Conceal Carry Under Attack From "Tyrant of Madison" Mayor Soglin

[rl6214]

Ultra-Liberal Madison Wisconsin Mayor Paul Soglin has issued a statement indicating his disdain of the new conceal carry bill, and his intent to subvert the will of Wisconsin voters by restricting the carrying of guns in Madison.

Trying to enforce his will upon the residents of Madison, The former 60's radical Mayor Soglin stated that he will sign an ordinance that will not allow anyone to carry concealed weapons on private property unless the carrier has written permission from the owner of the property.

http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979474256

Just another anti gun activist trying to impose his will on the electorate. He'll lose.

[damntexdem]

1. Hurrah for Soglin. Hey, here's a Dem defending the rights of PRIVATE PROPERTY owners.

But of course there are DUers who are spouting the Repuke line and attacking him.

[Taverner]

4. He needs to frame it as such

When I first read the article, my thoughts were the same as most of the pro-gun types


When I read the actual bill's provisions, however, I changed my tune because it has nothing to do with banning CCW and everything to do with private property

[TheWraith]

7. On the contrary, private property owners always have the right to bar firearms.

The only purpose of this is to take AWAY the right of private property owners to allow concealed carriers, by making it impossibly difficult to do so legally.

[Ed Suspicious]

2. Sounds fair to me...

If you want to carry a gun on my property, I think you should be required to inform and obtain my consent. Otherwise keep your guns off my property.

What is tyrannical about that?

[slackmaster]

5. I certainly wouldn't bring a weapon into your private home without your explicit permission

However, places like retail stores and restaurants are public spaces although they may be private property. Anyone can by default walk in, during business hours, without explicit permission. As such they are different critters than your home or your car or perhaps your business office.

Business establishments have the right to post signage prohibiting concealed weapons, just as a restaurant can deny entry to someone who doesn't meet their grooming standards.

[Blown330]

13. If you actually read the existing laws...

...you'd know that you already have this right. I know, reading and research in inconvenient to some people these days but it really helps when you try to frame a debate.

[Ed Suspicious]

36. Ok. Then I guess the good mayor is not so tyrannical as he is

overly prepared. I didn't read the law though. Maybe you could read up on it and give me a synopsis.

[PavePusher]

3. Wisconsin has state pre-emption of gun laws.

The doofus mayor is basically giving public notice that he wants his ass sued off.

I wish him the best of luck with that...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Pity he can not be made to bear the costs of such suits personally

[GillesDeleuze]

22. why?

that makes no sense, "professor"

[PavePusher]

31. Violating Civil Rights should not be done at the expense of the tax payers...

but out of the personal pockets of those trying to accomplish the violation.

YMMV....

[GillesDeleuze]

51. then only billionaires could run for office

that is the world youd want to live in, yes?

[PavePusher]

52. Gosh, what part of "violating Civil Rights" did you not get?

My implication was obviously that if one tries to violate Civil Rights they should pay out of their own ass.

Are you intentionally obtuse, disingenuous, or merely naturally lacking in cognitive function?

[GillesDeleuze]

53. my contention is that anyone could sue anyone for civil rights violations

and judge shop.

you bankrupt any working class politician before the end of their first day in office.

thats why the municipalities have legal teams and pay for counsel.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[madrchsod]

6. High Noon on State Street !

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Jeez, is that Ian's Pizza back there near the Orpheum?

[madrchsod]

42. good one!...during the 60`s we used to sit in the bar..

that had the window seats.......great place to check out the hippy chicks walking down state street.

one of the worse decisions i`ve ever made was not moving to madison in the early 70`s.

[Jackpine Radical]

49. I know exactly the bar you mean.

The Pub. That was quite a place.

[madrchsod]

72. yup.....

[DrDan]

8. I love how the pro-gun side portrays him"

"tyrant"
"ultra-liberal"
"former 60s radical"
"his hero, Castro"
"ultra-radical liberal"
"former hippie"
"hippie-tyrant"
"typical radical tyrant"

Mess with one's guns and be prepared for the barrage from the GOP/NRA.

GO SOGLIN!!!

[slackmaster]

11. One of the most important things I learned about politics, in an 8th grade US History class...

...the far left is indistinguishable from the far right, in terms of their intrusions on peoples' personal lives. Or as a Chinese former co-worker put it:

"A left jack boot up your ass feels no better than a right jack boot up your ass."

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

71. Something to consider for today:

Which boot will leave you a disarmed and defenseless?

It's time for a change, not just hope. Change the mind of the party overall. Stop making it so hard for pro-RKBA folks to vote blue. I think it would be surprising how many that are registered red might actually vote blue.

[Hoyt]

15. Found that interesting too. Why would one here read or link to it? Anything in name of guns I guess.

[DrDan]

16. sure explains why personal insults are such an integral part of forums of this type

[rl6214]

17. Riiight

Things like:

Gun lovers
Gun fetishist
Toters
Stuffing a gun down your pants
Can't walk around without one strapped on


And more and more

Are those the personal insults you are talking about?

[DrDan]

18. riiight

[krispos42]

75. Don't forget gun-worshippers. And the usual "shiny metal penis" comments n/t

[Bjorn Against]

30. That article read like it was written by Rush Limbaugh

I am shocked that this was actually on the Greatest Page for a short time until I unrecommended it, this is pure foaming at the mouth right-wing garbage and how it could be recommended on a progressive web site is beyond me. Maybe we have some freeper visitors today.

[clffrdjk]

40. Rush Limbaugh is anti gun rights N/T

[Bjorn Against]

44. Actually Rush takes the NRA position

I did a Google search and found several comments from him taking the NRA position, if you can give me a link to him speaking in favor of gun control I will listen but I sure can't find anything to suggest he supports gun control in any way.

Even if you were right however the language in the OP is clearly from a rabid foaming at the mouth right-winger, whether he holds all the positions of Rush or not he sure talks a lot like him. In fact the guy who wrote the OP may even make Rush look like a liberal in comparision.

[gejohnston]

48. if he lived in a OC state, a reenactment of this open carry demonstration

at his estate would be amusing. I think even the antis would say "right on".

"The guns laws in the State of California in 1966 stated that you could carry a loaded gun out on the street so long as it was registered, not concealed and not pointed in a threatening manner." --Huey P. Newton, Black Panther leader

It began shortly after the shooting of Denzil Dowell. Easy Bay legislator Don Mulford introduced a bill to repeal the law that permitted citizens to carry loaded weapons in public places so long as the weapons were openly displayed . What the Mulford law sought to achieve was the elimination of the Black Panther Police Patrols, and it had been tagged "the Panther Bill" by the media.

The Police Patrols had become an integral part of BPP community policy. Members of the BPP would listen to police calls on a short wave radio, rush to the scene of the arrest with law books in hand and inform the person being arrested of their constitutional rights....

The legislature responded by passing the bill, thus creating the Mulford Act, which was signed into law by Governor Ronald Reagan....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

[larwdem]

34. WTF

SOUNDS LIKE REPUBLICANS TO ME:puke:

[gejohnston]

47. was he a hippie?

If he was, that is not a bad thing. Hippie tyrant? That is an oxymoron.
The ironic thing about Castro, some of his policies was more in line with Jesse Helms that any liberal (or mainstream conservative I know). Homophobia and AIDs colonies (like leper colonies) for example.

[GillesDeleuze]

54. soglin used to be a hippy, now he's into finance.

[gejohnston]

56. the word "sellout" comes to mind

[GillesDeleuze]

57. hehe, no, he marched with us @capitol, etc.

one of the main reasons we voted for paul soglin to oust mayor dave was because of his finance background. the man knows his debt management and muni bonds.

[gejohnston]

58. my bad, I was thinking bankster

[friendly_iconoclast]

61. More like *Ronald Reagan*, actually. He wants a local version of the Mulford Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Mulford Act

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill prohibiting the public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after assemblyman Don Mulford, the bill garnered national attention after the Black Panthers marched on the California Capitol to protest the bill<1><2>. The bill was signed by California Governor Ronald Reagan and became California penal code 12031 and 171(c).

[gejohnston]

62. Mulford was about open carry. How is this about open carry?

[ileus]

10. Wonder why he feels threatened by his fellow voters.

[GillesDeleuze]

23. you mean the right wingers?

their outside views don't represent madison, or the majority of the state.

[PavePusher]

32. Ah, the tyranny of the majority.

So, you'd be O.K. with "seperate but equal" in the south, I presume? (And, historically, a lot of places in the north, too.)

[GillesDeleuze]

66. keep fighting those imaginary madison nazis

[rl6214]

67. What's with you and nazis? Do you have a nazi fetish or is

anyone that opposes you automatically a nazi?

[GillesDeleuze]

70. no just people who cry tyranny!

if every regulatory and statutory action is tyranny, the world is full of nazis.

[hlthe2b]

12. "Tyrant of Madison"? Ohh, puhleeze

:eyes:

[eqfan592]

19. That is a bit over the top...

...but the law is still bullshit.

[GillesDeleuze]

24. lulzy!

"expressed written permission": put up a fucking sign saying you want dangerous weapons in your store. bam. now everyone has permission to make your business less safe.

[gejohnston]

27. less safe how? Seriously,

I grew up where everyone had guns. We rarely locked our doors at night, I could ride my bike anywhere in town feeling completely safe.
Besides, on my first "business trip" to the middle east, I ate at a cafeteria where most people were carrying loaded assault rifles and machine guns. I was safe. So do you think some dentist with a five shot .38 revolver is going to bother me?

[GillesDeleuze]

28. yes,

accidental discharge alone means less safe.

i dont think you'll impress me much with your 'business trips': anyone handling a weapon has had way more training than it takes to get a permit.

[gejohnston]

29. accidental discharges are rare and mostly due to stupidity

Besides, I thought training was part of process in Wisconsin. It is in Texas from what I understand.

Besides, you missed the point about the business trips. The holstered revolver is safer than a machine gun under the table.

[GillesDeleuze]

64. then gun carriers must be extra stupid..

http://host.madison.com/ct/blogs/article_bacfa386-9c31-11e0-b8c9-001cc4c002e0.html

Carry a gun? you are probably a reckless drunk: study.

[gejohnston]

68. Oh you mean the press release of a half assed study

Read it when someone posted it earlier. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x428987

What's next? the Al Qaida guy telling his followers go buy machine guns at gun shows? Or some other Brady canard?

[PavePusher]

73. "you are probably a reckless drunk"

And you seem to demonstrate a remarkable degree of illiteracy, as you seem to have no reading comprehension whatsoever.

[rl6214]

74. I carry a gun every day

and I don't drink.

[madrchsod]

43. come on now ..that is really funny..the tyrant of madison... !

[GreenStormCloud]

20. If I owned a business there I would post a sign like this:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[GillesDeleuze]

55. Don't you hate it when the nazi's make you post signs saying you allow guns

[rl6214]

60. I think he said he himself would post a sign

saying he not only allowed guns but welcomed them. Reading is fundamental.

And why would you possibly bring up nazis in all of this?

[GillesDeleuze]

65. because of that hitler mayor in madison

whos just like the tyrannical nazis

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

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[larwdem]

33. owner

the owner of any property has the right to not allow any guns stores farmers markets any privately owned place or property

GUNS KILL PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH GUNS KILL PEOPLE:nuke:

[PavePusher]

37. Guns also make excellent defensive tools.

GUNS DEFEND PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH GUNS DEFEND PEOPLE. :think:

[gejohnston]

38. still public accommodation

[friendly_iconoclast]

35. Here's the link to a non-OTT version of this story:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_9b2c9524-994e-11e0-b25b-001cc4c002e0.html

[-..__...]

39. Stage an 2nd amendment/open carry protest in front of City Hall...

that should slap some sense into him.

[gejohnston]

41. Most likely he will do a Reagan and Mulford

On the other hand, since they will mostly be white...............

[-..__...]

45. Delete

[GillesDeleuze]

50. we are far too busy with REAL problems

protesting at the state capitol..

[friendly_iconoclast]

59. That's odd, the Black Panthers did *this* in the midst of the Vietnam War:

That nice progressive Mayor Soglin is using Ronald Reagan as a role model.

O, the irony:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=263537










Your presumption to speak for others is made all the more amusing due to lack of historical context

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Straw Man]

46. They already have the right to post that they WON'T allow carry.

Does this bill say they must post if they WILL allow it? That's ludicrous. It sounds like harassment and a rear-guard action to me.

[Logical]

69. What an idiot! n-t