Our View: Awash in guns

[jpak]

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110601/OPINION/106010358/-1/NEWSMAP

According to the Centers for Disease Control, five states — New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut and Hawaii — rank from 45th to 50th in the nation in gun deaths per 100,000 people.

The same states have the toughest gun laws in the nation.

In contrast, Louisiana has the highest gun death rate in the country and some of the most lenient gun laws.

Coincidence? Not a chance.

<much more>

:thumbsup:

[gejohnston]

1. My reply

You quote the Brady group but not FBI or InterPol statistics. Notice that you quote the school of public health, but nothing by criminologists. In fact, every Brady talking point you cite have been debunked by criminologists, many like Gary Kleck and Marvin Wolfgang, are no friends of the NRA. Interesting that you include Finland because they have among the highest firearms rates in the world. According to the latest UN study, 52 percent of all Finnish homes have firearms in them.
While few states have background checks, but the feds do. The background check system was and is supported by the NRA and gun owners.
Lastly, since our current gun control laws are rarely enforced or prosecuted including ones written in the 1930s.
Have your own opinion, but at least base it on real information from credible sources.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

29. Wait a minute.

...at least base it on real information from credible sources.

I feel that the 'jpak' posts/hour and my basic amusement/post will suffer significantly from this suggestion. :evilfrown:

[gejohnston]

31. good point

:think:

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. And where do California, Maryland and Vermont place on that list?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[spin]

4. Maryland comes in at #2 just behind Louisiana, California is #4 and Vermont is #49 ...

according to Gun violence in the United States by state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

The Brady Campaign feels California has the best gun control laws in the nation and gives the state 4 stars, puts Maryland in 7th place with 2 stars and Vermont tied at 28 and just above Florida with no stars.
source 2010 STATE RANKINGS http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/stateleg/scorecard/2010/2010_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

[friendly_iconoclast]

7. So it really *is* a coincidence. All those that are surprised by this, raise your hands...

...and sign up for a remedial course in statistics.

[friendly_iconoclast]

3. Why does New Bedford (where the OP is from) have a higher gun death rate than Manchester, NH?

Both cities are impoverished, almost identical in size, and a couple of hours apart by car.


So why does the city subject to some of "the toughest gun laws in the nation" have a higher murder and violent crime rate

than a nearby city subject to "some of the most lenient gun laws."?


I've asked this question several times in the last few years, and have yet to hear word one from antis about this inconvenient

truth.

[ileus]

5. Those gunz keep on ahkillin' people...

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Slight correction: *People* keep on ahkillin' people, regardless of gun laws...

Those that have read and understood the other comments will understand: 99.99% of the time 'gunz' don't do jack shit unless

someone pulls the trigger...

[ileus]

10. people are innocent, it's the guns that corrupt. They whisper to us Kill, KIll, Kill...

[lawodevolution]

6. Vermont has a lower murder rate than all of those states listed.

Japan has a low gun death rate also but the murder plus suicide rate is a lot higher than the USA. If you focus on gun deaths you imply that you don't really care about murder or suicide, you just don't want guns to be the tool used. I'd rather reduce murder and suicide rate as a whole.

[DWC]

9. Bulls Eye +1 n/t

[krispos42]

11. And they also have good social services and good public schools

and decent wages.

And what they DON'T have is the lowest homicide rate.


And a glaring error here...


Count along with with, just like The Count

45th = 1
46th = 2
47th = 3
48th = 4
49th = 5
50th = 6

Six! Six places to fill! Ah-ah-ah-ah-AH!


How do five states occupy six places?

[gejohnston]

20. Switzerland and Norway both have lower murder rates than Japan

almost all of their "gun deaths" are suicides.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. You should look at the FBI crime stats. They won't make you happy.

According to the Brady's the worst states for guns are these. The first column Brady point rating the next is FBI murder rate, the next column is the FBI violent crime rate:

Brady Worst States, Several states tied at 2 points.

AK // -2 // 3.1 // 633
AZ // -2 // 5.5 // 408
UT // 0 // 1.3 // 213
ID // 2 // 1.4 //228
MT // 2 // 2.6 //254
With the exception of Arizona those are very low to fairly murder rates. Arizona is a border state with lots of drug trafficking and human trafficking.


Brady Best States
CA // 80 // 5.3 // 472
MA // 65 // 2.6 // 457
NY // 62 // 4.0 // 385
CT // 58 // 3.0 // 297
HI // 50 // 1.7 // 274
With two exceptions those are higher murder rates that the Brady worst states.


jpak fails again.
Now let's look at the FBI best states
VT // 6 // 1.1 // 131
IA //7 // 1.1 // 181
UT // 0 // 1.3 // 313
MN //14 // 1.1 // 244
ND // 4 // 1.5 // 201
WOW! The FBI best states all suck according to Brady, but the murder and crime rates are really low. And they are all flooded with guns. VT even lets every adult pack a gun.

Now let's look at the FBI worst states + DC & Puerto Rico. Brady doesn't list DC & PR but both basically ban guns from private possession.
DC // X // 24 // 1346
PR // X // 22.5 // 264
LA // 2 // 11.8 // 620
NM // 4 // 8.7 // 619
TN // 8 // 7.3 // 668

From this we can see that something else is at work causing high crime rates than just the presence or abscense of guns. But the worst of the worst have gun laws that California antis only dream of.

Please notice that I am counting all murder, not just gun murder. After all, murder is murder, even if the killer used a knife instead.

[gejohnston]

22. Hummmmmmmmm VT ties Japan while DC surpasses Brazil

I know where I am going to escape Rick Scott.

[Remmah2]

13. Once again.

The evil "assault clip" was mentioned.

[lars1701d]

14. I am new here

but I have seen Jpak antics and cant understand why people waste their time trying to reach him?

[rrneck]

16. Others might learn by example.

Personally I suspect he owns a 10,000 square foot gun store. Nobody can make the gun control crowd look that bad by accident. There's a few of 'em here.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[WatsonT]

32. That would make a lot of sense

I'm starting to suspect he doesn't believe the lies he spews.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenStormCloud]

21. We have a severe lack of good opponents.

In fact the lack of good opponents means that we will waste time with anybody. And for the sake of lurkers the things he posts do need to be addressed.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

24. welcome to DU

and I couldn't agree more :toast:

[virginia mountainman]

33. Because...

Someone who is NOT, knowledgeable on the subject matter at hand, may read Jpak's post, and come to a demonstrably false conclusion.

So to protect the folks that don't understand the subject matter, from getting their information from a, shall we say, blatantly biased source, and to protect them, the Innocent from being laughed at when THEY repeat the "bull squeeze" found in the OP.

The facts must be posted. So that they can see, and judge for themselves the truthfulness of the claims made by the OP....

in other words, it is best to "nip it in the bud"..

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. welcome

Everyone needs a hobby. ;)

Have a nice day.

[eqfan592]

15. Because, of course....

..the only deaths that count are gun deaths. People that die from other means are morally superior somehow in jpak land.

[rl6214]

26. Not just jpak land, any one of a dozen here that spout the:

But guns are made to kill meme need to get their heads out of the sand. Their efforts can be put to better use on any of a dozen better causes that don't infringe on the 2a

[krispos42]

23. Oh, and you're including suicides in your numbers

Of course!

[Common Sense Party]

25. Why are Utah and Wyoming in the safest 10 states?

Coincidence?

[gejohnston]

30. I don't know about Utah but while everything is bigger in Texas, everything is better in Wyoming

:)

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

27. post hoc ergo propter hoc

Just google it. {deductive logic required but not included}