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MyrnaLoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 06:16 PM Original message |
Ready, aim, misfire |
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Riftaxe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 06:27 PM Response to Original message |
1. Would Jay walking be included |
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gejohnston (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 06:29 PM Response to Original message |
2. Charges or convictions? |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:11 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. Some people are guilty until proven innocent. Or even after being proven innocent. n/t |
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Tejas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
4. What on earth is a "county gun board"? n/t |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:57 PM Response to Reply #4 |
11. Looks like a review board that handles revocations and reinstatements? (n/t) |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:47 PM Response to Original message |
5. And this is evidence of.... what, exactly? n/t |
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MyrnaLoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:19 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. I could provide a |
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gejohnston (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:26 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. How many carry permit holders were there in |
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eqfan592 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:29 PM Original message |
Guilty until proven innocent is your game now, eh? |
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RSillsbee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:29 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. It's almost a given that you will be arrested |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:56 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. For perspective, 1005 charges out of 272,000 CCW holders is about 365 per 100,000. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:18 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. You just *had* to go and harsh the mellow by doing verifiable research, didn't you? |
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MyrnaLoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:04 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. actually even |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:15 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Incorrect. |
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MyrnaLoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:48 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. you have seen this right? |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 12:18 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. The Question, a final time (because it's already been asked of you)... |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 01:17 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. Yes; it says "charges," not "convictions" |
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eqfan592 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 08:41 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. You do understand the difference between the 'total number'... |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:58 AM Response to Reply #23 |
30. Yeah, I can see that it says 'charges' twice, no mention of convictions. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:43 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. Others have pointed out to you the difference between 'rate' and 'total number',.... |
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one-eyed fat man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:46 AM Response to Reply #18 |
29. Calling bullshit! |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:06 PM Response to Reply #29 |
58. Wow! Shades of the Goddess of Truth and Beauty, AKA Her Sophistry. |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:27 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. It's pretty well know legal CCer's are a pretty honest, trustworthy bunch. |
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Atypical Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 01:59 PM Response to Reply #10 |
36. Have an up-vote. |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 11:45 AM Response to Reply #6 |
62. Arrested for what? And that's a six-year span of CCW expansion... |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 08:33 PM Response to Original message |
9. So he can't conceal carry in prison now? or can he? |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:35 PM Response to Original message |
14. Didn't Michigan only allow CCW 10 years ago? |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:42 PM Response to Original message |
15. Misfire? Yep, looks like you shot yourself in the foot - again. |
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eqfan592 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:49 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. Yeah, he/she seems to be great at doing that to his/her self. :P nt |
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MyrnaLoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:08 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. really? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:17 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:36 AM Response to Reply #19 |
28. Deleted message |
SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #19 |
63. And that old 78 just keeps on skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, skip-, |
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MicaelS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:08 PM Response to Original message |
17. What's the Conviction rate per 100,000? |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:11 AM Response to Reply #17 |
31. Need to compare to those in general public who could qualify for a permit, but choose not to tote. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:39 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. Your last sentence is simply untrue, Hoyt. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #33 |
39. I know the states provide inaccurate info. But, I doubt prosecutors, etc., forward it to the agency. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. I can't speak for Michigan, but what evidence do you have that FL and TX do so? |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:13 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. Go ask prosecutors, judges, etc., if they always send info to whatever agency handles it. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:26 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. It's the same agency, |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:46 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. He might even provide some evidence beyond "Because I said so, that's why" |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 04:31 PM Response to Reply #46 |
48. Here's some evidence that you too could find if you really cared to look for the truth. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 04:40 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. That article said 1,400 of 410,000 permit holders were legally DQ'd. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 05:04 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Shows it happens, you just can't admit it. And we don't know how many the newspaper missed. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 05:16 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Than prove it. Even the article *you* linked to gave CCW holders better-than-average records. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 06:00 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. In that case they are a felon with an illegal gun. They aren't a CCWer. N/T |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 08:54 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. No, they are someone with a permit because the system doesn't work like you want us to believe. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:36 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. If they have been DQed due to felony then the permit has been yanked. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 05:53 PM Response to Reply #48 |
54. What does that have to do with Texas? |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:49 PM Response to Reply #42 |
47. "I suspect...". A faith-based argument, in other words. |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:16 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. No, I'm saying most non-carriers who could qualify for permit are like me. Just as law abiding as |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:33 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. See Glassunion's reply #36 just below. n/t |
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Hoyt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 04:33 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. XD, you guys have been around too much lead. |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 05:48 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. So you can't refute any of it? |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 05:56 PM Response to Reply #39 |
55. The Texas stats are based on convictions and the state keeps accurate records of convictions. N/T |
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Glassunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 01:01 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. I agree that you cannot compare rates for the General Population which includes convicted felons. |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #31 |
38. Texas reports annual conviction data, including what the offences were. |
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Glassunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:57 PM Response to Reply #31 |
64. Got you some Michigan data... |
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Remmah2 (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 08:39 AM Response to Original message |
26. Sounds like a political agenda coupled with media hype. |
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Glassunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:18 AM Response to Original message |
32. There are issues with the data. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 12:03 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Heh, misfire indeed. |
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Atypical Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:13 PM Response to Original message |
37. So in other words, in spite of more stringent reporting... |
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Euromutt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:50 PM Response to Original message |
40. Incidentally, did you read the last few paragraphs of that article? |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 01:34 AM Response to Original message |
60. Someone seems to have abandoned this thread. I wonder why? |
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Katya Mullethov (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 06:44 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. A spike in spankings |
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Glassunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 03:58 PM Response to Original message |
65. Got you some more detailed info on that chart. |
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Hoopla Phil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-15-11 09:21 AM Response to Reply #65 |
66. THAT, would seem to put a final nail in the coffin of this facade. |
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Glassunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-15-11 10:14 AM Response to Reply #66 |
67. I am however upset at the shear volume of driving under the influence charges... |
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