Operation Fast and Furious proves one thing without a doubt

[jpak]

Mexican cartel straw buyers buy large quantities of guns from US gun dealers and they are used in violent crimes in Mexico and the US.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/16/nation/la-na-gunrunner-20110616

The GOP/NRA cannot deny this

yup

[eqfan592]

1. They did so with the ATF WATCHING.

You clearly don't understand WTF the investigation is even about, do you?

And "large quantities" isn't really an exact measure, now is it? But you don't want to talk about exact measures, because you know that when we look at the total of firearms confiscated in Mexico, your "large quantities" turn into relative small change.

[Tejas]

27. and TELLING the FFL's to break the law...........over 1,700 times.

[eqfan592]

28. Exactly!!

"We're going to specifically instruct firearms dealers to break the law over and over again, then go on to complain about the 'weak gun laws.'" How in the hell does that make a lick of sense to ANYBODY!?!?!

[krispos42]

2. Lemme fix that for you

Mexican cartel straw buyers buy large quantities of guns from US gun dealers and they are used in violent crimes in Mexico and the US.


There ya go.

[jpak]

3. denial

yup

[krispos42]

4. I'm sorry, what?

I was planning my trip to Arizona to buy fully-automatic machine guns, hand grenades, land mines, and 40mm grenades from gun shows to sell to the Mexican cartels.

I wasn't listening to what you just said right now.

[rl6214]

17. Once the cartels made their initial purchase, they knew they could

do it again and again so they did, otherwise it wouldn't have been anywhere near 2,500 weapons.

[gejohnston]

5. so you are defending

an agency that not only half assed enforces current law, has on going internal EEOC problems making it a hostile work place for female and minority agents, and now is violating the law they are supposed to enforce? That is before the civil rights abuses in the 1980s, and corruption since their creation in the 1920s.

The BATFE forced the dealers to go along with it. You can not deny this.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[palmtree guy]

7. they also

go into Guatemala and steal FULL AUTO weapons, RPG's and GRENADES from the military....the atf fucked that deal up big time, and they did under Obama and Holders watch....EPIC FUCKING FAIL!!!!

[spin]

8. You do more good for the pro gun rights cause than anyone else on this board ...

thanks for your support.

From your link in the OP:

A series of emails released as part of the hearing show that acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson and deputy Bill Hoover were getting weekly briefings on the operation. Melson also had requested and been supplied with log-in information that would allow him to monitor the video surveillance of an Arizona gun dealership supplying weapons under the ATF's watch.

"With this information … Melson was able to sit at his desk in Washington and, himself, watch a live feed of the straw buyers entering the gun stores to purchase dozens of AK-47 variants," Issa's office said in a statement accompanying the emails.

"Every agent from outside of the Phoenix field division, sir, as well as many in it, as soon as they came in, were appalled as soon as they learned" about the operation, Dodson said.

***snip***

"When I voiced surprise and concern with this tactic to William Newell and George Gillett, my concerns were dismissed. SAC Newell referred to the case as 'groundbreaking' and bragged that 'we're the only people in the country doing this,' " Forcelli told the committee.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/16/nation/la-na-gunrunner-20110616

Thanks for the link to an article that shows just how incompetent the ATF management is.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. +1 -- only

thing is, people that do not enter this gun forum and only see these headlines as they scroll down the discussion page are being misled.

[spin]

11. That is a valid point ...

Yup

[Tejas]

25. Wow, Sugarmann better sharpen up his game!

:rofl:

[ileus]

10. enforcing the laws would be better than enabling..

[Hangingon]

12. The testimony before Issa does show tsomething...

the present law are sufficient if they are enforced. Gun shops identified straw purchasers and informed ATF. ATF did nothing. The guns went to Mexico. ATF is an assessory in these crimes.

[Howzit]

24. It went further. The shops were told to go ahead with dodgy sales when they flagged them to ATF

Part of a sting operation - question is who was supposed to get stung by this?

[LAGC]

13. ATF = Corrupt Excuse for Law Enforcement Organization.

Yup.

Yup.

Yup.

[Hoyt]

14. I agree. "Sting" was attempting to stop guns going to Mexico and US gun dealers turning heads

to make a quick buck. Many dealers and private sellers don't give a flying F what happens with the guns they sell. If there were no ATF or other law enforcement, they'd be unloading guns on high crime street corners.

[gejohnston]

15. Not even close

The dealers were turning the buyers in. But if you insist on going down this road, they would be selling the guns to the same people you buy your drugs from with the money you gave them for your dope.

But you don't give a flying F as long as you get your candy.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gejohnston]

20. since I don't carry, really don't know and really don't

care if anyone smokes, as long as they realize that they help fund the gang wars in Mexico, must gun violence in US, Canada and Europe. Unless of course they grow their own. Since I don't do drugs and I don't sell guns to gangs, I contribute nothing to the problem, so quite frankly, I don't give a rats ass what "all the folks" think.

[rl6214]

18. When are you going to admit the ATF is a failure

They didn't stop US gun dealers from turning their heads, they demanded it and allowed the guns to go into Mexico when the US dealers tried to stop it. The gun dealers did the right thing.

The ATF doesn't give a flying F what happens with the guns they allow to be sold and cross the border.

[spin]

21. Seriously, your defense of the ATF hurts your cause ...

If a gun store had bypassed the law and supplied 1700 or more firearms to smugglers who wished to sneak them into Mexico, I would be calling for the owners and employees of that store to be tried and if convicted to receive long prison sentences.

[Euromutt]

23. You mean the gun dealers who were phoning the ATF about fishy purchases?

The ones whom the ATF subsequently told to proceed with the sale, and then didn't lift a finger to interdict the guns sold before they were over the border? Those unscrupulous dealers?

[rl6214]

16. First the NRA/GOP have nothing to do with the so you fail at that

Second the ATF committed a crime by allowing this to happen and it should be investicated and prosecuted as high as it goes.

Are you going to admit any of that or just spout your NRA/GOP bullshit as usual?

[Euromutt]

22. It also proves that the means *already exist* to prevent this occurring

Provided the ATF actually does its fucking job instead of allowing straw purchases--to which they were alerted by the firearms dealers!--to go ahead and allowing those firearms to be smuggled out of their jurisdiction.

[Tejas]

26. Yup, that ATF-strawbuyers can spend $20k cash at a time under the IRS radar.

25-45 firearms in one swoop, hand the FFL over $10k cash and it doesn't get reported to the IRS. Odd, wonder how that works?