liberal]

48. The Same Way We're Leery of CCW

Many of us who advocate reasonable gun control view concealed-carry as a way to start the slippery slope in the other direction.

[Stoker]

49. But looking at the facts...

demonstrates who's right and who isn't.

The slippery slope of infringing on the right of firearms ownership has lead to ever-more infringements on that right, with no let-up in sight.

The "slippery slope" of ever-more-liberal concealed carry laws has not lead to "blood in the streets" as was thought by those against it. In fact, despite decades of ever-more-infringing restrictions on the right to bear arms, it cannot be said that those restrictions have paid off with reduced crime.

There is nothing ill to be had by sliding down the slippery slope to more and more Americans enjoying their full freedom and duty to defend life and liberty. Not only should we slide down that slide, we should grease the rails.

On September 13, 2004, they will get a good, though much delayed, dose of grease.

Stoker

[RoeBear]

51. For a long time us pro gun rights folks...

...were on the wrong side of the hill. But now we are over the top and pushing the anti-freedom bunch down the other side of the hill.

It feels good.

[jhfenton]

53. Slippery slope

Many of us who advocate reasonable gun control view concealed-carry as a way to start the slippery slope in the other direction.

I will admit that that is my goal, and therein lies the difference.

[jimsteuben]

54. They should give special gun-packing privileges to cops

And also special gun privileges to ex-cops and senators and their bodyguards and talkshow hosts and their bodyguards and newspaper editors and movie stars (even those with bad tempers and criminal records) and rich people and well-connected people.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what "gun control" is all about. The elites keep their guns; we the (little) people give up ours.