Barrett: Make absolute sobriety a condition of concealed carry

[villager]

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett called Thursday for absolute sobriety as a condition for carrying a concealed weapon.

Barrett says he remains opposed to legalizing concealed carry in Wisconsin. But he said he agrees with Police Chief Edward Flynn and the Common Council that some form of the legislation is certain to become law, and that opponents must turn their efforts to revising the bill to make it more workable.

And that means legislators should prohibit gun owners from drinking; require permits and training to carry concealed weapons; and impose felony penalties for illegally carrying guns or buying guns for people who aren't legally allowed to own them, Barrett told reporters. He also wants local officials to have discretion over issuing concealed-carry permits.

None of those requirements is in the legislation endorsed Wednesday by the Senate Judiciary Committee. Under that bill, anyone who is legally allowed to own a firearm could carry it just about anywhere without a permit or training. Gun owners could pay $35 for a state-issued permit to carry their weapons within 1,000 feet of a school, but not onto the school grounds or into police stations, courthouses or jails.

Barrett said that bill was "simply kowtowing to the extremists who want this to be the wild, wild West."

<snip>

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/122694013.html

[PavePusher]

1. Perhaps someone can point out to me where this "wild, wild West" phenomenon has actually occured?

'Cause I don't see it...

[lawodevolution]

4. Arizona has seen a steep decline in violent crime rates and Arizona is the "wild west" they are

talking about.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

8. Try South L.A.

Here in my part of East L.A., we used to hear gunshots in our neighborhood on Saturday nights and holidays. People would just fire guns into the air and let the bullets fall where they might.

Why were the bullets flying free at those particular times? Because the folks shooting them were too drunk to think about their kids playing near them.

Shootings occur in the parking lots of bars for the same reason. People drink, lose their inhibitions, become angry or excited and shoot without thinking.

[gejohnston]

15. Interesting, in LA, but I have never seen or heard it in Wyoming, New Mexico, or Florida

I wonder why that is.

[JDPriestly]

21. Who knows?

A neighbor's house burned last year due to firecrackers set off by children from the neighborhood.

Perhaps when people are trapped in large cities (and Los Angeles sprawls for miles and miles), they wish to express their wilder instincts. I don't know.

My relatives in the Midwest who live in the countryside really should not have to have permits to own guns -- to hunt in season, perhaps, but not just to own them.

But the police in LA need to know who legally possesses a gun and who does not. It's a different social environment.

[gejohnston]

28. Cities are cool to visit and hit the museums and all of the good cultural stuff

but for every day living, I'll stick to Hooterville. OK shows my age.

[JDPriestly]

29. I grew up in small town America and miss it terribly.

[PavePusher]

32. Sorry, the police do not "need" to know anything about legally exercised Rights...

and the criminals will not publicly announce their doing so.

So the "permit" system basically fails on its own lack of merits.

[benEzra]

18. The average person can't get a CHL in Los Angeles, and I seriously doubt

the people you are talking about are even in possession of those guns legally.

[JDPriestly]

19. But if no permits were required, they would all have them legally.

That's why permits are necessary.

[Bold Lib]

25. Not if they have prior felony convictions. Most of the articles I read

from that area such is the case so they would NOT be carrying them legally - just like now.

[benEzra]

26. Most states require carry permits. However, in CA, they are restricted to the wealthy,

the politically connected, and those who donate to their local sheriff's reelection campaigns.

The thing is, there are two largely separate gun cultures in the United States. The dominant one is that of safe, lawful, responsible use for defensive purposes, recreational target shooting, and occasionally competition and hunting. The other is the criminal gun culture, characterized by violence, carelessness, and disrespect for basic gun safety. Guess which group accounts for a vastly disproportionate share of gun accidents.

California works very hard to squelch the culture of responsible gun use; most of their restrictions are aimed squarely at law-abiding shooters (the aforementioned restrictions on carry license issuance to lawful individuals, the Roberti-Roos ban on the most popular civilian rifles in the United States, extremely harsh magazine restrictions, yadda yadda yadda). The criminal gun culture, on the other hand, operates in CA pretty much with impunity, and it shows.

BTW, Federal law and plenty of state laws ban gun possession by criminals, and opening up carry licensure to the non-wealthy and non-connected (as it is in most states) wouldn't change that.

[YllwFvr]

31. If there were no permits only non felons would have them legally

Like many other places in the country

Not much point in having a permit system when only the super rich or well connected can have them.

It does kind of mark who is "better" than everyone else though doesnt it?

There are plenty of places where law enforcement doesnt know who has them legally. Going into the law enforcement field myself im fine with that. I may even have to investigate!!!

[WatsonT]

45. California is known for their strongly pro-gun laws

and complete lack of regulations.

:eyes:

[RandomThoughts]

2. Civility and order in a system of disorder.

is a double fault, using a claim of order to continue disorder.

And I am due beer and travel money, so being twice as far from order, false order, we may have to go through visible disorder, to achieve a more just and compassionate state.

Currently we are in a false order, or deceptions of there being justice and compassion.

So removing that layer of lies, will make things that are already worse then disorder, appear worse, when only the lies are removed, then from there they can move to justice and compassion.


It is like a criminal system nobody knows about, it is false justice, so first the lies have to be removed, then things fixed.

But by many observations it looks like order to disorder to order, becuase many believed the lies of the false order in the first state.


Don't believe me? I am due beer and travel money and many experiences.

[cleanhippie]

3. Nonsense. Why is it when the prohibitionists try and formulate a coherent argument

about gun control, they blow what little credibility they may have with nonsensical phrases like "wild,wild west?" Its fear mongering, plain and simple. :puke:

[sharesunited]

5. Justify the need to carry guns in Wisconsin's cities and towns. Can't be done.

Cougar and bear country perhaps. But you come into town, you disarm.

[eqfan592]

6. Can and has been done.

Dozens of times in fact. You just ignore it though, so whats the point?

[RSillsbee]

22. Cougar and bear country perhaps.

Both types of animals are routinely sighted in downtown Colorado Springs and I find bear poop in my back yard once or twice a year.

So, according to you, we're good right?

[rrneck]

24. If you went outside

you would be aware of an invention that facilitates the movement of people and their stuff from one place to another. They're called roads, and they run into and out of every city the country. You don't even need papers to use them.

[PavePusher]

33. 'Cause self-defense is never needed in town, right?

Your foolishness is no longer amusing.

[WatsonT]

46. Justify the ban

that's how this works: you have to justify outlawing some behavior. The rest of us don't have to justify not outlawing it.

You would have us start from a position of slavery and then argue our rights. I would prefer we start from a position of total freedom and then have to justify any and every limit on that freedom.

[Logical]

7. Carrying a gun and driving a car should be the same. It is in Kansas.....

why is carrying a gun any more dangerous than driving a car?

So you can drive a car in Kansas at .07 and also carry a gun. Seems fair.

[pnorman]

11. Try concealing a car in your pocket,

and then get back too me.

[eqfan592]

12. And exactly why does that matter?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't at all actually. But hey, nice try though.

[pnorman]

13. Nice try yourself!

n/t

[eqfan592]

14. lol, just as I thought.

Thank you for simply confirming my last post. ;)

[PavePusher]

34. A car has on the order of 100,000x the kinetic energy of a bullet....

and they are used to kill over 30% more people every year.

What was your point again?

[pnorman]

16. The PRIMARY purpose by far of a car

is to transport someone from one place to the other (and with as little bloodshed if possible).

The PRIMARY purpose by far of a gun is to transport a metal projectile from the chamber to the vital parts of another mammal (with NO restriction on bloodshed).

Most people would agree that a car (concealed in a pocket or otherwise) would be a poor analogy to a gun.

[Oneka]

23. No restriction on bloodshed,... Really?

Is murder leagal in any state in the Union?
The use of a gun is highly restricted in most areas.

Most state preemption laws allow, municipalities to restrict the discharge of a firearm.

In Wisconsin the use of a firearm on a person, in a self defense situation, will be investigated as a homicide and the shooter will have to prove that his actions were consistent with self defense, or face criminal charges.


NO restriction on bloodshed indeed. :sarcasm:

[PavePusher]

35. "PRIMARY purpose"?

Actually, their primary purpose seems to be to poke holes in paper or sit in closets/cabinets/safes and collect dust. But your distortions are noted.

[pnorman]

37. "poke holes in paper or sit in closets/cabinets/safes and collect dust."

Ya need a Concealed Carry Permit for those activities REALLY?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[PavePusher]

38. I repeat: "PRIMARY purpose"

Run a little mental math and statistics on numbers of guns owned and what uses and numbers they are put to.

To paraphrase: "Man is the animal that can count past three". Well, usually, anyway...

[pnorman]

39. Er, the topic of this discussio is "concealed carry in a public place"

n/t

[aikoaiko]

10. Glad to see Wisconsin finally coming around.

Just provide a reasonably means of allowing nonprohibited citizens to carry and stop the hand wringing.

[Doctor_J]

17. But, the 2nd Amendment doesn't say I have to be sober!

or sane, for that matter

:rofl:

[PavePusher]

36. Neither does the rest of the Constitution.

And people prove it every day.

What was your point...?

[RSillsbee]

20. Make absolute sobriety a condition of concealed carry

Ok.

[petronius]

27. I would consider requiring background checks and training requirements to be reasonable,

but they should be shall-issue, without financial or other barriers (e.g. scheduling), and the permit/training requirements should be demonstrably related the the responsibilities and circumstances of concealed carry - nothing more or less.

Absolute sobriety seems excessively strict, but I wouldn't cry over it (actually, I'd be OK with a BAC limit of ~0.04 for both CCW and driving).

Not sure why Barrett lumped the straw-purchaser thing in, but it looks like he just got on a roll and spewed out all the gun-control buzzwords... :shrug:

[Doctor_J]

40. The NRA wouldn't

and they hold a lot more sway than the sane people

[petronius]

42. Well, I guess the NRA will just have to post for itself here

I can only speak to my own opinions... :shrug:

[pipoman]

30. It depends on his definition of "absolute sobriety",

if this means that someone with a ccw cannot drink while carrying a gun, OK. OTOH if "absolute sobriety" means a permit holder can not drink period, as it would if the term "absolute sobriety" would mean in a clinical setting, well then I think he's full o'shit. If the latter is the case, then the same should be applied to law enforcement, national guard, security guards, armored truck drivers, etc.

Apparently his idea of a good idea is introduction of corruption into the licensing process..."He also wants local officials to have discretion over issuing concealed-carry permits.", yeah, them local officials would never sell their discretion, or allow their personal prejudices to effect their discretion..naaahh, that's never happened in "may issue" states..

[Katya Mullethov]

41. Presense of metabolites

Doesnt mean you are intoxicated .

[benEzra]

43. Doyle TWICE vetoed CCW bills that gave the critics everything they now say they want.

If you want to point fingers, a few fingers in that direction would be apropos, I think.

[WatsonT]

44. Ok. That seems fine

Just like for driving.