Anti-Gun members, why does the Brady Group have only 50,000 members while the NRA has 4 million?

[Logical]

If you really think that guns cause so many issues and that guns are out of control, then why do anti-gun groups have so much trouble getting people to join their cause?

The NRA only has 4 million members. 1.5% of the USA population.

I am no fan of the NRA as I have posted here many times, but it seems really odd that if guns are really a serious issue that Americans are worried about, that you cannot get four million people to support a Brady type group.

Studies report between 30 - 50% of homes have a gun. That would still leave millions of homes with no guns. Why, if American thinks there is a huge gun issue, would there non-gun homes not organize and fight the NRA?

Maybe the anti-Gun people are a very very very small percent of Americans. Or anti-gun people might vote in polls, but not really want to spend any money on the cause.

More proof that America does not have a gun problem.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[idiotgardener]

2. This oughta be good.

[bluestateguy]

3. I have never seen a Brady Campaign decal on a car

I see NRA decals all the time.

The Bradys have no populist grass roots appeal at all. It's basically an elite group of big city mayors, newspaper editorial boards, think tankers and establishmentarians.

[PavePusher]

4. *cough*astroturf*cough* n/t

[Logical]

7. OK, I am a little slow tonight I guess. I need more of a hint! n-t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. Me too. n/t

[PavePusher]

12. Ummm, the Brady "group".

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Just goes to prove that irony and sarcasm benefit from audible tone and inflection. Sigh....

[Logical]

14. OK, I get it now! Duh! Not your fault, mine for not thinking deeper! n-t

[PavePusher]

15. No worries. n/t

[Bill McBlueState]

5. Because what is popular is always right and what is right is always popular

It's pretty simple; every sixth-grader knows that.

[Logical]

9. I am hoping for a real answer. n-t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. I have heard more than once...

...that hearing/reading info from the Brady Bunch has steered many to the NRA.

[Enrique]

10. because the NRA has a very long history

and deep cultural roots. The Brady Campaign has nothing like that.

[hay rick]

11. Why do way more people watch American Idol than Nova?

[PavePusher]

13. Oddly, none of the NRA members I know...

can stand A.I. or any of it's imitators.

Most of them think Nova is usually pretty good, when the show isn't pushing an agenda.

[Logical]

16. Not sure idol watchers are bad people, maybe science bores them. n-t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. Uhh.

I'd rather watch paint dry than reality tv.

The only thing worse are those cooking contest shows about who can season, cook and decorate the fastest something that I probably would never actually want to eat.

[rrneck]

17. The NRA has a better business model. nt

[petronius]

51. I think that's one leg of it - the NRA is better at motivating and maintaining support

Also what Enrique mentioned upthread - the NRA taps into a sense of cultural identity, and for a lot of people the NRA imprimatur still means safety and training and expertise.

Thirdly, I think in nearly all regulatory debates the side that wants to limit or reduce a right or create a law or change the status quo is usually the smaller (but often louder) contingent - the finger-wagging, for-the-children, "don't-do-that!" position appeals to a smaller segment of society. (Which is not to say that that position is always wrong, in a general sense...)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

20. Does your Mother know you're using her computer on a school night? n/t

[dionysus]

22. look, i own a garand, but the firearm worshippers really do make me laugh my ass off.

[Logical]

24. I would love to read your definition of worshipers! And you listing the gun you own....

is way more than I did! LOL.

[dionysus]

30. okay, i'll apologize for my post. i have nothing against gun ownership, i just dont understand how

people could be *that* into it. i guess it's just something i dont understand. i think's a little odd.

i'm more into collecting guitars, but thats just me.

but my post was douchebaggy. i'm sorry.

[Logical]

33. No problem at all. But I am not sure many here worship guns.....

but I know a few people who collect them and trade them and it is a big hobby for them.

I guess it is like any collector or hobby. To an outsider it seems odd.

I am more of trying to understand the anti-gun stance. But thanks for the apology. Nice thing to do.

[dionysus]

35. i think urban folks who are more exposed to handgun violence will tend to be more anti-gun

where people outside of crime ridden areas will wonder why anyone wants to restrict ownership. i used to live in a neighborhood where you could heatr pistol shots at night, and when you're in a place like that it's easy to not want them all over the place. i know criminals would have unregistered guns with the serial numbers files off anyways, but at least it makes one understand the anti-gun mindset.

i bought the M-1 on gunbroker.com, an excellent auction site, like ebay.

i like ww2 stuff but it's too expensive a hobby for me.

[Logical]

37. I for one understand the crime ridden areas not liking guns.....

and can see their point. It is an issue in many areas. And sad.

The only issue now is that it is impossible to put the cat back in the bag.

So I think citizens should be allowed to own guns also since the criminals have them.

[tortoise1956]

66. I can understand that mindset

in people who live with the threat of gun violence on a regular basis. I don't blame them at all.

However, I personally would rather have a weapon of my own to counter a threat to my house and family. One reason why I have a 12-gauge and .40 cal that live in my bedroom. they took up residence after the house next door was shot up by some local idiots in a drive-by. (15 shots at the house, only 5 hits - obviously they needed more gun control!)

And before anyone asks:
1. There are no children over 4 who have access to the room.
2. There is one grand-daughter who just turned 4 who visits infrequently.
3. Neither weapon has a round in the chamber.
4. The 12-gauge safety is engaged at all times.
5. the .40 cal is pretty hard to rack (even my wife has trouble doing it)

In spite of all the above, I will be getting a gun safe for the .40 soon, and putting the (unloaded, of course) 12-gauge into storage to prevent any chance of an accidental discharge.

Finally, don't feel bad about being deleted. I myself have been shut down once. I chalked it up to my fingers outracing my mind, and tried to learn from it. Not sure how successful the lesson was, though...

[PavePusher]

42. Likewise, I apologize for my overly snarky riposte.

Some of us (well, me, specifically) can get a little overly defensive at times, having become sensitized to a lot of insult-insinuations that get flung around here so casually by one side of the debate.

Thank you for the retraction.

Edit: Oh, and I don't understand many people's fascinations. My brother was an "avid" (I used stronger terms at the time...) insect collector in his youth. I thought he was bat-shit nuts.... but then, he didn't understand my fixation on bicycles and racing. Fortunately we've both mellowed. Well, a little anyway. That's my story, and I'm clinging to it... :toast:

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. The Garand is an excellent firearm.

Have a nice day.

[PavePusher]

45. Weeeeeeelllll.... maybe not so much.

http://mzmadmike.livejournal.com/

A few reasons why it isn't. It was simply better than the competition of the time, in some aspects.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

64. Within obvious limits of course.

The superiority of more modern (and less thumb hungry) rifles not withstanding, the Garand IMHO has a proven record and is durable and accurate, which justifies a place for it among other such champion tools. :)

[PavePusher]

67. Well, the durability and accuracy are debateable.

For instance, whenever they needed a precision shooter (gun or operator) in WWII, they looked for the guy with the Springfield '03....

[eqfan592]

68. Have to disagree.

Simply because the military had a different designated marksman weapon does not mean there was something inherently inaccurate with the Garand. In terms of "battle accuracy" it was excellent, and could come very close to the Springfield's accuracy. In fact, there were sniper variants of the Garand in use during WW2 all the way up to the Vietnam War.

Mind you I am not saying that the Garand was the end all and be all of battle rifles. But it was an excellent battle rifle for its time, and remains a very solid firearm for a variety of civilian uses to this day.

EDIT: Also, I can find very few people that call into question the durability and reliability of the rifle.

[PavePusher]

69. Check the article I linked to. The author is a highly experienced shooter.

I'll admit he could be wrong... but his experiences match mine pretty well, and I haven't seen much evidence to refute him.

[eqfan592]

72. I did.

And many of his criticisms of the Garand are indeed valid. The Garand has plenty of quarks and was far from a perfect rifle. But I think he takes his dislike of the firearm to the extreme in his flawed attempt to somehow show that the rifle was a poor performer on the battlefield. I believe he greatly underestimates the impact of aimed semi-automatic rifle fire can have when it comes to suppression of enemy targets, especially in a time when every other army was relying almost entirely on bolt action rifles as their primary battle implement. He does indeed point out that other nations did indeed have semi-automatic rifles, however none were deployed on the same scale as the M1 Garand at that time. Not even close in fact. I also find his attempt at statistical analysis unconvincing as it doesn't seem to account for a wide range of factors (at least he fails to mention that he accounted for them in this article).

So to reiterate, I'm not one that would argue that Garand was the best rifle of all time or anything like that, and its flaws are glaring and numerous, but I think this does not diminish the massive positive impact the rifle had on our combat effectiveness during world war 2.

[sharesunited]

21. The American chapter of MENSA has 56,000 members. Same principle.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

26. Would you have any stats...

...on how many MENSA members also contribute to the Brady Camp and how many to the NRA?

[Logical]

27. OK, how does that relate to anything? Are you saying MENSA members are all

Brady members? Or Brady members are the only smart ones?

[GreenStormCloud]

36. MENSA has entrance requirements, Brady and the NRA don't.

Your analogy is TEH FAIL.

[TheCowsCameHome]

56. True dat.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

DUzy winner!

[RC]

43. Yep, more dumb people that smart people.

[rrneck]

52. I was a member of MENSA.

And I'm a gun owner. What principle do you mean?

[enough]

23. I never thought I would see "more people like this" as an argument for something

on DU.

Oh shit, I just broke one of my rules. Never spend time arguing where there's no point.

[Logical]

25. Typical non answer from the antis. Thanks for proving my point. n-t

[Ian David]

29. There's no money to be made from it.

I've never gone to a "Come and Don't Buy a Gun Show."

And not owning a gun is free.

I have an idea!

Maybe The Brady Campaign can sell million dollar policies that pay you if you're accidentally killed by your own not-gun!

[Logical]

34. How are NRA members making money off being members? I see the Gun makers having a....

money interest but not NRA members.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. NRA members do have a financial interest.

Good quality guns aren't cheap and I don't want to see the guns that I have banned by some ignorant politicians. I don't want to lose the protection of being able to carry a gun one me.

[Ian David]

57. No, not the MEMBERS. The NRA is making money, as are the gun makers.

If the Brady Campaign sold insurance and had shows where you could buy not-guns, and there were huge factories exporting not-guns all over the world, they'd have just as many members, too.

[wizstars]

31. because the two most abundant substances in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

[PavePusher]

44. And the Brady's have a strong holding in "Stupid", bought on margin... n/t

[RSillsbee]

47. And the cradle will Rock! NT

[gejohnston]

74. Have you seen Junior's grades? nt

[ileus]

32. Be kinda silly to join a anti-civil right group like BradyCo.

[DBoon]

39. Why are there more christian fundamentalists than atheists?

Fanatical defense of dogma always gathers more followers than rational skepticism

[eqfan592]

40. Lol, not always...

...and implying that the Brady Campaign demonstrates "rational skepticism" is likely the funniest thing I've read here all night.

[gejohnston]

41. Actually an agnostic is a better example of rational skepticism

The belief in nonexistence is no less faith based than believers. BTW, how do you know Christian fundamentalists out number atheists? Fundies seem more like a very vocal minority. On the subject, almost all antis act more like fundies than rational skeptics. From reading many of their posts, a few are rational but none of them are skeptics.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. I think you have rational skepticism muddled up somehow.

Not a single instance of human-believed supernatural/metaphysical anything passes muster for rational skepticism.

Atheists are not 'believers' in the nonexistence of gods. Atheism is not a faith. It is a complete lack of faith. Some groups of Atheists such as secular humanists could border on a faith based structure of their own, but atheism is literally a lack of theism.

[gejohnston]

61. Evangelical atheists like Bill Mahar

who proclaim that they know there is no one there to the point of being obnoxious helps muddle it.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. He might be obnoxious, but he's making a falsifiable statment.

No more or less accurate than a Christian scoffing at Zeus.


Maher's statements pass muster. He usually does couch the statement at some point during the conversation as 'there is no evidence (X) exists'. After that point, he'll revert to shorthand 'that doesn't exist'. I don't think that's in any way dishonest or bad.

[gejohnston]

65. I don't think dishonest or bad but

I'll stick to my "hell if I know"

[RSillsbee]

46. I don't think "anti gun" is the correct terminology

Most of what we call the anti gun crowd here own (or at least claim to own) guns. They own guns they just don't trust you to own guns. Kinda like the Brady Bunch (all 6 of them) in that respect.

[provis99]

48. why are religious kooks 90% of the population, while atheists less than 10%?

Appealing to the idea that the stupid masses are behind you is no way to try to win an argument.

[gejohnston]

49. neither is pretending you are part of an all knowing elite.

[provis99]

50. well, you win for totally random statement of the day.

[Straw Man]

53. You don't see the direct connection to your statement?

Appealing to the idea that the stupid masses are behind you is no way to try to win an argument.

neither is pretending you are part of an all knowing elite.

I thought you were saying that you were one of the clever ones ...

[TheCowsCameHome]

55. Brady is irrelevant, or so it has been said.

Of course that doesn't mean some aren't sacred shitless of them anyway.

[philly_bob]

58. Funding from arms manufacturers. (nt)

[bowens43]

59. never underestimte the stupidity of the American people. nt

[spin]

63. Perhaps Americans are not so stupid ....

and perhaps the Founding Fathers were very intelligent.

Some people claim that the reason our nation has the longest written constitution in the world is because of our Bill of Rights.

Contained in the Bill of Rights is the Second Amendment.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed



And what did the Founding Fathers say about firearms?

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,)

"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

"The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson

"The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
Source a letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright in 1824

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."
-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew.

[spin]

60. I believe that the "Chicken Little" theory explains this ...

For years the Brady Campaign used hyperbole to promote their views. They cried out in state after state where "shall issue" concealed carry was being considered that if the law passed there would be shootouts at every intersection and a return to the wild west. This never happened.

They used terms designed to cause emotional reaction such as "Saturday night specials", "cop killer bullets", "plastic guns", and currently "assault clips." They portrayed semi-auto firearms as fully automatic military class weapons and fostered the view that such weapons could be easily purchased over the counters of local gun stores and required no more paperwork than other firearms.

The main stream media gladly participated in Brady Campaign efforts to distort truth as they are fond of draconian gun control. Unfortunately for the Brady Campaign the media has little credibility with the majority of Americans.

The Brady Campaign could have worked to harder improved existing law and law enforcement but they chose to follow a different path in hopes that they could gradually implement restrictions and bans that would result in severely limiting or eventually eliminating gun ownership in our nation.

On their homepage at http://www.bradycampaign.org/ you will find a story that is very critical about the gun laws in Arizona but you will see no mention of the scandal at the ATF over the Fast and Furious program which allowed as many as 2500 firearms to be bought by straw purchasers and smuggled into Mexico. At a minimum you would expect an organization such as the Brady Campaign to call for a serious investigation of this failure by the ATF to accomplish one of their prime missions.

[DLnyc]

70. profit

[gejohnston]

73. That explains Helmke

taking a job at Brady Bunch, six figures for a skate job.

[ThoughtCriminal]

71. Not owning a gun is not a hobby or sport

So there are different motivations that have nothing to do with the level of support.

Unrec.

[ThoughtCriminal]

75. 1924: KKK membership was 4 million, NAACP - 90,000

Not to compare the NRA and the KKK, but to emphasize why comparisons like this are silly at best.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

76. Because more people support RIGHTS instead of RESTRICTIONS.

When it comes down to it.. the NRA defends RIGHTS and FREEDOMS while the Brady Campaign focuses on RESTRICTING and TAKING.

America was founded on the principles of freedom, choice, and personal responsibility.
Those are uniquely american qualities. It's no surprise that Amer-can prefer the NRA.