Cops: NRA guy's a pizza work

[TheCowsCameHome]

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1349514


This clown isn't wrapped very tightly. Or maybe too tightly.

Moran, at best.

[virgogal]

1. Morons everywhere,even in one of the best residential areas in Boston.

[brewens]

2. i'm surprised we don't see kids shot on Halloween. It's probably

a matter of time. Some kid waxing a guys windows will get blown away for it.

[Kali]

16. happened a couple years ago

in the town near me

kids pranking an older relative who had some mental problems, teenage girl shot in the back/ass - almost paralyzed

[brewens]

48. I should have known. No surprise at all. n/t

[lawodevolution]

55. Making stuff up? I'm sure you can provide a link to that Halloween story but

I think you made it up and no link will be posted.

[russ1943]

71. A famous, or should I say infamous Halloween victim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori, he knocked on the wrong door!

SUMTER, S.C. (AP) — The parents of a 12-year-old shot to death while trick-or-treating said Monday they hope the man accused of killing him suffers for the rest of his life. T.J. Darrisaw died Halloween night after police say a convicted felon unleashed a barrage of bullets from inside a home, pumping at least 29 shots through the closed door and front of the house. The boy's father and brother also were wounded.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-11-03-halloween-slaying_N.htm


Another one for egging.
A teen killed by a victim of a Halloween egging.
Atlanta Teen Murdered Over Halloween Prank. Authorities say a driver enraged because a 17-year-old boy allegedly egged his Mercedes on Halloween fatally shot the “prankster” in the neck and throat as he tried to run away.
http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff4/atlanta-teen-murdered-for-egging-car-on-halloween/




Gun enthusiasts think that if they aren't aware of something (or forgotten it) it didn't happen.

[brewens]

89. I'm lucky I didn't get shot at one time. We egged this guy from one hiding

spot and we could hear him going around the block. He was driving some kind of loud muscle car. We sprinted through a couple yards and got behind a tree around the corner from where we hit him the first time. He comes roaring down the street and we nailed him again and took off!

This time he tried to follow us on foot but had no chance of even coming close to catching us. At least he didn't hit the rake mines we had along our escape route.

[47of74]

3. Hell, he'll probably be getting a promotion at the NRA for this.

[eqfan592]

5. Nothing like some hyperbole to start off your day. Nt

[safeinOhio]

6. Gets the Ted Nugent Mad Man

award this year.
Ever wonder how Ted got elected by NRA members to the Board of Directors? Now you know.

[eqfan592]

7. So this guy is representative of the majority of NRA members in your opinion?

Wow, safe, just wow....

[safeinOhio]

9. Where did I say a majority?

He just represents the Ted Nugent faction. Who else would vote for that ass-hat.

Sorry, my apology if you voted for him.

[eqfan592]

11. No, I did not. Just misunderstood your implication.

My apologies.

[safeinOhio]

18. Honestly, I don't think most

members agree at all with the political faction of the NRA. They join for the safety classes, ranges and other benefits. Most members would be in favor of more restrictions on the purchase of handguns by criminals, terrorist and others that pose a danger to them and their families.

[eqfan592]

19. I do believe we already have restrictions on the purchasing of handguns...

...by those convicted of felonies (which would cover criminals and terrorists) as well as those who are classified as mentally ill. Not entirely sure what extra restrictions you feel are necessary...

[safeinOhio]

22. Back ground checks on all handgun sales,

for a start. I'd be more than happy with registration of handguns, being a legal buyer and user, it would not affect me in any negative way.

[eqfan592]

23. Again, there is already such a requirement.

At least if you are purchasing from a licensed dealer. Allowing some form of access to the background check system for private sales is an idea that I do support, but making it a requirement would be both difficult from a legal standpoint and unlikely to have any real impact on the crime rate for obvious reasons.

Registration schemes are not only potentially dangerous in the long term (no matter how little you feel it may effect you now) but have also proven to be ineffectual at impacting the crime rate when they have been implemented. When you add in the fact that it is a political poison pill, I really fail to see how it would be a worth while venture at all.

We could do a LOT more good with whatever political capital we would spend attempting to push the above issues if we directed that same capital attacking the actual root causes of crime, which appear to have little to do with guns but a lot to do with other various socio-economic issues such as education, poverty, gentrification, etc.

[safeinOhio]

24. I respect your opinion

but I don't share it.

[X_Digger]

26. How many crimes has registration prevented / solved, eh?

In CA, all handgun sales are registered and go through a background check.

Yet 80% of all guns (including handguns) used in crimes come from in-state.

[safeinOhio]

34. Here is a study of guns in Cali.

Table 3 and the Appendix
are available on our website
at http://ip.bmj.com/
supplemental
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Correspondence to:
Dr G J Wintemute, Violence
Prevention Research
Program, University of
California, Davis, Western
Fairs Building, UC Davis
Medical Center, 2315
Stockton Blvd, Sacramento,
CA 95817, USA;
[e-mail]
Accepted 8 May 2007

Objective: To describe gun shows and assess the impact of increased regulation on characteristics linked to
their importance as sources of guns used in crime.
Design: Cross-sectional, observational.
Subjects: Data were collected at a structured sample of 28 gun shows in California, which regulates these
events and prohibits undocumented private party gun sales; and in Arizona, Nevada, Texas and Florida—all
leading sources of California’s crime guns—where these restrictions do not exist.
Main outcome measures: Size of shows, measured by numbers of gun vendors and people in attendance;
number and nature of guns for sale by gun vendors; measures of private party gun sales and illegal surrogate
(‘‘straw’’) gun purchases.
Results: Shows in comparison states were larger, but the number of attendees per gun vendor was higher in
California. None of these differences was statistically significant. Armed attendees were more common in
other states (median 5.7%, interquartile range (IQR) 3.9–10.0%) than in California (median 1.1%, IQR 0.5–
2.2%), p = 0.0007. Thirty percent of gun vendors both in California and elsewhere were identifiable as
licensed firearm retailers. There were few differences in the types or numbers of guns offered for sale; vendors
elsewhere were more likely to sell assault weapons (34.9% and 13.3%, respectively; p = 0.001). Straw

purchases were more common in the comparison states (rate ratio 6.6 (95% CI 0.9 to 49.1), p = 0.06).
Conclusions: California’s regulatory policies were associated with a decreased incidence of anonymous,
undocumented gun sales and illegal straw purchases at gun shows. No significant adverse effects of these
policies were observed.


Looks like those laws do work

[eqfan592]

36. We've seen that study before.

The study failed to allow for observational bias, and given how much it relied on direct observation, then any conclusions reached from it are suspect at best.

Sorry, but this is not even close to conclusive evidence.

[gejohnston]

38. you realize that this was done by an MD and not a criminologist don't you?

His numbers are based on one student walking around a gun show counting the number of straw purchases to thinks he sees. How this one student knew what to look for and what a straw sale would look like was never explained. That is one of things wrong with it.

[safeinOhio]

40. If you look at all the major studies on

California, you'll see that if you take out Orange and LA counties, that state has a very low gun crime rate, even taking in the huge size and high population of San Diego county. Much lower than Arizona, Texas or Florida with their fewer restrictions on handgun sales.
Strange how all the recent studies by ATF show how many guns used in crimes are traced in Cali by county, there are no numbers on where they are traced to.

[gejohnston]

51. I'm more interested in violent crime as a whole.

gun crime is a pointless distraction to the real problem. Gun crimes are also less than 20 percent of all violent crime other than homicide. Vermont, which has the laxest gun laws in the US, in fact are non existent other than federal law has a homicide rate less that Japan. None of its seven homicides in 2010 involved a firearm. Rural California counties like Humbolt, Placer etc would have similar demographics as Vermont and Wyoming. Orange, LA, and San Deigo are major drug trade routes. These "gun crimes" are mostly gang hits. San Francisco, Somoma etc not so much from what I have seen. In short, gun laws are irrelevant because you are talking about two totally different gun cultures. The laws affect the culture that Me, Thom Hartmann's brother, Ed Shultz, Rick Perry, and the rest of us belong to. The problem is gang culture that use guns, and they don't go to Ace Hardware. Best way to take away their guns is to take away their money.

Traced to what, the specific store where the original buyer purchased it? How is that relevant? The origin is less important than how it got to the black market to begin with.

[X_Digger]

39. You didn't answer my question. n/t

[DanTex]

53. You're correct, but good luck getting this crowd to pay attention to scientific studies...

Regarding the effect on crime of state-by-state laws, one problem is that when states pass more restrictive gun laws, like in CA, it is relatively easy for criminals to just get guns from other nearby states with looser laws. That is why in CA, NY, etc. you find that so many guns used in crimes come from out of state. So, yes, policies like requiring an IBC for private sales are effective, but this really needs to be adopted nationally rather than just in a few states.

An interesting case study, by the way, is to look at the effect of gun control in Hawaii, which for obvious reasons is more insulated from out-of-state guns than, say, CA. It turns out that when Hawaii adopted stricter gun laws in 1981, there was indeed a measurable effect on homicide rates.

http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/UCLF-HawaiianExperience-2005

[gejohnston]

57. so you are saying that federal law that has been on the books since the

1930s is a failure? Buying handguns from nearby states have been a federal crime since 1938. It also does not take in account for the age of the typical crime gun, which is about 10 to 14 years old.
Scientific studies by criminologists, yes. Such a study done by at BATFE would be interesting too.

about violent crime:
http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html
Hawaii ranks at 36. DC is the worst at 1 while Maine and Wyoming are 50 and 43 respectively.

By Homicides, Hawaii is on par with gun friendly states like Utah, Wyoming, Vermont, and New Hampshire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

In this one, Hawaii is does have lower murder rate than most of the country, but the states with lower rates have very lax gun laws.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state

The press release or executive summary is interesting, but I would not call it a study. It kind of said the obvious and made an ad hoc conclusion.

[lawodevolution]

54. Garbage study. Thanks safeinohio

[safeinOhio]

41. Here is one big one

http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/04/19/california-gun-laws-prevented-pentagon-gunman-john/

California gun laws prevented Pentagon gunman from buying gun

The head of the state’s Bureau of Firearms says the fact that Bedell couldn’t buy a gun in California is proof that “our system worked.” But 19 days after he was stopped from buying a gun in California, Bedell purchased one — a 9 millimeter Ruger — at a gun show in Nevada.

[eqfan592]

43. Sorry, but a single incident does not equate to hard statistical data.

Their system worked "in this specific case" would be a more accurate way of putting it.

[safeinOhio]

45. I thought

"One big one" covered that angle.

[eqfan592]

46. Just noticed what post you were replying to. My bad.

Tho I stand by my statement, you post makes sense in the context of the post you were replying to.

[X_Digger]

49. So your answer is.. "one"? n/t

[gejohnston]

52. California law or

Federal law and NICS. He bought it from a private individual who does not have access to NICS by law. I am guessing most of us don't like that situation anymore than you do. On the other hand, for the feds to require it of intrastate sales of private sales, that could violate the commerce Claus, not being a lawyer, it would seem to at least. If I understand the Federal Firearms act of 1938 and Gun Control Act of 1968 correctly, the seller in Nevada committed a federal crime, just like it would be a federal crime for me to buy a gun in Arizona. It would be federal crime to sell one to Sarah Palin for that matter. Should the seller be in federal court? Yes. Will he? I doubt it.
You were an ADA, how many federal gun law violations ever make it to federal court? Things like being a felon in possession, unregistered sawed off shotgun or rifle, that were part of another crime? I hope I am wrong, but I doubt many. Of course, a felon can not be charged with violating NFA34, because SCOTUS decided that would violate 5th amendment to expect a felon to register a gun. Which is one problem I have with registration, it creates a crime I can be charged with but G Gordon Liddy would have immunity from just for being a felon.

[RSillsbee]

27. Registration won't affect you in any negative way

Until they decide to confiscate your handguns.

[MineralMan]

4. Uff da! That wasn't a great representation of the NRA,

I'd think. Perhaps he won't be an NRA instructor anymore, or a concealed carrier, either. My understanding was that it's very, very hard to get a permit to carry concealed in MA. Interesting.

[gejohnston]

13. assuming he is for real

For some reason, Walter Mitty comes to mind. Most people would put firearms instructor or simply instructor.

[MineralMan]

14. Of course. I suppose we'd find out if we followed the story.

I won't be bothering, because I don't care all that much. He's a moron, whatever the story turns out to be in the end. So many morons...so little time.

[crim son]

8. A guy like that could give guns a bad name!

Oh, wait.

[DrDan]

10. one further example of a gun-owner thinking they can take the law into their own hands

[gejohnston]

12. what law is that?

As far as I could tell, the pizza guy was minding his own business. This guy seems like he watched Grand Toreno too many times and got the line wrong.

[ileus]

15. so just what do they consider "properly secured"?

[Hoyt]

17. This is 4th or 5th similar report of "certified" instructors misusing guns I've seen on DU.

Maybe every gun owner/carrier should be "retrained" and background rechecked.

[eqfan592]

20. Retrained by who?

Would it not be the same group of trainers that you seem to think are incompetent (based only on a handful of stories, mind you) that would perform the retraining? Or are you suggesting only certain people, such as LEO's be allowed to train? If so, I think there's a few bad apples in that group as well. And you know, I've heard of a few bad road examiners and driving school instructors, so maybe all drivers should be brought in and retrained. See where this is going?


And what in the background check would be turned up that would have aided in this case that wasn't turned up the first time?

[ileus]

21. What's really needed is to remove all firearms and ammo from the public.

[east texas lib]

25. You should start confiscating them all then, immediately...

I breathlessly await an OP showcasing your valiant efforts and success thereof.:D

[Hoyt]

29. Not the dang sham NRA courses -- that's for sure.

[oneshooter]

35. Then who would you recommend for training, if not the "sham" NRA. n/t

[X_Digger]

50. Who do you think trains the cops?!? *snort*

http://www.nrahq.org/law/training/training.asp

Derp.

[oneshooter]

28. How much firearms training do you have? And when did you last refresh your training? n/t

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

31. Anyone who "hopes to get a real chance someday"

Has never had one

[RSillsbee]

32. Let me clarify the question

What actual formal training have you had? What classes please be specific) have you attended ? how often do you attend refresher training?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. Hoyt, you've just contradicted yourself:

"Sham"? Many police departments might disagree.


http://www.nrahq.org/law/training/training.asp

The NRA as an organization has been providing firearms training, competition, and safety programs since its inception in 1871. Political issues aside, it has long been considered the leading authority in the promotion, instruction, and certification of safe, effective, firearm handling, and has been doing this longer than any other organization in the world.

The Law Enforcement Division (LED) of the NRA was established in 1960 specifically to provide the law enforcement community with a “certified” and standardized law enforcement firearm instructor training program. Over the last 50 years, we have trained more than 50,000 law enforcement firearm instructors and currently have over 11,000 instructors....

These 11,000 would be the people training those that you've claimed are better trained than civilians, would they not?


Some examples, in case you've forgotten:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=324016#324067

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=334510#334718

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=341484

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=347851#347902

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=392900

[oneshooter]

44. So no formal, tested and proven training.

Ya know the type, with teachers, and range time, and pass-fail testing?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

47. I'm grandfathered in and didn't get trained by the incompetents training toters today.

Nor, was I interested in how to shoot someone, loads to do the most damage, the laws that allow you to shoot someone, what to do after you shoot them, how to tote your gun, and all the other BS that you guys consider "training."

[jeepnstein]

59. Seriously?

That's your answer? You're old and know it all so everyone else is wrong? Is that your qualification?

I was really hoping you'd elaborate on the time you learned to field strip a 1911 under water. That course sounded fascinating. Unless of course it was just fiction.

[Hoyt]

61. No, I don't know it all. I do know that more than a few "certified" instructors can't handle guns.

Since I don't carry in public, I don't need to get the training required for a permit. You guys wouldn't either if you could leave your home without a gun or two.

As to breaking down 1911 underwater it was just a fun thing that a former member of Coast Guard taught me -- AGAIN FOR FUN. Also, like to sing "Semper Paratus is our guide. . . . . ."

[jeepnstein]

63. Okay.

So you're not really "grandfathered" into anything. You're just blowing smoke. And now the 1911 thing was just for "fun". It's all quite clear to me now.

[Straw Man]

66. Another vote for ignorance.

Since I don't carry in public, I don't need to get the training required for a permit.

Because safe gun handling isn't important at home, right? After all, the only people you'd be endangering would be your family, friends, neighbors, and yourself.

[Hoyt]

68. No that is not correct. I have plenty of training on that and the law does not require additional.

But, the law does require those who pack in public in most states to take training to qualify for a permit. I think that training should be by someone other than the NRA whose main purpose is promoting more friggin guns.

Anyone who can accept all the stories of inept trainers is not interested in anything but someone getting a piece of paper supposedly indicating they have "training" -- whether effective or ineffective -- so they can get their dang permit to walk around with a gun.

[Straw Man]

73. Who provided your training?

How about a practical alternative to the NRA? Help us out here.

[oneshooter]

77. In Texas the training is done by DPS certified instructors, no NRA involved. n/t

[Hoyt]

81. If we gotta have gun toters, that's better training than relying on a lobbying organization loyal

to manufacturers and those who believe a house and waistband full of guns is true heaven on earth.

[rl6214]

87. Can you EVER stop with the bullshit and give a reasonable

responsible answer?

I doubt it, always need to have the hyperbole and shtick, never a straight answer.

[Straw Man]

107. How about YOUR training?

Why do you keep dodging the question?

[jeepnstein]

108. Blowing smoke.

The training that makes some people experts is all in their heads. That's really not all that unusual with a certain kind of gun owners. You ought to see some of the unsafe and moronic things they do when they have a firearm in their hands. Coopers Rules seemingly do not apply to them in the alternate reality they weave.

[oneshooter]

64. So you have had no formal training, no refresher training,

and no certification of any training. You are a untrained, unaccountable, firearm owner. A old man who could go off the deep end at any time. When was your last physical and psychiatric exam? Has your local Law Enforcement officials been informed of this lack of provable training? Do you possess both arms and ammo in the same location? If so then are the weapons disassembled, locked up and the keys surrendered to local Law Enforcement?
You sir can be a danger to others, possessing firearms without proper documentation of safety training, documentation of responsible firearms use, with out the proper refresher training and documentation of same.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Straw Man]

65. So when police train with silhouette targets ...

... is it because they're hoping they'll get a chance to shoot someone someday?

[Hoyt]

69. Nope, police pretty much have to carry guns in this country because of the gun culture.

You and I don't need to carry guns. And quite frankly, I would not train with a silhouette target. Further, I think that any person who is not in law enforcement -- but practices with silhouette targets -- is exhibiting disturbing behavioral issues.

[Straw Man]

72. Sorry, wrong answer.

I offer in rebuttal the armed police in dozens of "unarmed" countries.

Further, I think that any person who is not in law enforcement -- but practices with silhouette targets -- is exhibiting disturbing behavioral issues.

I see. Because no one who isn't in law enforcement will ever have to use a gun in self-defense? Or because people who aren't in law enforcement can count on being confronted only by attackers who look like this?

[gejohnston]

74. So why do Japanese cops carry guns? since

they don't have a gun culture. They don't carry Tasers, but they do have pistols. Norway and New Zealand has gun cultures almost as vibrant as ours and their cops don't carry guns for the most part.

[Hoyt]

75. Obviously you have not studied Norway where people don't carry in public and mere ownership

requires a permit. You'll find much the same in New Zealand too.

Now, if gunners want to adopt Norway's laws, I can quit posting here. But, you guys would freak if anyone proposed laws similar to those countries.

[gejohnston]

78. Obvious? How? You missed the point.

I am fairly familiar with their laws, not as much as I am with US and Canadian laws, but familiar enough. I already knew the licensing and safe storage laws etc.

Norway's crime rate is less than Japan's, so why bother carrying if you could? But that has nothing to do with crime rate. Most European gun laws were passed for reasons having nothing to do with crime or civilization. It was about keeping guns out of the hands of leftist radicals after WW one. In other words, they were more concerned about Amy Goodman than the Tucson shooter.

I am still waiting for a compelling interest the state would have to adopt what you want. We hear a lot about what you think or what you feel, but that is not how good public policy is made. Canada went adopted what you propose and it did nothing positive. Definitely can't point to UK, Jamaica, or Mexico.

[Hoyt]

80. Stopping more guns on street is positive-- maybe not to 4% who can't leave home without one or two.

It might help move us to a gun culture where carrying them, owning more and more of them, etc., is no longer accepted.

I know, the thought probably makes some here pucker.

[gejohnston]

83. There was a time when that was so

started by right wing oligarchs who wanted their anti union thugs and the Klan to have safer work environments. It started to fall apart when the violent crime rate was at an all time high. Once again,

[Hoyt]

88. That poster looks like something right out of TBag assembly hall.

[gejohnston]

90. Tbagers don't give a shit about guns

but it is accurate.

[Hoyt]

94. TBaggers love guns. Worse, they use minorities with guns to scare people.

Exactly , where did you get the image of the pretty white girl with "nice gun" and scary minority with a "bad gun?"

[Straw Man]

96. What minority? Oh, you mean the silhouette?

How can you tell what race he/she is? Gangbangers come in all colors, y'know.

[Hoyt]

98. BS -- The message it sends is clear. Still would like to know from whence it came?

It is also the same message that made folks run out and stock up on ammo and guns right after Obama was elected. You know, "to take their country back" BS?

[gejohnston]

100. another case of the media getting it wrong and becomes conventional wisdom

Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark|Summer of the Shark>. Many on the right makes the same mistake with the "worlds greatest gun salesman" poster. Tactually, the honor goes to "horse show judge" Brownie. The buying spree started after Katrina and how screwed up FEMA and law enforcement was. After the Rodney King riots, I would not doubt sales of ABWs went up after seeing LA cops retreat, leaving an entire neighborhood at the mercy of rioters.
The typical tbagger is a follower of propaganda.

[Hoyt]

102. The typical TBagger still clings to his/her gun in public, and it's not strictly for self-defense.

[gejohnston]

103. The only tbaggers I ever met were from NY or Ohio suburbs and did not know

anything about guns. Go up to the average gun person in Wyoming or Utah, they would look at you funny. How many tbaggers do you know? What do you base this information on?

[eqfan592]

105. The only BS is your constant playing of the "racist" card.

The reason why there was a stocking up on guns and ammo after Obama was elected had a lot more to do with fears (some well founded, others not) of possible sweeping gun control legislation than it did racism. But of course, you likely knew that.

What is somewhat amusing to me when I see the picture in question is that the ONLY time in my life that I have been shot it was by somebody who looked just like the "thug" on the right side, and he was a white guy.

[gejohnston]

99. from an east European immigrant named Oleg Volk

For all I know the blonde could be his daughter.
The point is not nice gun or bad gun. There are no good or bad guns unless you believe they have souls. The issue is nice person with gun or bad person with gun.
You assumed the gangster was a minority. biker gangs wear doo rags too, and they tend to be white. There are plenty of whites in gangs like Crips and Bloods (something a cop told me about in a neighborhood I lived in. I was walking to the corner store in my AF blue uniform while living in a "red" neighborhood.. I never put any thought in the race of one or possible race of another. Thugs are scary regardless where their ancestors came from. Which is interesting. Even after being around the world, the same images come to mind to certain words as I would as a kid back in Wyoming. For example, to drug dealer I still picture a white guy in a Dodge Charger. A Hispanic in East LA would picture a Hispanic. etc. Now, the racist is the woman got goes to the other side of the street when she sees an African American wearing a coat and tie coming in her direction, but not so much if a thug looking white.

[Hoyt]

101. Oleg seems to have quite a reputation. The image is still BS.

[gejohnston]

104. I guess he does. How is it BS?

Do you think guns have souls? Here are a couple of my favorites.

Not exactly meets your Tea Bagger meme




This father/daughter one is different

[oneshooter]

79. How about shooting steel dingers? Or bowling pins? n/t

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

86. "Not into training to shoot people nowadays,[B] like most here[B/].

Cite to proof or you are just proving yourself to be the damn liar that you always are.

You are saying that most gun owners here on DU train to shoot people.

[Hoyt]

95. Have you ever used silhouette targets; practiced drawing; bought/made special loads; and such?

Do you have high cap mags? Do you covet guns manufactured and marketed to look like military weapons?

Bet you have.

[Straw Man]

97. Do the police "train to shoot people"?

They do all those things.

[jeepnstein]

109. You betcha we do.

It's been that way for many years. What works for Elmer Fudd doesn't always get it for police work.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lawodevolution]

56. I call BS on brandishing stories until a video or photo is provided

I can claim someone flashed a gun when they didnt.

[TheCowsCameHome]

58. We'll make a note of that.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ileus]

60. I saw that...you threatened me...just now....yeah...

[lawodevolution]

110. Stop waving that gun at the screen when you respond to my posts

[Remmah2]

62. A "purported" firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association

Purported by whom?



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/purported

[safeinOhio]

67. A few years back

I was at a flee marker and met a man with a cast on his hand. I asked what happened and he explained that he had accidently shot himself in the hand while cleaning his pistol. Then he went on to tell me that he had been an NRA safety instructor for 36 years.


My experience leads me to believe that
MURPHY'S LAW GOES DOUBLE FOR GUNS.

anything that can go wrong, will. Most of those here that complain about others not following basic safety rules, have at one time or another violated those same rules at one time or another.

[gejohnston]

70. that reminds me of what my high school shop teacher once said,

that master electricians get zapped more than apprentices because of over confidence. I want to know how you shoot yourself while cleaning.

[oneshooter]

76. Are you still going to push for regestration and full background checks

for cap and ball revolvers, and flintlock pistols?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[safeinOhio]

84. You still pushing to make it easy

for felons to buy handguns with no questions asked?

[gejohnston]

85. how is that?

[oneshooter]

91. When have I ever said that. Cite to proof, please. Or retract that foul statement. n/t

[safeinOhio]

92. Gladly, when you show me where you

have ever supported mandatory background checks on private sales of handguns.

[oneshooter]

93. I have never voiced an opinion either way. Now cough up your "proof". n/t

[X_Digger]

106. And.. the false choice, for $100, Alex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma