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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:14 PM Original message |
D.C. Council poised to reject gun bill |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:16 PM Response to Original message |
1. I just love it when people think DC should be treated as a colony. n/t |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:20 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. If Arizona sets up a state church, it should be treated "like a colony" too. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:29 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Then go to the Supreme Court and challenge DC's gun control laws. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 08:29 PM Response to Reply #5 |
19. "Don't give Congress... even more latitude to mess with DC's business." |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:22 PM Response to Reply #19 |
20. Constitutional text is not the only thing that matters. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:43 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. The Constitution sets our political and democratic norms under the law. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:27 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. The Constitution does not express the sum total of political justice. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:48 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. I reject your premises on two counts. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:55 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. That's a Fourteenth Amendment Sec. 5 argument. And I am okay with it. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:02 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Not with respect to DC it isn't my argument. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:11 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. Actually, it pretty much does mean that. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:26 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. The Bill of Rights is a logical and natural boundary. |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:23 PM Response to Reply #27 |
42. D.C. has a "right" to determine their own laws -- if they are constitutional. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:48 PM Response to Reply #5 |
23. Already done, and won. District of Columbia versus Heller. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:08 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. I'm not sure what your point is. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:17 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. My point is that DC lawmakers are attempting to game the system. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:38 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. I think the people of Wyoming have the right to govern themselves. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:42 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. And I think that the constitution is not a cafeteria menu. You don't get to pick and choose. |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 10:55 PM Response to Reply #28 |
31. What possible basis could Federal Courts have to resist Congress exercising its |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:01 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. The difficulty is over the meaning of "enforce." |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:07 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Ah. A more cynical person might say that the real "principle" is protecting their turf as |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 11:12 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. You are not the first to make that point. There is probably something to it. n/t |
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tortoise1956 (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:13 AM Response to Reply #28 |
40. I have to agree with some of your argument... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:11 PM Response to Reply #2 |
8. Deleted message |
friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:42 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. I note that the *entire* court agreed that the 2A protected an individual right... |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 08:04 PM Response to Reply #8 |
18. Do you have any objective, historically and legally valid reason to conclude that the decision was |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:22 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. That's what we traditionally do to parts of the country which can't obey the constitution. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:33 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. The South actually seceded. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:51 PM Response to Reply #7 |
24. And nobody has sent General Sherman into DC. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:25 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. DC brought that on themselves, at least as far as the firearms issue goes. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. They made no such argument in Heller. |
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friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:20 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. They most certainly did. Page 35, here (*.pdf file): |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:30 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Page 35 in the document's numbering, page 54 in the pdf (to clarify.) n/t |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 04:21 PM Response to Reply #10 |
15. That's the exact OPPOSITE of the argument you claimed they made. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:12 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Deleted message |
friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:23 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Are you claiming that DC did not argue that the 2A did not apply there? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 07:07 PM Response to Reply #1 |
17. It should be treated as the founders intended |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 09:25 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. No, it shouldn't. The Founders were not perfect and they did not anticipate everything. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 11:23 AM Response to Reply #21 |
41. Then the correct process is to Amend the Constitution. |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:38 PM Response to Reply #21 |
43. If D.C. were considered de facto a state, the job is easier... |
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TPaine7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 01:44 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. A caveat |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 02:06 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. I agree. My response was a hypothetical, since the status of D.C.... |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 03:25 PM Response to Original message |
12. Why not get into the business or selling fast food also. |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-13-11 04:52 PM Response to Original message |
16. Why would the PTB want to deny their citizens/voters the right to a basic civil right? |
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GreenStormCloud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:04 AM Response to Original message |
39. Instead of getting an FFL the city should let private business do it. N/T |
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SteveM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-14-11 12:48 PM Response to Original message |
44. Beware your own heat-seeking missle... |
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