"Fast and Furious" - Congressional hearing - live on C-SPAN

[Tejas]

"Federal Gun Smuggling Sting Operation"

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/

[Tejas]

1. 5 people bought 3/4 of the guns.

Seems ATF could have stopped approximately 1,200 guns from walking into Mexico........







by arresting 5 people.

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. But that would be putting crimefighting above publicity (and appropriation) seeking.

And they weren't having any of that.

[Tejas]

4. "publicity"

Call me crazy, but one could say publicity/appropriations wasn't the main mission by ATF in executing F&F.

Shooomey - I want a gun ban.

Holdout - How bad do you want it?

Shooomey - Bad.

Holdout - I can help.

Shoomey - que?

Holdout - I'll have my guys direct FFL's in the border states to let strawmen buy 50 cals, the 50's will eventually be recovered at crime scenes in Mexico.

Shoomey - Really?

Holdout - A few press releases, some pics of guns, US guns get blamed and you're good to go.

Shoomey - You can pull that off?

Holdout - You don't get out much, do you?

[TheWraith]

3. That certainly seems to undercut the idea of widespread smuggling going on.

If 5 people were responsible for 3/4 of the guns they monitored, then it seems to have been small and fairly centralized. I'm guessing these guys were either supplying some of the smaller gangs which can't buy internationally or from the military the way the cartels can, or they were feeding the stuff directly onto the black market for civilians to buy.

[Tejas]

6. Good point.

For cartels in the north of Mexico, maybe much easier and economical to buy local, instead of dealing with international shipping and all which that entails. Local as in a 200 mile (or less) shipment from across the border that stays in your control instead of from the southern border of Mexico. That would save your goods from having to be transported through enemy/other cartel territory.

[jpak]

5. but...but...but... the GOP/NRA sez that NO US guns EVER go to Mexico

nevermind

yup

[Tejas]

7. cite please?

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Actually, they never did say that- but accuracy never was much of a concern of yours

Gotta keep those faith-promoting rumors flying!

[Tejas]

9. s/he is scrambling to put the cat back in the bag.

jpak has got to catch it first, and that isn't going to happen.

[spin]

12. As usual you exaggerate ...

It has been often pointed out here in the Gungeon that the cartels do not get fully automatic assault rifles, rocket launchers and hand grenades from local gun stores in the United States. In the states a fully automatic firearm can cost $10,000 to $20,000 and requires a lot of paperwork to purchase. You can however buy a semi-auto crippled version and such guns are smuggled into Mexico. However, the media has exaggerated the percentage of firearms the cartels get from American gun stores.

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
Monday, February 21, 2011


***snip***

By the Numbers
As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing.

In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/02/mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth.html

But of course you believe any lies the Brady Campaign or our government will promote in order to push another useless assault weapons ban and pander to those who want another foolish and useless assault weapons ban.

And I suspect that you are not concerned in the least that the ATF allowed straw purchasers to buy firearms despite the complaints of the store owners and lower level ATF agents and allowed at least 1200 firearms to "walk". These firearms will be misused by criminals both in Mexico and in the United States and will result in the death of many innocent people.

[ileus]

10. stopping guns from going to mexico wasn't their agenda.

[Tejas]

11. Update by Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/us-usa-mexico-guns-idUSTRE75E49N20110615

The agents complained they were ordered to break off surveillance of the firearms and instead follow the original gun purchaser rather than track where the weapons went.




wow, just wow.