Arizona gun sales on record pace

[drpepper67]

http://ktar.com/category/local-news-articles/20110715/Arizona-gun-sales-on-record-pace

Gun makers should send the President a Thank You note....

The Arizona Republic reports that nearly 125,000 people went through federal background checks in the first six months of 2011. That puts the state on track to exceed the record of more than 215,000 background checks in 2009.

Some of the reasons for rising demand are ability to carry a concealed weapon without a permit in Arizona, general apprehension and lingering concerns that the Obama administration could crack down on gun ownership.

[ileus]

1. Several nice sub-compact 9's have come out this year.

[geckosfeet]

3. Just range tested a Walther P99c AS. Not new this year, but in MA options are limited.

[drpepper67]

8. Tell me more...

[Lurks Often]

14. The Kahr PM9 is quite good

very reliable and very accurate for something so small. I can get consistent hits out to 50 yards with it. Fits into the back pocket of a pair of shorts or jeans.

[geckosfeet]

2. A gunsmith I know said the same thing - "Obama is the best thing that

ever happened to his business".

Not sure how he connected a booming business with Obama but he did. I think the press and the NRA has done a good job making sure that everyone thinks he is some kind of gun grabbing politician. As far as I can see, all evidence is to the contrary. And I live in MA - not a particularly gun friendly state.

I know, Obama has said a few things that on the face of it sounds like pandering to the gun control lobby. But despite all the nonsense around this issue, I still think that actions speak much louder than words, especially when the words are coming from a politician.

on edit - Just read some of the comments to that piece. Pretty sad state of affairs.

[PavePusher]

4. These dots.... they are easy to connect.

A president, who had a political history of promoting strict "gun control", who ran on a party platform of more of the same, and you are "Not sure how he connected a booming business with Obama..."? Coupled with a lot of vaguely worded hints at additional gun control, and no public statements against government agents who abused their authority and vested responsibility in controlling the flow of guns to criminals...

Seriously?

Wow....

[geckosfeet]

6. Seriously. I said words are cheap. Look at what he has done. Nothing.

Except grow the gun industry by about 200% in the last two years.

So take a hike pavepusher. I don't buy what you are selling.

[PavePusher]

9. Not selling anything, nor saying I am buying it myself.

Simply stating the reality that has formed some people's perceptions. Just because you disagree with the conclusion doesn't mean that the historical facts are any less real, or that they are near tailor-made to shape a certain reaction in some.

Myself, I remain cautiously optimistic, with the realizations that politicians lie by reflex and will say whatever it takes to get re-elected, but mostly fail to follow up on their pronouncements.

"Trust, but verify", to borrow perhaps the most accurate republi-quote ever.


P.S. A hike sounds good, I need to get up on the mountain and away from the 106 deg.s today....

[geckosfeet]

27. Yea.

Going to clean my guns after a good trip to the range.

Have a good one.

[SteveM]

81. Obama is so relentlessly centrist, I don't really think he would venture...

into gun politics. And he certainly isn't stupid.

You have a point about MSM. It remains the strongest (and I would argue the ONLY) effective element in the gun-control "movement," and I am sure it had hopes Obama would continue the battle for bans, right up to the time the helicopters left the rooftop. He didn't, but the rattling hopes of the press made him seem an activist on the subject. Hint to MSM: Obama is not much of an activist.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

7. How do you account for blacks that are buying guns? NT

[east texas lib]

10. Corked his pistol!

Zing!:o

[RSillsbee]

18. Not really, he'll just pretend I never said it

and post the same bullshit meme in another thread

[slackmaster]

25. Black people are buying guns because the President is half white

:dunce:

[RSillsbee]

35. Fear of an Irish President

You know if he's Catholic the Pope could be running America.

[spin]

11. I seriously do not believe that Obama's skin color makes people run out and buy guns ...

I do believe the fact that the NRA has successfully portrayed him as a liberal who supports draconian gun control has been part of the reason. While he has in no way pushed a strong gun control agenda, he does make comments like “I’m working on gun control under the radar” (source: http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=9614) You have to admit that many Democrats and gun control groups are fairly upset that he hasn't supported gun registration, bans or schemes like micro stamping ammo. There are always rumors of the administration and Democrats in Congress pushing to enact another assault weapons ban.

One other driver in the increase in gun sales have been the fact that a number of new lighter and far more compact handguns have recently hit the market and appeal to people who legally carry concealed. The .380 Ruger LCP is one example.



My son in law wanted one of these as it would be easier to carry than his Glock 27 .40 caliber pistol. I bought it for him as a birthday present.

Also many sportsmen have discovered the accuracy and the versatility of AR style rifles and they are hot sellers in the gun stores.



More and more women have discovered the enjoyment of shooting in recent years and many have decided to get carry permits. That's why there is now a market for colorful pistols and rifles.

[Hoyt]

13. Manufacturers know gun porn sells.

[spin]

24. Car manufacturers know car porn sells ...

[Euromutt]

41. Oh wait, there were *cars* in those photos?

I missed them on the first pass, somehow...

There are a couple of firearms manufacturers/importers who pull that kind of thing in their advertising, notably Kahr and EAA, and to be honest, it mostly annoys me.

[SteveM]

82. I wonder what kind of "accessory" my 94 GMC Safari Van would rate?

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. ...and the Savonarola schtick doesn't. Hard cheese for you, eh? n/t

[ileus]

15. My wife want's pink funiture for her AR...nothing to do with the NRA or Stag.

Everything to do with her being a female.

[gravity556]

92. Pink AR

My wife's is purple. Built it for her for Christmas a few years back. She loves it.

[RSillsbee]

20. I'd preffer an M14 ( No, I did NOT mean M1A)

but if I have to have an AR I'd rather an AR10

[Hoyt]

12. More we're gonna "take our country back" BS from right wingers in Az, or Loughner wannabees.

[ileus]

16. IF the new CC law is the driver of these sales, it has nothing to do with

taking a country back, and everything to do with the people not being intimidated by laws prohibiting them from exercising their freedoms anymore. You don't take countries back with 380's 9mm's or 45's...

[Hoyt]

17. Tell that to Tbaggers who carry guns to intimidate.

[ileus]

19. No one trys to intimidate anyone....how could that be accomplished with a firearm anyway?

People exercising a right aren't trying to intimidate anyone....how can one be intimidated with firearms in public? No one is drawing or pointing them at anyone else.

Firearms are for self defense, hunting, plinking....intimidation is something Coaches and Drill sargents do.

[Hoyt]

32. That's what all the Tbag carriers say.

[ileus]

39. They're not going to lie to make you happy...

[SteveM]

83. Hmmm... been talking to quite a few lately?

[RSillsbee]

21. What about Tbaggers that DON'T carry to intimidate?

Not everyone pees their pants and runs ,screaming, like a little girl just because they see a gun Hoyt.

[ileus]

22. OC and CC are for one reason no matter who does it....Self Defense.

[RSillsbee]

23. No, there are a FEW assholes out there who DO carry to intimidate

but not nearly as many as Hoyt thinks. He assumes that because he's intimidated everyone is and that's why people carry

[oneshooter]

26. He is intimidated by something he can not see, smell , or hear...

And he claimes that CHL holders are scared?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[PavePusher]

28. Irony must be nutritious....

Anti's seem to practicaly choke themselves on the stuff.

[Hoyt]

31. Oshot -- I can walk down the street without a gun, can you?

[oneshooter]

33. Sure I can, do it all the time. Can you walk down the street armed?

Or are you to afraid to take the test,and possably fail, to get a CHL.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

34. Not really my style. Nor do I think it is necessary/desirable in today's society.

[gejohnston]

38. besides technology and a few social mores,

how is today's society different than yesterday's society?

[oneshooter]

53. Why is that? Are you immune from crime? n/t

[Hoyt]

30. Oh, the "pee the pants" junk again from someone who can't leave home without a gun or two.

[RSillsbee]

36. I generally only carry one gun Hoyt

and I havehad to use it. Why do you want to deny me that option?

[Hoyt]

43. Don't take it personal- law should deny it for almost everyone who can't demonstrate rational need

to strap a gun or two to their body and walk into our parks, public restaurants, etc.

[Tejas]

44. Here's someone who probably got denied on the "rational need".

[Hoyt]

45. She looks pretty safe to me. I could show you a photo of some "cowboy" with two guns poking out.

I'll take the lady above to someone who has put in hours shooting at silhouette targets and other such "defense" junk.

[Tejas]

46. Well, if she's your idea of a "first responder", then

good luck, you'll need it.

[Hoyt]

47. Some amateur with a gun in his pants is not my idea of a first responder either.

Besides, for all you know that woman had been on duty for 24 hours. Besides, she looks more like a parking officer, or park guard, than a "first responder."

[ileus]

49. Then we can assume there should be a LEO assigned to everyone?

[Hoyt]

51. The vast majority of us have done fine in public without a gun, or LEO assigned to us.

[ileus]

59. Safety first...that's why we carry. It's a chance you don't have to take.

[X_Digger]

61. And the majority rules, right, Hoyt? If the majority wanted segregation back.. right? n/t

[Hoyt]

62. Your love of guns is not comparable to the civil rights movement of 1950/60s.

Not even close.

[X_Digger]

64. Nice dodge.

Care to answer the question?

Should rights be predicated on popular support?

[SteveM]

85. Not "compable," just a part of it. You do remember Jim Crow laws...

...that applied to blacks who wanted guns.

[Tejas]

57. parking officer? park guard? Then what is she doing with a gun?

What, is she just some form of "backup"? Here's a gun, we'll call you and wake you up if we need you.

[ileus]

48. and two guns "poking" out is bothersome in what way?

[PavePusher]

52. "Tacky!"

It apparently offends his sense of fashion.

[ileus]

60. Not if it's 1911's and not plastic fantastic fad guns. :)

[oneshooter]

55. " I could show you a photo of some "cowboy" with two guns poking out."

Shure you can. Lets call your bluff. DO IT!! Enough of your talk, proove that you can do it.
Or be known as a liar.

And shut the fuck up.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[oneshooter]

58. Come on Hoyt, lets see the damn picture!!! n/t

[Hoyt]

63. Look in mirror before leaving home.

[oneshooter]

65. Lets see the picture, or shut the fuck up. COWARD. n/t

[Hoyt]

66. With that anger issue, you really shouldn't pack. Do you honestly think some gunners don't carry 2.

As to "coward" -- I don't even think about grabbing a gun when I leave home. I bet you grab one, maybe two.

[oneshooter]

67. You are a coward, you said you could show us a picture, were called out on it

And failed to do it. That strikes me as a person who will lie to anyone. Or as a coward who is afraid of something they can not see, hear, or smell. So cower down in your little hole, and leave the serious discussion to those who know, not just "feel it is bad".


Your mother is calling you to supper, so scamper back up the stairs like a good little boy.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

68. LMAO -- never seen a guy break down over a forum post that simply made a point.

Since you seem to have some fixation on seeing someone with two guns, I'd suggest an internet search -- there are plenty of them from stick drawings, to actual guys with two. You can probably find photos of folks with 3 or more guns.

And like I said, I bet you've carried two -- so you know I'm right.

[DonP]

69. Not a "point" - it's called a lie

[oneshooter]

88. " I could show you a photo of some "cowboy" with two guns poking out."

Your post. I called you on it. You ran, like a little girl, peeing your pants.

You were asked to provide proof of your post.

Put up, or shut up.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Katya Mullethov]

94. I cant see the guns

But this dude carried a brace of pistols .
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/10/051011-news-judge-drugs-stripper-1-3/
The ultimate outcome is just one more thing , amongst all those other little things that we see happen along the way , that make us who we are .

[Euromutt]

75. Don't you just love people who go out of their way to get others' backs up...

...and then behave as if the fact that the other person gets irritated is evidence of a character flaw on that person's part? There's a reason people make t-shirts with the phrase "I don't need anger management; you need to stop being an asshole."

[SteveM]

86. I think the mods call it "disruption." I call it punking.

[ileus]

50. Who makes that decision? Brady group? Government Judge? Republican Sheriff? Street Thug?

[beevul]

54. The words are "keep and bear", hoyt.

As in the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear.


Its those seeking to infringe that which shall not be infringed, that need show a compelling need.


Someday, if you ever become intellectually mature, you'll figure it out, instead of getting it backwards.

[Hoyt]

70. Read the entire 2A. Plus, even if you were right -- there are things legal that one should avoid.

Guns are one of those.

[beevul]

76. Oh I DO read the entire thing.

The thing is, I actually understand what it means.


You, from what I can see, simply deny it.

As far as "things legal that one should avoid", ignorant exercise of freedom of speech, which you've given such an "eloquent" example of, is one of them.

Are you interested in putting your money where your mouth is and actually avoiding it?

Or does that only apply to guns - which would make you a hypocrit.

[NewMoonTherian]

73. That's the problem.

I don't trust anyone else to determine whether I have a rational need. No one else knows what factors influence my decisions, and no one else has the standing to legitimately make that judgment.

[SteveM]

84. Da thug gotta "rational need:" It's his bidness, and he won't be interfered with.

[Euromutt]

56. Considering your constant obsessing over how "guns pollute society" and similar language...

...I think we might reasonably think your behavior resembles that of any noted homophobic televangelist who is almost inevitably later caught with a rent boy's cock in his mouth.

[Hoyt]

71. Thanks for posting that. Guns do pollute society. So do your posts.

[Euromutt]

74. If by "pollute society" you mean "are something you personally dislike," then yes

To be blunt, this schtick of yours where you pretend your personal irrational dislike of things is somehow a problem that affects society has become a little tiresome. Why don't you try entertaining the possibility that the world doesn't revolve around around you, and that your personal likes and dislikes are not--and frankly, should not be--the determinants of social policy?

You keep using the phrase "pollutes society" as if that's supposed to mean something, but you seem to have forgotten that the only reason you've resorted to using it in the first place is because you know you can't demonstrate that concealed carry by private citizens present a hazard to public health and safety. So contrived moral outrage is all you have to fall back on, and because you know that's a really shitty argument, you have to pretend that your views are somehow representative of an overwhelming majority of the country, or indeed, humanity. But even if that were true--which it's not--it would still be an argumentum ad numerum/populum.

So when you say "guns pollute society" what you mean is "guns offend me, personally." Well, frankly, nobody is under any obligation to give a flying fuck about whether something offends you, much less defer to it. So why don't you get a stepladder and get the fuck over yourself already?

[beevul]

77. Well, at least we know where he gets his talking points - and thereby who he shills for.

http://www.utne.com/2008-12-05/Politics/What-If-Gun-Violence-Were-Treated-Like-Pollution.aspx

[Euromutt]

78. Ah, the usual bullshit analogy that can only be sustained by a quick "bait and switch"

The "bait" being this:

Instead, imagine a new approach: What if illegal guns were treated like pollution and gun violence like a public health problem?

Notice how here, it talks about "illegal guns" and "gun violence"? By within a couple of paragraphs you get a quote from Stephen Teret (whose name ranks with Kellerman, Hemenway and Wintemute in consistently producing the conclusion that Guns Are Bad), “The loading docks of the gun manufacturers are the point sources of this pollution.”

Suddenly, we're not talking about illegal guns and gun violence, we're just talking about guns, without regard to the fact that it takes human agency to pick up and load a gun, aim it at another and fire it. There's the "switch."

Let's take the analogy and apply it to, say, a manufacturer of cans of spray paint. Spray paint has legitimate uses, but certain individuals "divert" cans and use them to cover entire zip codes with stupid, aesthetically unpleasing "tags." You can point to the manufacturer's loading docks as "the point source" of the graffiti, but in doing so, you're willfully ignoring the role played by the taggers in producing the unsightly graffiti. In effect, you're giving them a pass, even though they are the actual agents of the problem.

By Teret's "logic," we could--and should--consider the womb of every woman who's ever given birth to a baby who grew up to be a straw purchaser, gunrunner or violent criminal (or tagger) to be "point sources of this pollution." Maybe we ought to regulate (read: restrict) the ability of lower-income women to have children. For some reason, I doubt you'll be hearing or reading Teret advocating that, even though it makes at least as much sense as fingering gun manufacturers as the "point source" for gun violence.

[beevul]

79. Its just funny, in'it?

I knew I had heard that "pollution" bit before.


It didn't occur to me right away, but after seeing it a few times, it came back to me.

Of course...the poster in question owns guns - or at least claims to - and thereby would be a polluter as well, if one is to believe both his words and his screed.

And of course, that would make him some kind of hypocrit wouldn't it?

Its all just so comical.

And predictable.

A poster that claims to own guns, spouting verified bonafide antigun talking points.

Whodathunkit.

[oneshooter]

89. Yet you claim to own them. Hypocrite!!! n/t

[gejohnston]

72. Hoyt a closet CCW?

who really carries two FN five-sevens in shoulder holsters, a .38 in an ankle holster and and even has pen gun in his pocket protector (Hoyt, the pen gun needs to be registered).

The cowboy in the mirror meme?

Here is Hoyt taking third place at a quick draw championship in Alberta.

[eqfan592]

80. 3rd place isn't half bad...

...but first place is still his ultimate dream. ;)

[Euromutt]

90. Not quite what I intended to suggest

Though I see my post could be read that way.

Call me cynical, but I'm inherently distrustful of people who call for some activity to be restricted, not because it actually "picks anyone's pocket or breaks anyone's leg" (to paraphrase Jefferson) but because it supposedly threatens the moral fiber of society. I think that, very frequently, there's an element involved of the exhorting party secretly wishing he could engage in the activity in question, or do so openly, but because personal circumstances preclude it, he's decided nobody else is going to get to do it either. Or, at least, get to do it without having to be surreptitious and feel guilty.

Personally, I think Hoyt is a teenager living in his parents' basement, and he's secretly fascinated by guns and thinks they're kind of cool, but he's legally prohibited from acquiring them and so he whips himself into a faux outrage so he can feel morally superior to the people who can.

[gejohnston]

91. Yeah, but I like my image better though but

I'll change the FNs in holsters to a couple of single action revolvers in the waistband.

That said, if a story of a student's pen gun going off in a Georgia high school, would both of us be right?


:toast: :tv: :radio:

[SteveM]

87. "pollution" is the watchword for most prohibitionists.

[one-eyed fat man]

93. Pay attention

Eleanor Roosevelt shoots pistol at Chazy Lake, New York (1934).

She also has a quote which applies directly to you.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

[Ragnarok]

29. Not sure there's any one thing...

...driving up sales specifically. I know the massive spread of CCW laws helps. I know vague threats and innuendo coming from various government officials certainly has effect. I'm set on guns myself, but I worry about ammo, especially with recent rulings by the ATF that calibers like .223/5.56mm are now classified as pistol calibers. (The rationale is because there are AR-15's and AK's like the Draco and Carbon-15 pistols which use a received configured without any stock at all) Sneaky crap like that doesn't breed much trust. People know there is murky shit going on behind the scene and they don't want to get caught on the ground again. Heck, I believe if my party will sell me out on SS or Medicare they'd have NO problem selling me out on 2A rights.

Of course, there's no real way they could physically confiscate the millions of guns in circulation en masse and they know this. There'd be a "rifle behind every blade of grass" if they came up here looking to steal our property. Denying your enemy resources seems to be the new tactic. They can win through attrition by knocking out a few types, configurations, etc... every year. Everyone is waiting on the Saiga 12 thing and those were pulling $1600 a piece a short while ago. Maybe next week it will be Glocks or "foreign guns of military caliber" which could potentially cover a lot of ground. This attrition war on the 2nd Amendment is why many are so staunch on giving no quarter and no compromise in gun rights debates. We resist, as we should resist, the same as we should with SS and Medicare - no cuts, no deals, no quarter. Once they know that you will bend, they'll keep pushing.

The whole gun ban thing in the 1990's poisoned the Dem party for a TON of impressionable "normal" people. I myself ran Libertarian until 2003 when the damn ban finally died. It's good to see that this distrust is finally starting to pass almost 2 decades later. Still, any little smart ass comment by our party on gun control is enough to drive up sales because a LOT of people remember $120 each pistol magazines and $3000 pre-ban AR-15's. They likely won't be very nice to us next time around (I personally won't be very nice) and I would guess there would be quite a bit of passive and active resistance, and much civil and not-so-civil disobedience the next time we attempt it.

[ileus]

40. Excellent post....

[gejohnston]

37. The President or Brownie?

IIRC, the buying spike started after Katrina. How does AZ compare, per capita, to say, VT or WY? Or MA for that matter.