I Just F***ING Shot Myself - This will be a YouTube Classic

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC5nh172Dt4&feature=player_embedded

Derek "Tex" Grebner, who describes himself on his YouTube channel as "a pretty unprofessional outdoors show host and an unbiased online gear reviewer," accidentally shot himself in the leg with a Kimber Pro Carry II .45 while drawing his weapon.

He's since uploaded the video to YouTube as a warning that "negligent discharges happen."

Earlier in the day, Grebner had been practicing "how to draw and fire from defensive retention" with his Glock and a different holster. On that particular holster, the gun is released by pressing a button with your thumb. This button, Grebner explains, is in the same location as the safety on the Kimber, the gun that he shot himself with.

"When I went to draw my pistol, I pushed down and took off the safety," he says in the video. "Then I pulled up. The gun did not release...so as I pulled up, I hit that, my finger curled into the trigger guard and I ripped a round through my leg."

http://weirdnews.aol.com/2011/07/11/man-shoots-himself_n_894591.html

[Drale]

1. Imagine what historians of the future will think

when they watch the stuff on you tube. Theres some funny stuff but it proves everyday that you can't fix stupid.

[eqfan592]

2. The guy screwed up, there's no doubting that.

But he's sharing his experience with others in the hopes of teaching them all a lesson that he had to learn the hard way, and in doing so himself exposing himself to a great deal of ridicule from those unwilling to give an ounce (such as yourself).

[RamboLiberal]

3. +1 I have to give him credit for that

I can also understand how it happened. Muscle memory of performing a certain action can cause a brain fart in an instance like this.

Like in matches on a stage putting magazines in pocket. Dang if most of the time my hand, and hands of many other shooters didn't head for that mag pouch on a reload.

If you're going to use a retention type holster would probably be a good idea to make all your belt holsters be a same manufacturer retention holster.

[eleny]

4. self delete

[eqfan592]

5. The safey was disengaged as he was trying to remove it from the holster.

I believe it says this in the OP....

[eleny]

6. i did

[eqfan592]

7. Not sure what to tell you then, as it answers it right there... nt

[eleny]

8. I saw it and deleted my posting before you politely responsed to my question

Thanks.

[saras]

9. self-delete

[vi5]

10. He handled it pretty well...

..both in terms of his immediate reaction which unlike I would be, was fairly calm and collected. But also choosing to share the video and teach a lesson.

[pacalo]

11. He was an ace.

:eyes:

[eqfan592]

12. See post #2. nt

[krispos42]

31. Well, if he was really preparing to deal with an attacker..

...he should have still pumped a couple of rounds into the target even after shooting himself. Because in real life, that wound on his leg may just have come from the attacker (inches away) slashing him with a knife or crushing his knee with a club.

:shrug:

However, he did place the gun carefully on the ground before limping away and cursing, so kudos for that.

[AzWorker]

13. SERPA holsters are VERY dangerous

They require inward pressure with the trigger finger to release the firearm from the holsters retention mechanism, combine that with a fast draw and that remaining inward pressure can find it's way into the trigger guard before you want it there....

Unfortunately these holsters are popular with LEO and MIL....

[PavePusher]

39. Addressed below.

I've never heard of an N.D. with one that was ever attributable to the holster and not the operator.

[AzWorker]

50. I've never heard of an N.D. with one that was ever attributable to the holster and not the operator.

Thats because the holster did not depress the trigger, the operator did....

The point is, that if the holster did not require inward pressure with the trigger finger then his finger would not had found it's way into the trigger guard prematurely in the first place.

I hope it never happens to you, and yes it takes a 'perfect storm' of events, but it happens.

[Abq_Sarah]

45. No, they're not dangerous.

It's one of the best and safest holster designs on the market.

When you depress the release and withdraw your pistol, your trigger finger will be on the frame unless you deliberately reach down and curl your finger towards the trigger. You have to be reaching for the trigger, it doesn't happen accidentally.

The guy in the video was trying to get ahead of the holster and he screwed up. Don't touch the trigger until you clear the holster and you won't blow a hole through your leg.

[Hoyt]

14. And I bet that guy carriers a gun or two in public. What's the attraction to shooting such targets?

Hey honey, I'm going out to the range today to bone up on shooting people.

[eqfan592]

15. He may indeed carry one or two in public.

And no matter how much you like to imply otherwise, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that so long as it is done legally. As far as using silhouette targets, if one is training for defensive firearm usage, it only makes sense to use a target that resembles that which you would be defending yourself from.

[Hoyt]

18. I guess it makes sense to you, not to me.

[eqfan592]

19. Yup. nt

[petronius]

24. It really doesn't make sense to you? Really?

You know, there's a fine line between playing dumb as a rhetorical tool and playing dumb in a way that makes you look incredibly foolish. If you look back quickly, you might just see that line...

[Hoyt]

44. "Foolish" is never forgetting to strap on a gun or two before you can leave home.

[eqfan592]

53. No, foolish is pretending that you can't understand the reasoning behind somebody doing it.

You may not AGREE with the reasoning, but your "Oh gee I just don't get it" routine is just embarrassing for you. But hey, feel free to keep it up. Folks such as yourself do far more to forward the cause of gun rights than you may ever know. ;)

[lawodevolution]

26. Hoyt, that makes you special and rare.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoyt]

42. Did your "Ignore List" fail this time, or what?

[PavePusher]

35. Is he bitching about silhouette targets again?

The same guy who wants everyone to have more life-like training? I guess he thinks criminals have 10 inch concentric circles on their torso's?

What a maroooon.

[RamboLiberal]

43. Maybe he would like these better?

[AndyTiedye]

62. You Really Need Long Swords to Go After Those Zombies

As you can see, bullets would go right through, There aren't really any vital organs there,
since the thing is already dead. You need to dismember zombies to disable them.
For that a long sword is good.

A shotgun blast would slow them down a little, but pistols and rifles are useless
against zombies.

[eqfan592]

54. Hoyt is going to bitch about anything that a person with a gun does.

No matter how much of a hypocrite it makes him, he WILL complain about it.

[ileus]

21. round circles are for target shooting...

[Tejas]

58. THIS GUY not only CARRIES A GUN IN public, but CLASSROOMS too.

But I digress,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

he's a proffessional!

[RSillsbee]

16. This is EXACTLY why I only carry one type of handgun

a DA/SA w/ the hammer down and the safety off

[Endangered Specie]

61. Exactly what I recommend everyone else do with their self-defense weapons.

Stick to one brand, maybe two but only if the action type is the same.

For example, Glock, get a big one for home, small one for carry. If you need even smaller get an LCP or something else like it, they all function virtually the same as far as manual of arms goes.
If you are going to go with 1911s, use a small 1911 for carry or one of those sig .380's that are SA and manual safety. Big one for the house w 10rd mags.

The key is to have as few manual-of-arms to need to remember as possible.

[one-eyed fat man]

17. Boy, THAT's gonna leave a mark.... nt

[ileus]

20. Good on him for releasing this embarrassing PSA, hopefully we can all learn from it.

[pipoman]

22. Here is his video statement and explaination

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE&feature=related

[benEzra]

23. There are a lot of people who avoid that particular holster due to the retention catch placement.

It can work fine for a lot of people, but switching up guns and holsters is probably a bad idea, and you have to be religious about keeping your finger away from the trigger when using a Serpa.

Personally, I don't open-carry and am not required to, so I prefer a standard thumb-break or fitted kydex. If I were in the market for a retention holster, I'd go with a Safariland, I think.

[ileus]

25. Safariland makes one with a thumb plunger...

I think it's safariland at least....it makes more sense to me than a serpa or Itac. At least the retention release is between the hip and the gun making for an easy draw motion using the thumb to disengage the "latch".

just did a search....seems that Fobus and 5.11 have thumb release holsters, I'm sure there's others. Like most I don't like the trigger finger releases.

[RamboLiberal]

28. he said the release was with thumb

Makes sense since he managed to off safety. Then he got index finger on trigger way before he should have.

[AzWorker]

29. "he said the release was with thumb"......no

The holster he had been working with earlier had thumb release retention (511 brand).

He transitioned to the SERPA (trigger finger release) and his first drawstroke was an attempt using the previous thumb release method. That drawstroke resulted in him thumbing off the safety, once he realised it was a trigger finger release he restarted the drawstroke. The continuing inward pressure of the trigger finger, in conjunction with the speed of the draw resulted in a finger inside the trigger guard before his sights were on the target.....

#1 Safety off
#2 trigger finger in trigger guard
#3 trigger finger on trigger
#4 firearm pointed at leg
#5 ouch
#6 youtube

The SERPA has IMO, a design flaw that requires inward pressure with the trigger finger when it should be doing no such thing.

[PavePusher]

32. Not a design flaw, a mistake by the operator.

Every SERPA holster I've seen (and I use their 1911 version myself) has the button above the trigger (when the gun is horizontal) and after pressing and drawing, leaves the trigger finger indexed on the slide above the trigger and guard. Your finger can only go into the trigger area if you move it downwards after the gun releases from the holster.

I can see this happening if transitioning quickly between two different holsters and guns, as finger placement will differ slightly, and you do need to adjust your movements accordingly. It didn't help that after having the gun hang up due to incorrect usage, he continued his draw without stopping and deliberately rethinking/recalibrating his actions.

[AzWorker]

36. People that have well over 1k hrs of structured live fire training...

....have shot themselves when using this holster. I'm not alking dirt shooters here, I'm talking pros..

Trust me, it has issues. It sets the stage for failure.

[PavePusher]

38. Sorry, we'll have to disagree on this one.

I've used mine for almost 4 years, daily carry and training, and never had my finger in the trigger guard after a draw.

Edit: It's been the issue holster of my USAF unit for almost as long, and this has never happened in training or during deployments.

[AzWorker]

56. "Finally, a thought on the whole it’s never happened to me defense mechanism"

"I've used mine for almost 4 years, daily carry and training, and never had my finger in the trigger guard after a draw.

Edit: It's been the issue holster of my USAF unit for almost as long, and this has never happened in training or during deployments."


I'm glad to hear you have had no incidents.

The below quote is from an instructor named Todd Green, I thought it fits into this debate well...

"Finally, a thought on the whole it’s never happened to me defense mechanism: Experience is what you earn from your mistakes. Wisdom is what you learn from someone else’s."

[Abq_Sarah]

46. I've been using the level 2 and level 3

Holsters for a couple of years, problem free. I have a level 2 for a Kimber Pro Aegis II and a level 3 for my Glock. In my concealed carry classes, I recommend the level 2 whenever possible. If your drawing skills are sloppy, you can shoot yourself regardless of what type of holster you use.

[Euromutt]

48. I'm going to have to go with PavePusher on this one

I use SERPAs myself, and they are quite safe, provided you use them as intended. The key, I think, is that you need to keep your finger straight and depress the release button with the pad of your finger. I suspect people who have suffered NDs using this holster curved their fingers and pushed the button with the tip, and if you do that, I can see how your finger might easily slip inside the trigger guard. Now, if you're of the Massad Ayoob school of keeping your finger curved on the frame (in order to prevent it from slipping inside the trigger guard due to Sympathetic Response while clenching your hand), then you probably shouldn't be using a SERPA; it's simply not compatible with that particular technique.

But then, I'd point out that you probably shouldn't own a 5.11 Thumbdrive holster for your Glock either, if you also own any varierty of 1911 or other handgun with a frame-mounted, thumb-operated manual safety.

[RamboLiberal]

41. Edit: It's a Serpa

Longer video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE&feature=player_embedded

He shows the wound. Lucky he was using FMJ and not a hollow point.

[PavePusher]

37. Unless you are moving your finger up or down during the draw....

(which you shouldn't do with any holster), drawing from a SERPA leaves your finger indexed along the slide, above the trigger, exactly as desired. It's an individual training and practice issue.

[lawodevolution]

27. Very good information

[krispos42]

30. Here's a video of how a SERPA holster works

http://www.blackhawkvideo.com/videos/retailweb/Level3SERPA.wmv

I didn't know myself until I watched it.


All the more reason to find a model of gun to carry, and stick with it! It's why there is such variety of models within the same family of handgun.

Carry a big Glock in the open, carry a little Glock concealed. Carry a big 1911 in the open, carry a little 1911 concealed. Carry a big XD in the open. Carry a little XD concealed. And so on.


You can have fun with anything. But for self-defense, find something you like and then stay within the family. One less thing to worry about when the shit hits the fan.

[AzWorker]

34. Notice how he uses the pad of his finger to engage the mechanism

Thats all well and good until until you find yourself in a stressful situation, whether training induced or a real life use of force situation.

When that happens most fine motor skills degrade under the adreniline rush brought on by the 'fight or flight' response. Training takes hold thru repetition, and while you may have trained yourself to use the pad of your finger to release the mechanism, you have trained yourself all your life to use the TIP of your finger to push buttons when you really want them pushed.

Therefore you will typically revert to what you know best, and you will press the hell out of that button with the TIP of your finger. Combine that with the quick drawstroke and you have a reciepe for disaster...

[krispos42]

40. It's all good in theory...

...and then in reality the system goes all Murphy.

[Abq_Sarah]

47. Have you ever used a Serpa?

Seriously, there's a difference between the theoretical and reality. The reality is you'd have to seriously screw up to hit the trigger before you clear the holster. That's true with any brand of holster.

[AzWorker]

49. Used one? yes

when they first came out we were given some of the first ones.

In one day I saw an ND just like the OPs video, it was (luckily) a Glock w/ sims during a force on force drill, AND I saw the mechanism lock up due to dirt getting behind the mechanism during some FOF 'hands on'...

That was all I needed to see, BHI was informed and they said they had not heard of any issues, we later found out that they had been informed of similar instances prior to ours.

Many top industry instructors ban the SERPA from use during their classes

To those that feel it works for them, thats great, I hope it continues to do so.

I think 'SERPA' is Swahili for 'scorpion'...... because someday that sucker is gonna sting ya.

[Abq_Sarah]

51. If an instructor can't teach

Students how to keep their damned trigger finger OFF the trigger before it's cleared the holster, they need to rethink their line of work. I spend a lot of time on drawing drills because it's given short shrift by so many instructors, yet it's a critical skill.

I like Serpas specifically because it forces the student to have their index finger in the proper position in a draw, regardless of the holster being used.

As for the dirt issue, I can see where that would be a problem in a situation where someone is literally rolling in the dirt but for general use, if you keep your equipment clean, it's not a problem. I live in NM where during drought conditions you can literally write your name on flat surfaces indoors unless you dust every single day and I still manage to keep my holsters clean and in good working order.

[AzWorker]

52. "As for the dirt issue........."

"As for the dirt issue, I can see where that would be a problem in a situation where someone is literally rolling in the dirt but for general use, if you keep your equipment clean, it's not a problem."

Sarah, why do you carry a firearm and train in it's use? Is it for purposes of self defense?

If so, do you honestly feel you are going to be able to dictate the circumstances of a lethal force encounter? There may be plenty of 'rolling in the dirt', or snow for that matter (another known SERPA problem), before you even have the opportunity to get your self defense tool out of the holster.

I hope you never find yourself in a a use of force situation, but if you do, hopefully it is of the 'general use' type you spoke of....

[oneshooter]

55. Leather holsters and steel pistols, no plastic needed. n/t

[PavePusher]

57. Luddite.....

:hi: :pals:

[gejohnston]

63. I can relate to him

A kind of old Mauser Hsc was my first step beyond single action revolvers. Now I have a Walter P-22.

[47of74]

59. "I just (bleep)ing shot myself!"

Steph and her mooks have found some new entertainment!

[Endangered Specie]

60. Wait, this is supposed to only happen with glocks!