Armed guards in Newark Fast-Food Joints at Night ...

[spin]

City Council Votes for Armed Guards to Patrol Newark Fast-Food Joints at Night
Restaurant owners balk at security costs; initiative would take effect next month unless Booker intervenes.
By Tom Llamas
| Friday, Jul 8, 2011 | Updated 12:07 PM EDT

On the heels of an uptick in violence that claimed the life of an off-duty cop, Newark's city council voted Thursday to require all late-night restaurants that serve less than 20 people at a time to have an armed security guard posted from 9 p.m. to closing.

The vote comes less than two months after veteran Newark police officer William Johnson was gunned down standing at the counter of a fast-food restaurant in New Jersey's largest city waiting for a slice of pizza. He was off-duty at the time and not the intended target of the drive-by shooting.

Restaurant owners feared hiring security guards would strangle their finances.

Newark has tried to drive crime down, touting a 25 percent drop in the murder rate compared with last year.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/City-Council-Votes-for-Armed-Guards-to-Patrol-Newark-Fast-Food-Joints-at-Night-125205659.html

Newark law requires nightly armed guards at small restaurants
NEW YORK | Fri Jul 8, 2011 4:56pm EDT

(Reuters) - Small restaurants in Newark, New Jersey will be required to post an armed security guard on their premises at night under a new law approved by the city council.

***snip***

"If they want to stay open that late, they should provide security. If not, they should close," said Councilman Ras Baraka, who wrote the bill, in a telephone interview.

The ordinance might encourage business owners to upgrade their restaurants into the kind of "quality" establishments where people sit down for a meal and are less likely to attract loiterers than cheaper fast-food places, said Keith Hamilton, an aide to Baraka.

"These restaurants who serve 15 or less people, walk-in eateries where you get your food and you leave, they are havens for criminal activity," he said.emphasis added
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/08/us-newark-restaurants-idUSTRE7676BY20110708

US city requires armed guards at some restaurants

Small restaurants in the city of Newark, New Jersey will be required to have an armed security guard at night under a new law approved by the city council.

***snip***

Jamil Nahiam, owner of the restaurant where the shooting occurred, said he opposes the ordinance, saying it places an expensive and unfair burden on small business owners to do something that should be the responsibility of the police.

"The ordinance is going to put us out of business. If that's what his intention was, I think he's going to succeed," Nahiam said in a telephone interview.

He said it was unrealistic to expect him to turn his business into a sit-down dining establishment.emphasis added
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/72476/us-city-requires-armed-guards-at-some-restaurants

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Because federal and state revenues have been slashed, there are no public officers

to guard these stores. And it's quasi-privatization as stores have to pick up the tab but they're also mandated by law to protect themselves.

Shock Doctrine.

[gejohnston]

2. Reminds me of when I was in the Philippines

Everyplace had an armed guard, even the book stores.

[eqfan592]

7. Were there ever public officers...

...actually stationed at the stores to guard them? This would seem to fall outside the realm of typical police work...

[no_hypocrisy]

9. Police beats have been curtailed in Newark.

The reason why crime at these stores has increased is, because like Camden, there is no fear of getting caught.

[MicaelS]

14. Are you advocating that the police

Should be posted and be required to protect specific businesses?

[no_hypocrisy]

16. No, just better coverage of commercial areas after dark.

The foot patrolman who pounds the beat.

[gejohnston]

3. what happened to this concept

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x434403#434415

[ileus]

5. It should have been read as advocating that members prepare to defend themselves.

to say it's advocating violence is to imply criminal activity....not to be confused with self defense against criminal activity.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

4. Let me just say it's not legal CCers they're worried about...

[spin]

6. Not many people have concealed carry permits in New Jersey ...

Concealed carry in the United States

***snip***

New Jersey is a "may issue" state, and issues permits to residents and non-residents. Out of a population of 8,000,000 people there are less than 1,000 handgun carry permits in the state (including armed professionals other than law enforcement officers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

New Jersey Concealed Carry Permit Information

Concealed Permit:
May Issue to Residents and Non-Residents
Issuance of the permit is almost completely discretionary, and New Jersey courts have upheld the policy of strictly limiting permits “to persons pecifically employed in security work . . . and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection.”

Issuing Authority:

Application is made to the police chief where the applicant resides or to the Superintendent of State Police if the community does not have a police chief or if the applicant is a nonresident. The licensing authority makes a recommendation to a judge of the Superior Court who grants or denies the permit. The judge may also place restrictions on the permit.
http://www.usacarry.com/new_jersey_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

[ileus]

8. NJ needs to adopt Shall Issue it seems. with a healthy dose of OC...

[spin]

11. Yup (n/t)

[RSillsbee]

12. What is the purpose of the armed guard?

The vote comes less than two months after veteran Newark police officer William Johnson was gunned down standing at the counter of a fast-food restaurant in New Jersey's largest city waiting for a slice of pizza. He was off-duty at the time and not the intended target of the drive-by shooting.


So, how exactly, is an armed guard inside the restaurant supposed to stop drive-by shootings?

[one-eyed fat man]

13. It's Newark, they are the designated target.

They are there to draw fire. While they are getting shot at, the other patrons can seek cover.

[saras]

20. +1000 - you obviously know Newark

[spin]

18. Well it will provide jobs. Low paying ones...

One of the grocery stores I used to shop at in Tampa before I retired had an armed guard during the day. I asked the manager why and he avoid my question. I doubt that it was to deter shop lifters.

Some people on this forum ask me why I feel I can't leave the house without a firearm. When the U-SAVE within walking distance of your home has an armed guard and the owner of the newspaper and book store you stop by after work has a holstered Smith % Wesson snub nosed revolver on his belt you can easily appreciate that there is a possibility that carrying a legal firearm might prove beneficial at some point.

If I lived in New Jersey, I wouldn't be allowed to legally carry concealed unless I had LOTS of influence.

New Jersey is a "may issue" state, and issues permits to residents and non-residents. Out of a population of 8,000,000 people there are less than 1,000 handgun carry permits in the state (including armed professionals other than law enforcement officers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

Interesting enough there are more people with concealed carry permits in Florida than the population of New Jersey. As of May 31, 2011 there were 819,135 individuals with carry permits in Florida. (source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html)

Now if I opposed concealed carry and read this post, I would point out that even with this many people allowed to carry concealed in Florida, the U-SAVE grocery store had an armed guard. To which I would reply that I am not a cop, an armed guard or a vigilante and the overwhelming majority of people with carry permits in Florida feel just as I do.

[Blown330]

15. Level of hypocrisy involved in this proposed legislation...

....is astounding. An off-duty COP was shot. That's about as good as it gets for armed security for these establishments. Didn't seem to work then and I'm pretty sure it won't work going forward. NJ is about to pay some heft law suit fines in the near future.

[Angry Dragon]

17. Just put a tank on every corner

[spin]

19. Bring in the national guard with fully auto assault rifles...

that was suggested for Chicago.

2 Chicago state reps: Bring in the National Guard
April 25, 2010 10:48 PM

Two state representatives called on Gov. Pat Quinn Sunday to deploy the Illinois National Guard to safeguard Chicago's streets.

Chicago Democrats John Fritchey and LaShawn Ford said they want Quinn, Mayor Richard Daley and Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis to allow guardsmen to patrol streets and help quell violence. Weis said he did not support the idea because the military and police operate under different rules. emphasis added
http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/04/state-reps-want-to-fight-violence-with-national-guards-help.html

[saras]

21. WTF???

Is it a corporatist plan to get rid of neighborhood restaurants that compete with fast food chains?

Or do they just want the kind of population that would feel comfortable going to a restaurant with armed guards?

Seriously. I would no more go out for dinner at a place with an armed guard than I'd have sex with a couple of Marines posted at the bedroom door to keep the kids out.

Personally I think the restaurant owners should just hire street people as guards. They'll fix the law soon enough. Might lose a few customers first, though.

[ZombieHorde]

22. Seems weird. Maybe because I don't live in Newark. nt

[Abq_Sarah]

23. That's just strange

They want small restaurants to be held responsible for protecting customers from drive by shootings?