If Florida really wants to keep kids safe

[drpepper67]

They should make swimming classes mandatory.

More kids drown every year than are killed by guns.

[sharesunited]

1. If you're referring to the law which prohibits pediatricians from asking about guns in the home

that now prohibited practice didn't mandate anyone to do anything.

The law interferes with speech, professional responsibility, and conscience.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Thing is, the paranoids think the physicians are collecting the data

to turn over to the jackboot ATF so they can swoop down and take their guns away.

It has NOTHING to do with keeping kids safe.

Know what? RATIONAL people, when asked by a doctor about guns around the kids tell the doctor "yeah, I know. I keep em locked up - no way the kids can get at em" and that's the end of it.

[rl6214]

5. Rational doctors do NOT drop the kid as a patient

if the parent refuses to answer the question about guns.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Would you expect a doctor to drop a kid as a patient if the parent

refuses to answer a question about immunizations? About pets in the home?

It is a legitimate question that concerns health risks to the child. If the parent won't cooperate with the doctor, what do you expect the doctor to do?

[rl6214]

8. Absolutely not. If the parent refuses to answer a question

you should do your best to educate the parent on the importance of immunizations or pets if possible but you don't drop the kid as a patient. Again, if the doctor is going to ask about firearms they must first ask about the dozen or so other causes of death up the list from guns.

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. And who says they are NOT asking about those other risks?

And if a doctor is allowed to educate the parent on the importance of immunization or the danger of spreading salmonella from pets, why should they NOT be allowed to mention guns? Are they ALSO forbidden to mention the dangers of running with scissors?

It is by asking the questions that they ascertain the potential dangers - "Do you have any pets? A lizard in a terrarium? Did you know that reptiles spread salmonella?" "Do the kids have access to firearms? Are you aware of the accident rate of children who get ahold of weapons that their parents thought were hidden or secured?"

What, exactly, is the difference between the two? Why should one of those questions be illegal?

[petronius]

10. I suppose if a doctor 'fired' a patient over refusing to answer whether or not she owned a lizard,

and if the lizard lobby had any power, we might be discussing that law. Personally, I'll condemn equally any doctor who dumps a patient over a non-medical, social/political issue, whatever it is.

One point about the law is that it doesn't forbid doctors from distributing information in any way, shape, or form. It only forbids them from asking about gun ownership. So, a doctor is still free to ask "would you like to discuss firearm storage and safety?" or the equivalent...

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Kids getting shot IS a medical issue. nt

[eqfan592]

14. So is a kid getting poisoned...

...or drowning, or falling off a balcony, etc. Yet I doubt a doctor would react in the manner as the doctor in question to any of those other situations as they did to a gun. And does a doctor really need to ask a patient about their gun ownership in order to offer safety information?

But again, if it was just safety info the doc in question cared about, then they wouldn't have asked the patient to find a new doctor, would they? This is about bigotry, pure and simple, as well as violations of privacy that are not necessary.

[Hoyt]

16. "Bigotry" -- hardly. The doc gave the mother 30 days to find another pediatrician.

That is standard and is not withholding treatment.

Gunners just can't stand it when they have to face the fact that the majority of Americans do not share their love and obsession with the friggin things.

[Straw Man]

18. Getting two weeks' notice is "standard practice" too, but it still means you got fired.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[eqfan592]

24. lol, so giving fair notice...

...that you are about to do something bigoted makes it not bigotry any more? Now THAT is a fascinating position to hold.

Being an owner of something (or even multiple somethings) does not make one "obsessed" with that something. That you think it does in the case of firearms only underscores your own irrationality on the subject.

[DanTex]

26. Exactly.

It's not like the doctor quit in the middle of surgery and let the patient bleed to death. When a doctor doesn't feel he/she can provide adequate care (in this case because he felt a lack of trust), the correct thing is for the patient to find another doctor. In fact, I would imagine this sort of thing is not all that unusual.

Moreover, if I thought my doctor was a bigot, it would be me firing my doctor, and not vice versa.

Of course, in this case the patient was apparently part of that delicately endangered group that requires constant coddling: a paranoid gun owner. It seems to me that a referral to a psychiatrist would have been more appropriate. But then I'm not a doctor, so, as with the Terry Schiavo case, I'd just as soon let medical professionals work this stuff out, without ideologically driven interventions by right-wingers in government.

[Straw Man]

28. The doctor "felt a lack of trust"?

And this meant that he/she could no longer "provide adequate care"? I'm wondering which is the "delicately endangered group that requires constant coddling."

[DanTex]

27. Actually, if a patient refused to answer a question about poisons

or balconies, or whatever, I think it is not at all out of the question that the doctor would feel a lack of trust in the doctor/patient relationship, and then suggest that the patient would be better served by seeing someone else.

I'm sure stuff like this happens all the time. And, it's probably a good thing. If doctors doesn't feel like they can provide quality care for whatever reason, I would argue they are basically obligated to let the patient know and tell them to find someone else. We probably just don't hear about other similar cases, because if don't involve guns, then the NRA can't use them to foment paranoia.

[petronius]

15. A bullet wound is a medical issue - ownership of guns, lizards, scissors, pools,

etc is not.

But it doesn't really matter - doctors can still provide as much safety information on any of those topics as they see fit and the patient wishes to receive...

[krispos42]

21. Yeah, a trauma issue. Not a routine physical issue. n/t

[krispos42]

20. Bad analogy

Immunizations and pets can directly affect unrelated health-care treatment. "I need to know if your son got Immunization X before I can choose between Drug A and Drug B", for example.


Unless the kid has a gunshot wound or showing symptoms of lead poisoning (sucking on the ammo), dropping the patient who didn't answer a gun question is analagous to dropping the patient because the parent didn't answer if they had a pool or a flight of stairs.

[Straw Man]

19. Paranoids?

Know what? RATIONAL people, when asked by a doctor about guns around the kids tell the doctor "yeah, I know. I keep em locked up - no way the kids can get at em" and that's the end of it.

The American Academy of Pediatrics is very open about its opposition to gun ownership:

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/all-around/Pages/Gun-Safety-Keeping-Children-Safe.aspx

They are propagandizing -- trying to guilt-trip parents into getting rid of their guns. I can see why people would resent this attitude. It's arrogant and patronizing. It makes lifestyle judgments and starts from the basic assumption that gun owners are unfit parents.

[rl6214]

4. Bullshit

The only way it interferes with speech is to remove the ability for the doctor to preach his gun control stance to his patients.

He has no professional responsibility to preach gun control and

His conscience, well again that's just his extreme views and don't try to spout any bullshit about wanting kids to be safe, if he did he would start at the top of the list of things that kill kids, not towards the bottom.

[rl6214]

3. You are either preaching to the choir or

your comments will fall on deaf ears depending on which side of the issue reads this thread.

K&R

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Right.

Same old crapola, different messenger.

[eqfan592]

13. Oh really?

You think the CDC is fudging the statistical data to show that more kids die from drowning than from accidental discharges of firearms? Interesting....

[Logical]

11. And our doctor asked about pools and trampolines. I guess Florida would be OK with that. n-r

[lawodevolution]

17. Self delete

.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. pamphlets in the waiting area and exam rooms. if there is a question

then the doc can discuss it.

and patients lie to docs all the time about everything anyway.

[DanTex]

23. Or at least they should allow doctors to ask patients about safety risks like guns and pools...

Given how dangerous pools are to young kids, I think pediatricians should clearly not be prohibited by state law from asking questions about swimming pools.

Obviously, the National Swimming Pool Association would want to strictly regulate anything that a doctor is allowed to say about the dangers of swimming pools. Not to mention the National Running With Sharp Objects Association or the National Getting Drunk Around Your Kids Association.

But letting right-wing political groups intervene in the free speech of medical professionals during doctor-patient discussions would be pretty insane, not to mention creepy...

[eqfan592]

25. Telling a doctor that they....

...cannot violate the privacy of their patients in a manner that does not relate directly to medical issues as a prerequisite for care is hardly a "free speech issue" no matter how hard you want to try and make it so. Nothing is stopping the doctors from distributing information about firearm safety.

This law would not have been necessary if not for the irrational and bigoted actions of the doctor in question. I doubt many doctors would stop seeing their patients over the fact that the parents owned a pool, in spite of the fact that more children are killed by accidental drowning than by accidental discharge of a firearm. Thus one must conclude that the doctor must have a particular level of bigotry reserved for firearm owners in that he singles them out over others.