When Obama was elected

[BeFree]

Gun and ammo sales sky-rocketed when Obama was elected, right?
What mindset drove that event??

[onehandle]

1. Black President. nt

[Common Sense Party]

3. Uh...

...no.

[Straw Man]

5. Does "nt" stand for "no truth"?

It happened under Clinton too. Oh that's right, I forgot: Clinton was actually our first black president.

[rrneck]

8. Why don't you try to explain that.

I need a good laugh.

[rl6214]

12. Bullshit

Prove it.

[Glassunion]

57. Thank you for trivializing centuries of racism in two words.

I get it. You don't like guns. I'm fine with that.

What I am not fine with is the fact that you are trivializing racism just so you may try to paint an evil face on something you don't agree with. Time and again, you have personally offended me with your comments like these that belittle an honest and real issue that I and others like me have to face every single day of our lives.

If they don't agree with you, you paint them as racist.
If they have differing political viewpoints, you paint them as racists.

I have news for you. Honest racism is not tied to one political party, nor is it tied to only specific ideals. Overall, our party stands up to racism more than any other. Does that make the other parties racist? No it does not. Overall, our ideals go against racism. Does that make other ideals racist? No it does not. Does this mean that the Democratic party is free from racism? No it does not. Does that mean that Democratic policies are free from racism? No it does not.

I can never make you walk a mile in my shoes, but do not think for one moment you walk in front of me, or those like me on this issue.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

60. +1

well said.

[Glassunion]

67. I should have said more...

[ileus]

2. This...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

[Bold Lib]

31. Bingo!

[ileus]

52. No one read the link, or the thread would have ended here.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. headline and first 4 paragraphs (making it easy on the folks)

Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

by JASON RYAN
WASHINGTON, Feb. 25, 2009

The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration, Attorney General Eric Holder said today.

"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder told reporters.

Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

"I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum." Holder said at a news conference on the arrest of more than 700 people in a drug enforcement crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the U.S.

[Straw Man]

4. Mindset.

Gun and ammo sales sky-rocketed when Obama was elected, right?
What mindset drove that event??

Probably the fact that a revivial of the 1994 assault weapons ban was part of his platform when he ran for President. People wanted to "get theirs" before it was banned. It happened in '94 as well.

In fact, Obama has not been actively pursuing that goal. Some are not happy about that.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2046592,00.html

[TheWraith]

7. That, and it didn't start with Obama.

Gun sales had been spiking since 2005, when Americans watched a major city be left alone to drown--no law, no assistance, no rescue--and realized that if a natural disaster hit, they really were on their own.

[BeFree]

9. so

The mindset was that a gun would save them from disasters?

[Blown330]

10. Well it was obvious they couldn't rely on the police...

....or Feds to protect them.

[TheWraith]

11. A firearm is a useful part of an emergency package.

Change of clothes, first aid kit, any medications your family needs, some food and water, flashlights, lighters, backup prepaid cell phone, firearm, maybe a few other things.

[BeFree]

14. Useful for what?

If you were holed up in the superdome, would you be happy if everyone was packing?

[Straw Man]

16. Self-defense and possibly the acquisition of some animal protein.

If you were holed up in the superdome, would you be happy if everyone was packing?

The Superdome was slow death for everyone involved. It was the embodiment of governmental neglect. The purpose of being prepared and supplied is so that you don't have to go the Superdome.

[BeFree]

17. So

If you had a gun, no need to go to the superdome?

[TheWraith]

19. If you were prepared, no, you might not have to go there.

If your home wasn't wrecked, you could stay there with your supplies. A firearm isn't an obligatory part of a preparedness package, but it helps.

If you did have to go to the Superdome, though, and showed up with cash, food, and pills, the firearm might help you avoid getting into any fights, and insure that you shared your supplies only with the people who genuinely needed them.

[Straw Man]

25. Short attention span?

If you had a gun, no need to go to the superdome?

Or just not paying attention in the first place:

Change of clothes, first aid kit, any medications your family needs, some food and water, flashlights, lighters, backup prepaid cell phone, firearm, maybe a few other things.

[Bold Lib]

33. Did you see the pictures of the small community in N.O. after the hurricane?

They had a nice sign at the entrance of the community that said something to the affect of "looters will be shot". Several posed around the sign with their firearms in hand. They WERE prepared and came together in time of crises. The firearms were only PART of the preparation, not the end all be all that so many anti's claim is the mentality of those that include firearms as part of their preps.

[Taitertots]

39. Who said that...

Why are you posting intellectually dishonest responses to reasonable posts?

[slackmaster]

30. There's the "if everyone was packing" straw man again

Nobody is proposing that everyone should be armed.

[PavePusher]

36. You focus too narrowly and, I am sure, purposely.

There are a myriad of possible scenarios. Your sole hypothesis is a weak defense of your insinuations.

Good luck with that.

[rl6214]

15. Noooo

The mindset was that there would be another 94 AWB and that if they weren't purchased before a new ban was in place they would never be able to get them. That along with the history of attempted gun control by the Democrat party and his close affiliations with some of the key players in the gun control movement.

[BeFree]

18. So

They were all crazy wrong? No bans, eh?

[TheWraith]

20. Not for lack of Holder and Clinton trying to push it.

Fortunately Obama is a far wiser person than they are.

[DonP]

65. Not to mention a lot of people here still clamoring for it

We still have people showing up here and demanding the "reinstatement" of the AWB.

So ignorant of facts that they actually think there's a switch in Congress that can turn a no longer existing law back on, like turning on a light bulb.

[rl6214]

22. Who was all crazy wrong?

Those that had pushed for bans in the past or those that though new bans may be in the works?

[slackmaster]

29. We still have members of the Senate and the House who are pushing for bans

Most of them are unfortunately Democrats.

[Bold Lib]

34. Then why did President Obama have it as part of his platform? He could

have very easily come out in support of the 2A.

[PavePusher]

37. All you seem to have is accusation and insinuation.

That shit belongs... elsewhere.

[Bold Lib]

32. Are you familiar with the "Rodney King" riots?

Police abandoned parts of the city completely and left people to find for themselves. The only stores left untouched were protected by the owners using guns. A little research and you can come up with several videos of active fire fights with the shop keepers protecting themselves and their stores.

[Taitertots]

38. "Save", who said that?

Why are you proposing intellectually dishonest straw man arguments?

[Katya Mullethov]

6. Pragmatism

[rl6214]

13. Prior history of gun control attempts by the DNC

Democrat Plank calling for renewal of AWB. Obama's own website calling for new AWB. Voting history of Obama while in the senate. Strict gun control laws in Chitcago and IL.

[Francis Marion]

21. Life experience drove the event.

Because we watched Republicans walk on, and Democrats stomp on, our Second Amendment for decades.

When a faily liberal (not Liberal) Democrat named Obama took office, gun owners expected him to do more damage to gun rights than either Clinton or Bush(es).

And he didn't disappoint.

Obama blocked the importation of WW2 vintage M1 rifles from Korea for sale to Americans.
Obama does not trust The People, does not respect (understand?) Our Second Amendment.

Obama's government ordered the destruction of military small arms brass, a commodity previously available for people to buy.
Obama, again, does not trust The People, does not respect (understand?) the Second Amendment.

Furthermore, Jeff Knox reports re. Obama's promise to the Brady Bunch...

Obama, the Constitutional scholar, is reported to have said:
"I just want you to know that we are working on it (i.e., gun 'control')"
"We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar."
Jeff Knox cites an April 11 Washington Post (Lifestyle section) article as his source.

The chief executive of our nation assures a partisan, anti-rights organization that he'll work hard, and secretly, to hurt our Bill of Rights. WHAT???!!!

The only thing keeping Obama's hands off our Bill of Rights is the recent, painful memory of Clinton's so-called "assault weapon" ban electoral spanking.

I have yet to identify even one example of Obama's clear, constitutionally faithful support, much less understanding, of our Second Amendment. Anybody else able to name one example?

[Blown330]

24. At least one senator...

...is seeking to amend that issue with military small arms brass. And to be fair, ATK (I used to work for a company that sub-contracted to them) had a lot to do with military brass being turned to scrap.

[lawodevolution]

23. Katrina. That started the ongoing year after year increase in gun sales

[aikoaiko]

26. Democratic House, Democratic Senate, and a Democratic President who promised to reathorize the AWB

I think it was reasonable to assume that some new gun laws would be proposed that would reduce access to certain rifle, shotguns, and pistols in certain configurations. People hedged their bets and bought in 2008 and 2009.

Fortunately, the "panic buying" had an interesting impact on policy. I think President Obama and politicians saw people spending a lot of money during a horrible recession out of concern and realized that these people were motivated voters. The President and pro-AWB politicians have been silent on this issue ever since.

Some people claim it is due to him being a Black President, but as far as I can tell that claim comes from their own unexamined racial issues.

[TheWraith]

55. Plus, money spent on guns is money that primarily stays in the US.

Because of import restrictions, most firearms manufacturing for US consumption are built here in the US. Doubly so for "evil" black rifles. So all that money rolled into the US manufacturing sector.

[Taitertots]

27. Obama repeatedly publicly stated that he supported banning the weapons purchased

Why do you even need to ask?

[Bold Lib]

35. Revisionist history? Ignorance? Just stirring the pot?

Who knows?

[slackmaster]

28. Yours.

:hi:

[eqfan592]

41. Hahaha, awesome. :D nt

[benEzra]

40. The gun-control lobby and corporate media (falsely) insisted Obama would support new bans...

and that he would outlaw many of the most popular civilian guns in the United States, were he to be elected: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/jim-and-sarah-brady-brady_b_134096.html

...Paul Helmke being the Republican former governor of Indiana who runs the Brady Campaign (or did, until last week). And to be fair, Napolitano's group very foolishly allowed the Third Way pro-bans language to remain in the party platform, putting the meme out there in print and on the web for all to see.



After the election, the Brady Campaign and the media gleefully suggested that new bans and other restrictions were imminent, e.g. http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/politics/obama-transition-memo.pdf.



Although a lot of observers (including me) thought that Obama would be too smart to resurrect the "assault weapon" fraud and other political albatrosses, it was not unreasonable to hedge against the possibility that we were wrong. Tens of millions of us got burned in 1994 for thinking the Feinstein law wouldn't pass, and that episode is going to remain burned in gun owners' cultural memory for a generation.

[BeFree]

42. So

It had nothing to do with the fact so many thought he was born in Kenya?

My personal experience is that way too many felt that way. And, until this thread, had thought most people who rushed out to load up had that mindset. I see now that there were other reasons. Foolish and wrong, still, but others not quite so stupid as the born in Kenya version.

[gejohnston]

43. I don't think the Katrina version is foolish or wrong

Never met anyone that had the born in Kenya one, but that would be a foolish reason.

[benEzra]

44. No, it was primarily hedging against proposed bans, IMO.

One's birthplace doesn't determine one's views on guns, so I just don't see that as a big issue from a gun standpoint, even for birther types.

I myself have picked up a few guns and magazines over the years as a hedge against bans du jour, and two of those guns were while Bush II was president. If you think you might want to own a particular item someday, and a law is proposed to make it a felony to own that item for the rest of your life unless you go ahead and buy it now, then it is not unreasonable to make that purchase even if the ban is unlikely to pass. I was one of those who got burned in 1994, so I am never going to make that mistake again.

[Bold Lib]

45. Falsely? He had it on his own web site during the election, and it is STILL

part of the party platform. There is nothing false about that.

[benEzra]

46. True...but he hasn't. I suppose "falsely" was the wrong word, though.

He seemed to me at the time that he was trying to distance himself from the DLC AWB zealots. I'm aware of his prior record as a legislator from Illinois, but as it turns out he was the one who told Holder et al to STFU on the AWB issue, and other than the Travers nomination he's been rather good on gun issues.

[Logical]

47. The NRA is good at scaring people. And radical gun owners seem to get paranoid easily. n-t

[rl6214]

48. There are only 4.5mil NRA members

I don't think all of the people going out and buying firearms are listening to the NRA. I think you need to give gun owners a little more credit than to listen to some of the drivel out there. I also don't think there are enough "radical" gun owners out there to drive the sales that have occured over the past 2 years.

[Logical]

49. Sure there are enough.......

look at the monthly sales, about 1.5 million a month normally. If you had a 30% increase in sales that is only about 400,000 people. I think there are easily 400,000 paranoid/radical gun owners. 10% of the NRA membership.

[PavePusher]

50. Every month? For two years? Really? n/t

[Logical]

51. Lets face it....

there was really no indication Obama could have or was going to ban gun sales. And he has done nothing go limit ammo sales either. So anyone buying guns because Obama won was a little nutty/paranoid anyway.

And let me make a prediction, the NRA will scare the hell out of it's members in 2012 also.

[PavePusher]

53. Well, yeah, nothing but his previous record, and his campaign statements...

Y'know, little stuff....

[Hoopla Phil]

54. "no indication"??? He had reinstatement of the so called AWB on his

campaign web site. There is also his voting record as a state legislator. Happily what was past has not proved to be prologue.

[friendly_iconoclast]

59. You're using empirical evidence against those with cognitive dissonance.

Remember, this is the same group of people that advocating banning guns and then claim "no one wants to ban guns"....



Or were against the so-called 'terrorist watch lists' before they were for them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3031131#3032492

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x431371#431380

[Logical]

66. And he has done nothing anti-gun, but the NRA has already started their typical shit already. n-t

[Hoyt]

56. Where I live, ammo sales spiked as TBaggers joined "take our country back" movement.

Silly, bigoted fools.

[benEzra]

58. And what spike would that be?

If you're talking about the shortage that developed in 2007-2009 when post-Katrina hedging and microstamping/ban concerns collided with production shortfalls due to Iraq War demand, that affected pretty much all gun owners.

Or were you taking surveys at the gun counter to ascertain why various owners were buying?

[Bold Lib]

62. The O.P. seems to have abandoned this thread for some reason.

:shrug:

[benEzra]

63. To amplify what I said upthread...

...the party went through a "la la la I can't hear you" phase in the '90s through 2006 or so on the gun issue, and from both a pragmatic and a constitutional perspective made some really dumb decisions (such as equating mainstream gun ownership with hunting and clays). That was an albatross around Gore's neck in 2000 and Kerry's in 2004, and some elements in the party---including the keepers of the party platform---would like to have carried that forward to the present.

Personally, I thought Obama, unlike his predecessors would be savvy enough to leave the AWB fraud alone, and he had been tacking away from it pretty hard in some town meetings on the issue. but I was bit concerned that Biden might push hard for one within the Administration, based on his prior advocacy on the issue and his statements during the primaries. I was very glad to see that wasn't the case.

[AtheistCrusader]

64. Because it stated he would seek to reinstate the AWB on Change.Gov

Edit: An item that has not come to pass, and probably never will, I might add.

Just playing lip service to the Helmke crowd. I doubt he had any aspriations in this department at all.