5 shot dead, 1 wounded in Yuma, Ariz., murder-suicide

[MyrnaLoy]

Five people were shot dead and one was wounded this morning in and around Yuma, Ariz. Police say the shootings are connected.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/06/5-shot-dead-in-yuma-ariz-schools-locked-down/1?csp=hf

Now as responsible gun owners you want to know if he was a legal gun owner correct? After all we need to know the actual statistics so we can better enforce the laws. You're quick to point out gang bangers and drug wars how about we all be fair and start reporting on legal gun owners who go bad.

[ileus]

1. guns keep on killing.....73yo shooter...that's the really odd thing.

Look at it from the carbon footprint POV and you'll see this is a good thing.

[Hoyt]

2. I think in Arizona this guy could have legally walked down the street with several guns on his belt.

The pro-gun crowd here would have whined if the police had stopped him to check what was going on.

Well, Arizona seems to be a good place to study what happens when the laws are relaxed -- Shady gun show sales, Lougher, this guy, folks hunting immigrants and worse.

[ileus]

3. If OC is legal there's no reason to stop him, unless his behavior warrants it.

[Hoyt]

9. That's why it should be illegal. One who totes a gun is a potential problem and should be questioned

by every policeman that see them. Further, citizens should express their displeasure at one who pollutes society with their guns. Finally, report them to the police -- you never know when they are a Lougher, or have been drinking, or just shot their spouse.

[ileus]

14. good point....LOL

[rl6214]

18. You just keep sounding more and more ridiculous.

[krispos42]

20. Yeah!

And we should have volunteers protest outside of gun stores day and night, harassing customers and staff! They should be waving placards with murder crime scenes printed on them! They should throw themselves on customers trying to get in, begging them to "think of the children"! They should form a human chain around gun stores, preventing customers from entering!


They should take pictures of gun-store owners, customers, the vehicles they drive, the houses they live in, and their families! They should post that information on the internet, along with information such as how many children are killed and who's fault, exactly, it was! They should use terms like "genocide" a lot! And support their positions with Bible quotes and impassioned religious sermons!


YEAH!!!


Too bad names like "Operation Rescue" and "pro-life" are already taken.

[Straw Man]

35. Say what?

That's why it should be illegal. One who totes a gun is a potential problem and should be questioned by every policeman that see them.

But if OC were illegal, then they would be carrying concealed and the policeman wouldn't know to stop them. You didn't really think that one through, did you.

[Remmah2]

42. And every person on a cell phone could be a drug dealer or setting off a remote controlled bomb.

Maybe we could extend the Patriot Act?

Don't believe everything you think.

[Hangingon]

7. What is a " shady gun show sale"?

Does any reputable source report "shady gun show sales"? The BATFE supposed sale for Mexico don't count.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eqfan592]

25. lol, you clearly have never been to one.

I've been to several, and never have I seen any maniacs, nor any guns being sold out of car trunks.

Your bigotry is clearly coloring your view of reality.

[rl6214]

29. Been to a lot of gun shows, worked a few

and I've never seen what you are making up.

[Straw Man]

34. Who? Never done that, never will.

You can retract the slimy accusation any time now.

[lawodevolution]

8. Did you forget to mention that Arizona murder rate is the same as California?

[Hoyt]

10. It's not just murder. Toting hurts society long-term.

[gejohnston]

11. please explain how it hurts society long term?

and try to be specific. BTW, is the word toting a talking point? It is a common anti word and I have never seen it used in this context.

[Starboard Tack]

16. Toting is a synonim of carrying, only shorter and easier to type

Is "anti" a talking point. Everyone is anti something, but the toters like to use it to include every shade of disagreement with their view. No bigotry there.

[rl6214]

19. toting it hoyts veiled attempt at an insult

[Starboard Tack]

27. Why would you think "toter" is an insult? It describes a practise.

I take offense at being painted with the broad brush "anti". You can call me an "anti-toter" because in general I would advocate against toting (Not always). I am against toting all the time everywhere for no apparent reason besides "I never know when you might need it".

[rl6214]

28. See post 21

[oneshooter]

43. Then do you believe that the word"banner" would apply to those

who oppose the 2nd Amendment? Or would it be an insult?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

44. Banner needs to be more specific

Ban all guns?
Ban toting?
Ban just handguns?
Ban high capacity clips?

There are many different variations. I would ban toting in schools and a few other places, but I wouldn't advocate banning all guns or gun ownership.
I think think the 2A needs to be updated. I don't oppose it per se.

Neither term is pejorative IMO. Anti is pejorative, because it lumps everyone together and has a negative connotation.

[MyrnaLoy]

53. and "anti"

is not? Not that I mind, I just find it childish

[beevul]

21. You left out pejorative.

The intent of his usage of it, is crystal clear.

[Starboard Tack]

32. Please explain how the word "toting" could be construed as pejorative?

Regardless of anyone's supposed intent, it is a word which accurately describes the action of carrying. Often used when referring to the carrying of a gun.

tote 1
tr.v. tot·ed, tot·ing, totes Informal
1. To haul; lug.
2. To have on one's person; pack: toting guns.
n.
1. Informal A load; a burden.
2. A tote bag.

tota·ble adj.
toter n.

[rl6214]

33. Pejorative

Pejoratives<1> (or terms of abuse) are words or grammatical forms that connote negativity and express contempt or distaste

[Starboard Tack]

38. OK so how does the word "toting" fit that definition

Where is the negative connotation? Seems you're taking PC to an absurd extreme.

[PavePusher]

45. It's a context/usage issue, not the word itself.

When employed by that user, it is always used in a patronizing, condecending tone. Hence, Pejorative.

[Starboard Tack]

39. To you maybe. I don't see it. What is crystal clear about it?

[Callisto32]

47. At least it isn't as annoying as "promenade" as a once frequent poster used to say...

[X_Digger]

50. "festooned" as it were.. n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

54. I've been known to prance

"prancing about the range " would be more appropriate .

[lawodevolution]

12. Next time you see a felon with a gun robbing a bank be sure to go tell him that

and if a law abiding ccw permit holder pulls out his gun, be sure to take it away from him and hand it to the robber. That would be more honest than trying to get the government to transfer firearms from law abiding to the criminals like in Mexico.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[russ1943]

36. Bullshit alert

Maybe Hoyt forgot to mention that Arizona murder rate is the same as California, because,...... um..... er..... ah..... it ISN’T. According to the FBI’s UCR's, Arizona’s murder rate has been higher than California’s (in the last full year that statistics are available)in 2009 as well as 2008, 2007, 2006 & 2005. I didn’t check further back than that. See Table 5’s Crime in the United States by State, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

[TheWraith]

15. You know Vermont has had even looser laws, pretty much forever, right?

I find it baffling that people still believe the fiction that someone intent on mass murder is going to be dissuaded by the fact that they're violating gun laws.

[rl6214]

17. LoughNer did not buy his gun at a gun show

Do you have any proof this guy did? Do you magically tie every gun crime to gun shows?

[gejohnston]

30. Vermont still has the laxest laws since day one

and Wyoming not too far behind. So what is your point? Or is AZ an easy pot shot because it comes to mind?

[eqfan592]

4. Yes, because all us gun owners on this forum....

....repeatedly said that legal gun owners NEVER go bad and are blameless, holy creatures, right?

Oh wait, that never actually happened.

So exactly what policy suggestions do you have to deal with this situation?

[petronius]

5. That's horribly sad. My thoughts are with the survivor and the families

of the victims (and not on how I can use this tragedy as snarky flamebait)... :thumbsdown:

[PavePusher]

6. +1 Billion. n/t

[right2bfree]

22. News reports that it's 6 dead now. Way to go NRA. NOT!!!

They let a 73 year old man do what he couldnt if he didnt own a gun.

[eqfan592]

24. Firstly, this sort of thing is very rare...

...secondly, multiple stabbings can and have happened many times in the past. Depending on how healthy the guy was, who knows.

If we decided to toss the bill of rights out the window each time somebody abused them, they would have been gone a loooooooong time ago.

[rl6214]

26. How do you tie this to the NRA?

[Euromutt]

41. Try reading the news without confirmation bias

You might notice stories like these:

Newton, MA, Oct 20 2009, "Elderly couple found dead in apparent murder-suicide in Newton"

An 86-year-old man used a knife in what authorities described today as a murder-suicide, fatally stabbing his 86-year-old wife in the neck before cutting his own throat.

Seattle, WA, May 28, 2010, "Ballard man, 74, kills woman, then jumps to his death"

In what police are saying was a murder-suicide, a 74-year-old man beat a woman to death with a hammer and then jumped to his death from an apartment building Thursday night in Ballard

It's perfectly feasible for a senior citizen to commit homicide by means other than a firearm.

[Common Sense Party]

52. Well, those are just fine. Just as long as an evil GUN is not used,

we don't really care about other murders or suicides.

In fact, we encourage non-gun killings.

[Straw Man]

48. Translation: "Guns exist because of the NRA."

In other words, nonsense.

[ileus]

51. You believe that don't you?

[GreenStormCloud]

31. The shooter had a protective order against him.

That give us a hint as to what was already known of his character. According to The Gift of Fear protective orders are often the things that trigger homicidal violence in the offender. Without some steel to back them up that are nothing but paper. The slain people were in AZ. The adults should have armed themselves.

[Straw Man]

37. It says there was an order of protection against him.

This would have made him ineligible to possess a firearm, by federal law. So no, it doen't look as though he was a "legal gun owner."

[Euromutt]

40. How about instead of telling us what *we* think, you tell us what *you* think?

What do you think happened in this instance, why did it happen, and what can be done to prevent similar incidents from occurring?

It looks to me like what we had here was a septuagenarian who saw his life as he knew it destroyed, reckoned he was too old to start over, so he decided to end it, and take the people he saw as having wrecked his old life with him. I'm not sure you can stop a guy like that from killing by making it more difficult for him to possess a firearm.

And as GreenStormCloud noted, the guy was under a TRO, which means it was illegal for him to possess a firearm under the Lautenberg Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. He wasn't a legal gun owner. YOU FAIL - again. N/T

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. Our 'movie star' does not discuss inconvenient truths.

Notice that he no longer comments on Operation Gunwalker?