There are 72 million registered Democrats and only 4 million card carrying NRA members

[jpak]

Why should we fear them?

I don't

yup

[correaman13]

1. they're loud and obnoxious?

Well that makes them more of an annoyance.

Ohh but wait they have tons of guns!

[CelticThunder]

2. I despise the NRA. IMO they are a criminal organization. But they know how to work

their members into a permanent state of gun-hand-twitching fear and paranoia and threatened manhood. That's why they're so successful because so many people fall for that shit like a ton of bricks.

Democrats in office just don't evoke that visceral reaction. Too many of them are corporate-owned (including by the NRA) and only care about feathering their own nests.

[hack89]

4. How are they a criminal organization?

what laws have they broken? What policies that they support promote criminality?

[jpak]

5. They coddle criminals

yup

[PavePusher]

11. Cite to evidence, please.

:rofl:

[jpak]

Opposition to repealing the gun show loophole and backgound checks for private gun sales

Opposition to ATF monitoring of multiple long-gun sales at border state gun shops

Criminal coddling

yup

[gejohnston]

21. one more time

There is no gun show loophole to repeal. Just because Rachel Maddow says so, does not make it so any more than anything by Bill O'Reilley does.
regulating intra state private gun sales would violate the commerce laws. The background check system was the NRA's idea after Brady's was struck down under the ninth Amendment (unfunded burden on the local authorities.)
As for the border states, Do I have to drag out the wikileaks dumps that debunks the legal guns going south bullshit again?

Sorry, if anyone coddles criminals, it is your side.

[jpak]

24. More stupid GOP/NRA talking points

this why they will fail

yup

[gejohnston]

29. repeating yourself does not make it so

any more than the left's version of Glenn Beck repeating it will make it so.
Show me where I am wrong? Show me in any of the federal or state gun control laws that exempt gun shows. Do you ever research anything or do you just make shit up off the top of your head.

[oneshooter]

61. More stupid jpak/Brady Bunch talking points. yup n/t

[eqfan592]

69. Your complete ignorance of the laws in question...

....does not equate to evidence to support your position. GOP/NRA talking points or no, they are FACT. You can ignore it all you want, but it doesn't change them. And all you do is make yourself like dumber and dumber by carrying on this way, and the same goes for RM.

[jpak]

73. The gun show loophole exists - it is (((((((real)))))))

The GOP House voted to prevent the ATF from monitoring multiple long gun sales in US Mexicacn border states

Criminal coddling ((((((REALITY))))))

yup

[eqfan592]

76. WTF are you talking about?!?!?!

First of all, the law you are talking about would appear to target all firearm sales, not just gun show sales. Secondly, what evidence do you have that such a law would even have had the intended impact?

There is NO FUCKING LOOPHOLE! A loophole implies that at a gun show there is some means of conducting a transaction that would have been otherwise illegal. THIS IS NOT THE CASE! At BEST you could say there is a "private seller" loophole, but that has a LOT more impact outside of just firearms, to say the least. Either way though, the gun show loophole is a manufactured fantasy that only exists in the minds of those incapable of understanding the legal realities of the situation.

End of fucking story.

[NewMoonTherian]

125. This is interesting..

but I'm unclear on a couple of things.

Did the GOP make this vote preemptively, or was it in response to something the ATF was already doing or planning?

Did the GOP vote to prevent monitoring SPECIFICALLY in border states, or in ALL states?

Can you provide links so I can review the issue myself? I haven't been following the national gun debate lately.

[lawodevolution]

54. Jpak, is it not your view that women should be disarmed in public thereby resulting in making sure

that only the rapist has the ability to overpower the other person? It seems like you directly support criminals and you falsely accuse others of doing so.

[jpak]

62. Fear mongering is NRA job 1

yup

[eqfan592]

70. Wearing blinders to reality...

....is job number one for jpak and the Brady Campaign.

yup

[Euromutt]

106. You're no slouch yourself on that point

I mean, what's the purpose of claiming the NRA "coddles criminals" if not to exploit people's fear of violent crime?

[Union Scribe]

122. Aye

That and his waving every blood-stained news article he seeks out.

[lawodevolution]

130. Jpak, all you do on this forum is fear mongering. Ugh Ohh those big bad gun owners

Are going to get you!!!

[NewMoonTherian]

109. In my opinion, that falls more under the heading of protecting innocent citizens...

but as we're dealing in opinion anyway, right on man.

[PavePusher]

13. "threatened manhood"?

I guess that explains the female members...

:eyes:

[gejohnston]

28. I despise the Brady Campaign even more.

They are an astro turf collection of Republicans funded by a couple of rich people who con liberals to do their dirty work. They are more effective at lining their pockets and promoting regional bigotry among liberals that piss rural and working people off and push them to the Republicans. Their idea of an argument is to string together a bunch of logical fallacies, fake statistics, and ad hominem attacks about manhood and call it an argument. They hysterically whine about blood in the streets that is always proven wrong.

Your post is the perfect example. Fact free ad hominem attacks on forty percent of Americans, 30 percent of Canadians, 52 percent of the Finns, and 35 percent of all Norwegians. Of course, you will blame those same people for not voting "what's best for them".

[damntexdem]

51. I wouldn't call them a criminal organization, though perhaps criminally insane.

No, they're doing their best to destroy this country through arguably-legal means.

[WatsonT]

121. The worst kind of criminals too!!

Those who stand by the constitution and break no laws.

Almost as bad as that nefarious ACLU.

[Abq_Sarah]

3. You don't need to fear them

You need to fear the Democrats who are supportive of the 2nd amendment.

[jpak]

7. The vast majority of American homes do not have guns

and they oppose the GOP/NRA agenda

yup

[gejohnston]

16. Nope

because they see it as scapegoating law abiding target shooters and hunters on drug gangs.

[Glassunion]

22. "The vast majority of American homes do not have guns"

I'm afraid you are mistaken. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#general

About 40 to 45% of American households have a firearm. Hardly a "vast majority".

[rfranklin]

35. No, just a "solid majority"

but the NRA would certainly love to have everyone carrying.

[eqfan592]

77. No, it wouldn't

Unless you have evidence that the NRA wants literally everyone carrying a firearm, then exactly wtf are you talking about?

[rfranklin]

93. Well it's you who doesn't know wtf you're talking about...

From the NRA Facebook page: "Ultimately the more people who own guns for whatever reason (self-defense, hunting, target shooting etc), the stronger NRA and the Second Amendment will be in this country."

I would say that's a desire to have everyone own a gun.

[eqfan592]

107. No where in that statement...

....do I see criminals or the mentally ill mentioned. So no, not really "Everyone" at all. Now if you want to say that they do encourage all those who are both legally eligible to own a firearm and have a desire to do so to purchase one, then yes, I would agree, that is in fact something the NRA is striving for.

[lawodevolution]

41. A large percent of gun owners lie or refuse to participate in these surveys.

Most people who support the NRA are not paying for membership.

[rfranklin]

91. The Silent Majority...hmmm. where did I hear that before?

Oh yeah, it was former President Richard Nixon, wasn't it?

[eqfan592]

92. Given that nobody mentioned the phrase here...

....I fail to see your reasoning for bringing it up in the first place.

[rfranklin]

95. You are ignorant of the history of that phrase....

It was coined to promote the idea that there was all kinds of support for unpopular policies such as the Vietnam War but those who supported them were shy about speaking to pollsters. Get it now?

[eqfan592]

108. lol, I know the history of the phrase.

However saying there is "silent support" for those causes and saying that there are many who don't wish to divulge private information to the government are NOT one in the same.

But hey, nice try.

[rfranklin]

110. Well, I guess you would know more about the paranoids amongst us than I...

since I am one of those people who doesn't worry about jackbooted government thugs trying to take away my gun.

P.S. -- all those people who don't admit to owning a gun...an NRA fantasy.

[eqfan592]

116. LOL...

....so in once sentence, you accuse those of not responding to the survey as being overly paranoid, then in the next sentence say you don't think they exist. So are you saying that people that don't exist are overly paranoid?

Maybe you should get your own shit straightened out before you start tossing around insults.

EDIT: Also, see posts 50 and 111.

[Philippine expat]

120. But the vast majority of Americans

agree with the peoples right to keep and bear arms

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. orly

:eyes:

[gejohnston]

14. You mean like Howard Dean?

Brian Schweitzer?

How about Republicans that do not support the second amendment?
Paul Helmke
Sarah Brady
Rudy Giuliani
Ronald Reagan
Bill Bennett
Josh Sugarmann

[obxhead]

15. Really? We need to fear law abiding Democrats who support the

2nd Amendment?

I had no idea.

[Abq_Sarah]

26. You do if you want to pass

Laws restricting the rights of firearms owners.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

79. per your post #3 ---

"You need to fear the Democrats who are supportive of the 2nd amendment."

those are your exact words.

not understanding your intention.

care to clarify?

[Abq_Sarah]

113. We support the second amendment

And we vote. The NRA is nothing but a distraction and a bogeyman. Any politician who wants to restrict firearms ownership has more to fear from those of us who actually vote vs the lobbying arm of the NRA.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

119. got it. thanks for clarifying.

[RSillsbee]

53. I more fear Democrats who DON'T support the second amendment NT

[eqfan592]

71. You only have need to fear us.....

....if you fear losing your own ignorance on the issue.

[X_Digger]

6. And there are 80M gun owners..

Some portion of the 72M democrats are NRA members.

Some portion of those 80M gun owners are NRA members.

Some portion of the 280M non-gun owners have family and friends who are.

The world isn't as black and white as you wish it to be.

[jpak]

9. The GOP/NRA sucks

black and white is is

yup

[X_Digger]

20. LOL, thanks for giving me an example of the simplistic thinking I was talking about. n/t

[jpak]

25. Yeah, only 25% of Americans own guns

that's why we fear the gun lobby

yup

[X_Digger]

33. *snort* keep dreaming

How many voters consider gun issues- either pro or con? And which group has a vested interest in their position?

So sad for you.

[Euromutt]

104. It is a much larger percentage of Americans eligible and registered to vote

Factor in that that the NRA-PVF is a highly effective "get out the vote" machine, and the NRA membership has an effect well out of proportion to its numbers.

[PavePusher]

10. And some people belong to both.

:hi:

They are not mutually incompatible.

[jpak]

12. So who gets your vote - the Democratic Party or the NRA?

:shrug:

[DonP]

19. In spite of your posturing, it's not an "either or" proposition.

The NRA mind control rays don't reach all of our homes yet.

You can belong to the NRA and still vote the way you choose to, even those of us with "A" rated Dem candidates. Imagine that?

[PavePusher]

27. Generally, the person who best matches my political ideals.

The real world isn't as binary as you imply.

[gejohnston]

32. If Howard Dean would have won the nomination

I would be voting for both at once, and would have a real progressive in the white house.

[Euromutt]

105. Heck, I wrote in Bill Richardson in 2008

Admittedly, only after I'd made as certain as I could be that McCain wasn't going to carry Washington state.

[DonP]

17. Don't need to fear "them" - since some of us are them

But any group of 4.5 million voters with families that vote, and may be an indicator of the other 80 million gun owners voting trends, deserves to be paid attention to unless you are truly stupid as far as electoral politics goes at the National level.

Unlike that little tiny gun control movement that you can't find with a microscope as far as voting clout goes.

Psst, politicians don't care what you do or don't fear, what they care about are voting blocs. Fudds are a distinct minority in the firearms world anyway.

[spin]

18. 4 in 10 Americans report they have a gun in their homes ...

Gun Ownership and Use in America
November 22, 2005

The poll, conducted Oct. 13-16, finds that 4 in 10 Americans report they have a gun in their homes, including 30% who say they personally own a gun and 12% who say another member of their household owns it. These results show essentially no change since this question was last asked in 2000. At that time, 27% of Americans said they personally owned a gun and 14% said another household member owned one.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/gun-ownership-use-america.aspx

If 23% of 72 million Democrats personally own firearms then 16,560,000 have money and time invested in firearms and are more likely to show up at the polls to vote against any draconian gun laws, bans or confiscations that those who oppose RKBA can create. Add the Democrats who live in a home with a firearm owner and probably also oppose oppressive gun gun control and you have possibly as many as 23,760,000 Democrats who do not agree with your views on gun control.

Those Democrats who do not own firearms may want stronger gun control but since they have no money invested in the issue, they are less likely to show up at the polls support for new laws, bans or confiscations.

There is no reason to "fear" the NRA but you do need to show some respect for the power of the gun owner voting block. Here is a visual example of this power.

[jpak]

23. Obama offended the hive with his " they get bitter, they cling to guns" statement

and got elected by a landslide = so much for the vaunted power of the gun lobby

Moreover, the ongoing GOP/NRA over-reach on gun issues at the state level IS producing a backlash - and especially with open carry in California -and guns on campus bills in other states.

Poor NRA - they are about to get smacked down in 2012 - hard.

yup

[gejohnston]

30. Jobs the economy

will smack the GOP, not guns.
Since these laws that you are defending were written and enacted by the same GOP, why are you defending them now?

[jpak]

36. Yeah - while the GOP/NRA is passing stupid open carry everywhere/guns on campus bills

that economy falters - these stupid gun bills do not create jobs and Democrats should not be afraid to oppose them.

The vast majority of the American public do not want them.

GOP/NRA/Teabagger fail

yup

[gejohnston]

58. laws passed by GOP plutocrats

to protect their goons from union organizers and civil rights workers over 100 years ago. I bet you think South Carolina's handgun ban (and other strict gun laws in the south)was the work of civil rights organizations trying to disarm the Klan don't you?

[DWC]

65. jpak must be feeling the pressure

When ridiculing the NRA was not working he went to trying to tie the repubs to the NRA and calling it the GOP/NRA. When that did not work he has now tried to tie the repubs and homosexuals to the NRA with GOP/NRA/Teabaggers.

Just who is s/he trying to ridicule anyway?

Alinsky's Rule #5 fails again.

Semper Fi,

[jpak]

74. Let me make it simple - teabaggers suck

the NRA sucks

and

the GOP sucks

any questions?

:)

[RSillsbee]

99. Well, you are 2/3s right on this one I'll give you that NT

[DWC]

100. "Teabaggers suck". Congratulations, you finally got one right n/t

[gejohnston]

31. you forgot the Bible part of the speech

seriously, get a clue.

[spin]

40. People were SICK of Bush the Junior and Republicans after 8years ...

and the Republican candidate, John McCain was not well loved by gun owners and only had a C+ rating from the NRA. Ref: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html McCain also ran a poor campaign and made a terrible choice for his vice presidential choice.

Obama offered "real change" and had charisma. Obama ran a great campaign.

In reality any candidate the the Democrats could have run would have won that race.

But you didn't realize that my post wasn't about the Residential election but more about local and state elections and issues. That's why I posted the right to carry map. The people in all those "shall issue" states either voted on allowing concealed carry or elected officials who created the legislation to create less restrictive concealed carry.

How many states do you believe will revoke concealed carry in the next few elections?

[ileus]

55. No one has announced running on the NRA ticket in 2012 that I know of.

[jpak]

59. Most of the potential GOP candidates spoke (live/video) at this year's NRA national convention

Dems - not so much

yup

[jpak]

38. Sorry only 21% of Americans personally own guns - 32% of all households

US gun ownership is declining - rapidly

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Gun_Ownership_in_US_Declining_110429

Bad news for the NRA

fuck 'em

yup

[spin]

46. In all fairness many more Americans own firearms than either Gallup or

the NORC statistics show.

Just pick up a phone and call some random people in an area where gun ownership is common. Tell them you are taking a survey for the jpak research organization and ask them if they own firearms or live in a house with someone who owns firearms.

Half the gun owners will lie to you and the other half will probably tell you to fuck off.

[petronius]

72. Which is the half that recognizes the name?

:D

[DonP]

90. LOL!! ntxt

[lawodevolution]

50. Gun ownership is expanding. The trend you see in surveys is that gun owners trust the

government less than ever. I know a lot of people who in the past would not have owned guns who now do. Gun ownership will soon be expanded into the 2A oppression zones. You can keep telling yourself that millions of Americans are dumping their guns on the market and ignore the fact that many guns are difficult to find now in the used market and gun manufacturers have had to rev up production to meet demand. If gun ownership were in decline like you say the used gun market would be flooded and guns would be worth less than a hundred bucks each due to overproduction. In the real world the increase in gun purchases has been largely due to new first time gun owners while the reduction of gun ownership reported on surveys has been due to an increased mistrust of the government.

[jpak]

60. No it is not - it's been declining for decades

yup

[eqfan592]

78. Wow, way to just ignore the completely...

..valid points that blasted massive holes in your theory and just regurgitate the same line again. That time you must have spent on the debate team clearly paid off!!

[Euromutt]

111. Well, the percentage of households *reporting* owning guns may be declining...

...but there was a study published in 1995 that found that 10.3% of respondents known to hold hunting licenses, and 12.7% of respondents known to have a handgun registered to them (the study was conducted in Michigan), denied owning firearms when interviewed (Rafferty, Ann P. et al. "Validity of a household gun question in a telephone survey." Public Health Reports. May-June 1995 v110 n3 p282(7)). It's a fairly safe bet that any results from a self-reporting survey is going to undercount the actual number of gun owners.

[tortoise1956]

114. Nope

The percentage of households with guns has stayed relatively constant since 1998 (overall change ~11%). the number of Americans who personally own guns has declined even less than that since 1998.

So, it is definitely NOT declining rapidly.

Yup

[Logical]

34. Some of us here, like me, hate the NRA as much as you do! They are a right.....

wing bunch of nuts who scare people to get funds. They want the public scared of Obama because it gets them money.

Maybe in 30 years it will become less right wing but now there is no way they want to look unbiased because most their membership is right wing GOP idiots.

[safeinOhio]

37. Your are right. What the NRA and Wayne Lapierre Claim.

http://factcheck.org/2008/09/nra-targets-obama/
Obama's secret 10 point plan to change the 2nd Amendment.

Now they are starting the same crap against for 2012.

The fact is, Obama has showed more support for the 2nd in his actions than John Kasich, yet Kasich got moved to a B- just before his election and Obama's rating stays an F. Until the NRA gives Obama a better rating, like they did Kasich, I consider them a right-wing racist organization.

[Logical]

42. I agree, Obama has not been anti-gun and yet the NRA claims....

Obama is the most anti-gun president in history. They are a joke.

[jpak]

39. Agreed

:hi:

[Logical]

45. We agree on some things!! :-)

[gejohnston]

44. at least the current leadership at least

If that faction is kicked out by a counter revolt by the traditionalist/environmentalists, like the hardliners did in Cincinnati in 1977.

[Logical]

47. I have written the NRA many times to ask that they get away from being....

so anti-dem and from having nutty right wing offensive GOP speakers (Palin, Gingrich, Nugent, etc). I have not got a response yet.

[gejohnston]

49. And you won't because

Wayne puts a lot of the money rolling in his pocket. The only thing NRA did in the Heller case was get in the way and then try to take credit for it for fund raising. Wayne and Nugent are as loony tunes as their speakers (how did Nugent get elected to the board?)

[ileus]

43. One would think with 72 million grabber votes, the second would already be history.

[spin]

48. Yup but nope. (n/t)

[ileus]

52. You man all of us 72 million democrats aren't anti-second??? cant' be...jpac said

[spin]

56. Yup. A whole bunch of us believe in RKBA (n/t)

[friendly_iconoclast]

57. Don't be down on jpak. They gave me a *great* idea!:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x426893

When one raises a question, one shouldn't be too surprised when other questions come to mind...

[benEzra]

63. The NRA is only 4 million members out of 80+ million gun owners,

the latter including the following overlapping categories:

40+ million owners of over-10-round magazines you want to criminalize;
40-60 million handgun owners;
20-25 million "assault weapon" owners;
13-16 million hunters.

Those numbers are the ones that you should worry about at the polls, particularly since roughly half of those registered to vote are Dems or independents. If the NRA disappeared tomorrow, the pro-gun political landscape wouldn't change much.

How many dues-paying members does the Brady Campaign have, hmmmm? The VPC? LCGV? SHV? All of them combined?

[safeinOhio]

64. One reason many progressives and Democrats won't

support the NRA is because they don't want to join in with Jesse Rogers
 Imperial Night Hawk
 Knight Riders, Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan.

http://knightriderskkkk.org

"The Knight Riders, Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan PROUDLY Support the NRA. The Knight Riders are PROUD to Assist Law Enforcement in the PREVENTION of Criminal Activities in Neighborhoods and Towns. We Are a Non-Violent Christian Fraternal Order, All Members of the KnightRiders Are Law Abiding Citizens and Are Free of Drugs. WE, OBEY THE LAW and WE DO EXERCISE OUR RIGHTS AS WHITE CITIZENS of The United States Of America. It is NOT ILLEGAL TO BE PROUD THAT YOU ARE WHITE, always Remember that!!

Thanks and GOD BLESS!!!
"

Jesse Rogers
 Imperial Night Hawk
 Knight Riders, Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan

[X_Digger]

66. Ooh, look an association fallacy.

And hitler was a vegetarian..

[Glassunion]

68. Fuck lima beans!

[X_Digger]

81. *green* beans, damn you :) n/t

[oneshooter]

118. GREEN LIMA BEANS!!! n/t

[safeinOhio]

85. It would fall under that fallacy if

only the NRA would join others in denouncing the KKK and other racist para-military orgs.

[X_Digger]

98. And planned parenthood has never denounced the KKK either..

Yet the KKK supports aborting black fetuses.

See how that works? "KKK agrees with X" and "X hasn't denounced KKK" somehow is supposed to tar "X" with the KKK.


Take a class in logic, please.

[GreenStormCloud]

103. Ignoring such grouops is more effective.

If you are a major organization and take the time to denouce them you give them greater visibility and a headline. You don't see Obama railing against the KKK. Instead he properly acts as if they don't exist.

[Euromutt]

112. Actually, he wasn't

At least, not as a matter of principle. Hitler had some gastric condition and his doctor instructed him to avoid meat, but he wasn't opposed to its consumption, and I'm told there was some (curiously German) pork liver dish of which he was particularly fond.

He was, however, vehemently opposed to smoking.

[Glassunion]

67. Question

Does the NRA support the Imperial Night Hawk
 Knight Riders, Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan?

The text you posted says that the KRKKK supports the NRA, but nothing about it being the other way around.

Using the same logic that you expressed, how should we feel about the ACLU, Visa, MasterCard, The DOT in Missouri, Kraft Foods, Facebook, GMail, Twitter, Michael Moore, The Patriot Guard Riders, etc...? Just like the NRA, these groups, companies and individuals have found themselves on the same side of the fence as the KKK and in some cases supported by them.

[safeinOhio]

80. NRA's Hedge on Militias

Citizen militias are not new. After the conscript militias of the 18th and early 19th centuries fell into disuse, voluntary militias formed and persisted through the end of the 19th century. Where these militias formed the officers were commissioned by the state governments. They were not extralegal. See Jerry Cooper, The Rise of the National Guard (1997), Chap. 1. Historically, the Ku Klux Klan has been an extralegal citizen militia. The Minutemen were a rightwing citizen militia in the 1950s and 1960s. The Minutemen disappeared by the 1970s, but, because the distinction between gun ownership within the rule of law and outside the rule of law was never raised and settled back then, we have now a government with no concept of itself as a government and the next generation of rightwing paramilitary forces in our midst now. Extralegal private armies acting out the NRA's armed populace fantasy, are a great embarrassment to the NRA, but it has to state a position. The Potowmack Institute comments on it below. What emerges is confusing, and up until now unexamined, sophistry.


Great article on the NRA's refusal to denounce right-wing para-military groups like the KKK and how they use them to promote their views with fear and hate.

Everyone here challenges me to show proof that the NRA supports these groups. Show me where they denounce any of them or their rights to organize against the US government. In fact they use them for their own agenda.. read whole article.


http://www.potowmack.org/197nra.html

[X_Digger]

83. That's not an answer, I notice. hrmm. n/t

[PuffedMica]

75. The KKK opposes the Westboro Baptist Church

Does that imply that entities that oppose the Westboro Baptist Church support the KKK?

[safeinOhio]

82. The KKK

also opposes the Westboro Baptist Church and have demonstrated against them.

http://news.change.org/stories/the-death-of-the-westboro-baptist-church

so your point is?

[X_Digger]

84. The point is that your association fallacy blew up in your face.

I hope you've learned your lesson.

[safeinOhio]

86. Opinions are like ass holes

everybody has one.

Show me how the NRA has distanced, or tried to distance itself from from any racist armed group?

[gejohnston]

88. Did anyone tell the NRA or

did they do it on a Friday? With Ted Nugent, anything is possible.

[X_Digger]

94. How about their very formation, silly?

Having one president of the NRA sign the 'Klan Act'- then sending troops to the south to arrest some 5,000 klansmen.. that's not enough, eh? (Ulysses S. Grant)

Having another NRA president remove the governors of Texas and Louisiana for failing to suppress the klan? Not enough, apparently (Gen. Phillip Sheridan)

Supporting the formation of 21 local chapters of the Deacons for Defense and Justice in the south during the civil rights struggle? No, not enough.

Your association fallacy, it fell down and can't get back up.


Try harder next time. Or maybe, just possibly.. come back with actual logic not asinine fallacies, eh?

[safeinOhio]

126. Read you own rules

Description of Appeal to Ridicule

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:

X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
Therefore claim C is false.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"

"Or maybe, just possibly.. come back with actual logic not asinine fallacies, eh?"

epic fail

:rofl:

[X_Digger]

127. Ridicule wasn't part of my argument- you get that for free.

Honestly, you need to learn to *apply* these things better.

[gejohnston]

87. Man, I'm screwed

or stuck in a paradox, be cause I can't stand either one of them

[PuffedMica]

101. The null set is a valid answer to the question

[safeinOhio]

89. Statements by 2 NRA Board members

Examine the following statements: "The consensus is that no more than five to ten people killed by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society." And "It would seem a valuable social service to keep 'them' well-supplied with ammunition!"
-Jeff Cooper, NRA board member.

"Blacks still put bones in their noses, they still walk around naked, wipe their butts with their hands. You give 'em toothpaste, they f*cking eat it!"
-Ted Nugent, NRA board member.


Yup, must be some one of those fallacy thingys going on there.

[gejohnston]

97. Jeff Cooper is dead.

He may not have been referring to race, but rather gang soldiers killing each other. I have heard and read similar comments about the mob and motorcycle gangs like the Hell's Angels, which are all white. On the other hand, he may have been a racist. I read a few of his articles about gun advice and that is all I really know about him.
Ted Nugent is Ted Nugent. Either way, what does it have to do with any of us? It is kind of like saying Hitler was a vegetarian, Thom Hartmann is a vegetarian, therefore...you get the picture.

[safeinOhio]

102. What does it have to do with any of us?

It all goes back to "Obama's 10 point secret plan to take away your guns". Fear to get members and donations for their agenda and power. With Board members like Grover Norquist, it's all about getting the middle class to vote against it's own interest using the tea party, american family org and the nra to do their bidding.

[gejohnston]

115. Grover Norquist?

I never had him as a gun person any more than I could picture Sarah Palin as a history teacher.

:wtf: :wow:

[safeinOhio]

117. Yup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist

Norquist is a member of the board of directors of the National Rifle Association,<24> the American Conservative Union,<2> as well as the Advisory Council of GOProud,<25>.

[Kurska]

96. You're assuming the two are mutually exclusive n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

123. I don't either. What is your point?

I don't have to be an NRA member, to support the 2A.

[krispos42]

124. And how many card-carrying Democrats...

...that are anti-gun?

[Kolesar]

128. What is "anti gun"

besides a vague and loaded statement?

[oneshooter]

129. Look in the mirror. n/t

[krispos42]

131. Like the term "assault weapon"?

I think it's a person that believes that non-military/non-LEO ownership of guns is a societal negative. This person believes, IMO, that the "public safety" standard of limitation of civil rights allows extremely strict regulation of firearm ownership and use. This person may alternatively believe that firearm ownership is not a right but a privilege, to be grudgingly given and eagerly rescinded.

Regardless, this person believes it is a societal good if the people enact regulations that not only potentially increase safety (e.g., background checks, waiting periods, magazine capacity limits, mandatory trigger locks, etc.) but to also enact regulations to make gun ownership burdensome and discouraging (e.g., strict licensing, slow paperwork processing, in-home checks by police, expensive permitting , tight limits on transportation and storage, purchasing limits, etc.)

[Kolesar]

132. So what are you trying to say with your question?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=426806&mesg_id=427306

[krispos42]

133. That I don't think "anti-gun" is necessarily a perjorative.

I tried to give a neutral definition above, which you did not comment on.


But there are arbitrary, inflammatory, and pejorative terms aplenty in political discourse, and on both sides.